[Spoilers] What is Anima supposed to be?

[Bwonsamdi the Dead]

I really like her, as you can probably see with my name. (I've Cosplayed her, made paintings of her, and am even wanting to get a small tattoo of her in the future) But one thing that I just don't get is her appearance. What is she? I get that she's supposed to look creepy, but is she based on anything from other works of Pop Culture?

[Raemnant]

If you may remember, when you go to Baaj temple, Seymours mother asks you to stop Seymour, and gives her power to you. Thats why you can summon Anima. And how do you know none of the traits of a Final Aeon exists in Anima? We never see Seymour fight Sin! Anima has an ability that kills every normal fiend OHKO. Seems legit. Also, you cant use RPG mechanics to justify a plot device. Of course Yunas Anima is stronger, you can level Yuna up and increase Animas stats and what not. Its an RPG, its what you do.

[Hinnyuu]

Raemnant の投稿を引用：

If you may remember, when you go to Baaj temple, Seymours mother asks you to stop Seymour, and gives her power to you.

Which for all we know might just be exactly how regular aeons work. Yunalesca stresses how important the special bond of the final aeon is, are you suggesting that it's as easy as wanting to defeat Sin really really badly? Even if it's a summoner you have never met before today? That doesn't sound special. At all.

Raemnant の投稿を引用：

And how do you know none of the traits of a Final Aeon exists in Anima? We never see Seymour fight Sin!

My point exactly. It's not a final aeon unless you actually use it to fight Sin. If you don't do that, it's just a regular ol' aeon.

Raemnant の投稿を引用：

Anima has an ability that kills every normal fiend OHKO. Seems legit. Also, you cant use RPG mechanics to justify a plot device. Of course Yunas Anima is stronger, you can level Yuna up and increase Animas stats and what not. Its an RPG, its what you do.

Aren't you contradicting yourself there? If RPG mechanics don't matter, then Anima's OHKO is irrelevant; if they do, the strongest Aeon is Yojimbo, because Zanmatou kills everything. So either power based in mechanics is relevant, in which case Yuna's Anima is much stronger than Seymour's, or it's not, in which case we're still left with the question of how Yuna can obtain Semour's final aeon if the trick behind is a special bond. Wouldn't it be easy to just make every aeon a "final aeon" then, if you can just give that power to other summoners as you like? In which case... if every aeon is a final aeon, then what is a regular aeon? Are they all SOMEONE'S "final aeon"?

[Raemnant]

You literally see Anima use Pain on an entire colluseum filled with fiends.....Thats not the same as RPG mechanics, thats a cutscene my friend

[Hinnyuu]

Raemnant の投稿を引用：

You literally see Anima use Pain on an entire colluseum filled with fiends.....Thats not the same as RPG mechanics, thats a cutscene my friend

So because Anima happens to be in a cutscene, its abilities are relevant - and because other aeons are not (aside from Valefor), their abilities don't factor in at all? So how do you know Anima is more powerful than others, if you can't see them do anything? Aren't you comparing a cutscene ability to in-game abilities here? Or are you saying that because you don't see other aeons do anything in a cutscene, their power is, for all intents and purposes, effectively zero? Sounds like a bit of a biased assertion to me.

[Raemnant]

The point flew completely over your head. Thats impressive. You claimed that Yunas Anima is stronger, but the only thing you have to back that up is that we can raise its stats. By that logic, our Anima is horrendously weak, because I just made a file where I never used Yuna, so Anima is sitting at horrid base stats. You see what I mean? Pain in the cutscene does the same thing as Pain in the game, kills enemies with one hit. Thats why its relevant, because it doesnt change from RPG mechanic to actual story lore. Its the same argument with Pokemon and starting from a town that isnt Pallet Town. You dont use game mechanics to justify lore

[Hinnyuu]

Raemnant の投稿を引用：

The point flew completely over your head. Thats impressive. You claimed that Yunas Anima is stronger, but the only thing you have to back that up is that we can raise its stats. By that logic, our Anima is horrendously weak, because I just made a file where I never used Yuna, so Anima is sitting at horrid base stats. You see what I mean?

I don't, not really. Isn't the canonical reason for the entire pilgrimage literally to make the summoner and aeons stronger? And aren't you tested on that on numerous occasions? How is it 'just an RPG mechanic' when it's LITERALLY the impetus for the story?

Raemnant の投稿を引用：

Pain in the cutscene does the same thing as Pain in the game, kills enemies with one hit. Thats why its relevant, because it doesnt change from RPG mechanic to actual story lore.

But Anima is the only aeon we ever see attack anything. You're saying its mechanic doesn't change, yet somehow assume that all the OTHER aeon's abilities are somehow different between "game" and "story"? Why?

[Serafie1999AD]

Hinnyuu の投稿を引用：

True enough, however that doesn't explain how Yuna is able to summon Anima. She has no special bond with Seymour's mother whatsoever (well, aside from the general desire to defeat Sin, which I'm sure she also shares with any of the other fayth). And, of course, her Anima is, ultimately, much stronger than Seymour's despite there being no special bond - which, surprise surprise, is exactly how regular aeons work, too.

Yuna can summon Anima the same way she can summon Valefor, Shiva and other Aeons: the corresponding Fayth gave her the Aeon. No, she does not have a special bond with Seymour's mother, which is why Anima is not Yuna's Final Aeon (as I said, she's Seymour's Final Aeon), and Yuna can't use her for defeating Sin. To Seymour, she's a Final Aeon, and to Yuna, she's just a regular Aeon (an especially powerful one, though).

How do you know Yuna's Anima is stronger than Seymour's? In the battle at the Luca stadium, Yuna's awe-struck about how powerful Seymour's Anima is. That's one of the few story scenes where Aeons show their power (other being at Bevelle, when Yuna summons Valefor to escape). Otherwise, you don't see Aeons displaying their powers, except what the battle system lets you do.

Hinnyuu の投稿を引用：

Wouldn't it be easy to just make every aeon a "final aeon" then, if you can just give that power to other summoners as you like?

No, because person A's Final Aeon doesn't mean the Aeon is person B's Final Aeon. Let me make an artificial example. Braska sacrificed his dear friend Jecht to obtain the Final Summoning, and with the bond between Braska and Jecht, Braska's Final Aeon defeated Sin. However, suppose a hypothetical situation when Braska didn't decide to summon his Final Aeon after all, but gave him to another summoner, let's say Seymour. Seymour would then obtain a strong Aeon, yes, but he wouldn't succeed in defeating Sin with Braska's Final Aeon, because he doesn't have the same bond as Braska and Jecht have. After all, the Aeon is not Seymour's Final Aeon, but Braska's Final Aeon.

[Hinnyuu]

Serafie1999AD の投稿を引用：

How do you know Yuna's Anima is stronger than Seymour's?

I mean, you literally fight Seymour's Anima and wipe the floor with it. And Seymour is vocal about how impressed he is with that.

Serafie1999AD の投稿を引用：

In the battle at the Luca stadium, Yuna's awe-struck about how powerful Seymour's Anima is. That's one of the few story scenes where Aeons show their power (other being at Bevelle, when Yuna summons Valefor to escape). Otherwise, you don't see Aeons displaying their powers, except what the battle system lets you do.

Excuse me if I don't put too much stock in the awe-struck face of a freshly minted summoner who's literally seen one single temple other than her own and who has always had great reverence for Yevonite officials to begin with :P

It wiped out a few fiends, all of which your guardians also fight successfully (though not all at once, granted); fiends that, I might add, were weak enough to be summoned by the guado in the first place.

Yes, it's the only aeon we see do anything in the "story" part; however what it does there is literally identical to its "game" attack. I find it more reasonable to assume other aeons to work the same, rather than the exact opposite of the one example case we have (since Valefor never attacks when it appears in the cutscenes). In which case, once again, Yojimbo is much more powerful.

[Serafie1999AD]

Hinnyuu の投稿を引用：

In which case, once again, Yojimbo is much more powerful.

See my edit above. I'll also create an example of Yojimbo's case. Let's say the original character was called Yoji, and he has a best friend called Jimbo. If Jimbo was a summoner, went to Zanarkand and chose Yoji to become the Fayth for the Final Summoning, then Jimbo would be able to defeat Sin by summoning Yojimbo, due to the strong bond between Jimbo and Yoji. Here Yojimbo is Jimbo's Final Aeon. However, if someone else obtained the Yojimbo Aeon later, he wouldn't be their Final Aeon, but just a regular Aeon, because they wouldn't have the special bond Jimbo and Yoji had.

[Hinnyuu]

Serafie1999AD の投稿を引用：

See my edit above. I'll also create an example of Yojimbo's case. Let's say the original character was called Yoji, and he has a best friend called Jimbo. If Jimbo was a summoner, went to Zanarkand and chose Yoji to become the Fayth for the Final Summoning, then Jimbo would be able to defeat Sin by summoning Yojimbo, due to the strong bond between Jimbo and Yoji. Here Yojimbo is Jimbo's Final Aeon. However, if someone else obtained the Yojimbo Aeon later, he wouldn't be their Final Aeon, but just a regular Aeon, because they wouldn't have the special bond Jimbo and Yoji had.

That's a reasonable hypothesis, though it blurs the lines between regular and final aeon somewhat and does not explain how Yuna's Anima is stronger than Seymour's.

[Serafie1999AD]

Hinnyuu の投稿を引用：

That's a reasonable hypothesis, though it blurs the lines between regular and final aeon somewhat and does not explain how Yuna's Anima is stronger than Seymour's.

Admittedly, the blurring is a bit of a weakness in that interpretation, as it means the key difference between a regular and a final Aeon is that the summoner has a special bond with the final Aeon since it's someone dear to them who they've sacrificed. Then again, what makes, say, Braska's Final Aeon so much different from regular Aeons? He's just a creature with a sword, and other Aeons can own him in battle.

As for why Yuna's Anima is stronger than Seymour's, I'd just say balance reasons. When you fight Anima, your characters have, what, 1000-2000 HP and Anima does 500 damage per hit? Nobody would ever want to get Anima if she did at most 500 damage as your Aeon. For the same balance reasons, how are you supposed to take down Anima in the boss fight if she was as strong as with a maxed Yuna, doing 99,999 damage with every attack, and 1.6 million damage with an overdrive? I do have a theory, but that is of course just speculation. Seymour's mother wanted her son to save the world and defeat Sin, but when Seymour merely sought power for himself, and even killed his own father, the loving bond between Seymour and his mother was broken, and so the power of Anima diminished greatly from what it originally was. When you obtain Anima, Seymour's mother even tells you to stop her son, so she never agreed with Seymour's lust for power.

[Bwonsamdi the Dead]

Holy Hell!. I woke up and checked this, only to see that I have 37 notifications?! That's incredible! I had no idea just one simple topic could spark a conversation like this! Also, please no fighting, ok?

[Bwonsamdi the Dead]

I think the Anima in Luca was levelled to the point of being able to one-shot those fiends running around the stadium. Or Square just did that to make her look cool and powerful :)

[Bwonsamdi the Dead]

The fact that she's based on something from Roman Catholicism actually surprised me. The first time I heared of her I was basically like 'oh so she's based on Carl Jung's Anima, right?' then I did some digging. Not only that, but she's based on something from Catholicism aswell! That really did wow me.

[Hinnyuu]

The Dark Aeon Anima の投稿を引用：

I think the Anima in Luca was levelled to the point of being able to one-shot those fiends running around the stadium. Or Square just did that to make her look cool and powerful :)

She's using Pain, which does indeed oneshot-kill enemies (that aren't immune to instant death). Also that cinematic is one of my favorites in the game, as is Anima in general. Such amazing design. I could write an entire paper on the iconography.

The Dark Aeon Anima の投稿を引用：

The fact that she's based on something from Roman Catholicism actually surprised me. The first time I heared of her I was basically like 'oh so she's based on Carl Jung's Anima, right?' then I did some digging. Not only that

There's tons of things that "anima" can refer to. And the Japanese often like to dig up the most arcane stuff for their games. A lot of FF characters, items, and enemies are actually based in more or less obscure references. Sometimes those are hard to decipher because of wonky translations, too - if the translators don't get the reference, they more or less have to guess on the transliteration, and as a result the reference may be entirely unintelligible in the new language.

Example: the weapon "Gungnir" can be found in several titles of the series. It's the spear of the Norse god Odin, and in Japanese is rendered グングニル (gun-gu-ni-ru). Unfortunately, the German translators of FFX did not get that reference, and as a result the weapon is called "Gungunil" there - which requires some creativity to trace back to Gungnir.