60 / 120 fps

[Dexter22 (French)]

Hi, i am French (forgive my poor level of english)!
For people who doesn't know and are really desesperated about a 60fps mod that will never come, there is a secret...
New TV can creat frames and so, with that trick wich consiste to play PC on a expensive TV, you can play FF10 60fps / 120 fps. All you need is your computer to generat flat 30fps to get 60/120 flat fps.


My config :
intel 9900k (nearly 5Ghz 8core/16threads)
Nvidia RTX 2080Ti (MSI gaming TRIO)
16Go RAM
All parameters MAX
4k everywhere

SSD 970PRO M2. (3.5Go read / 2.7Go Write)
THE SECRET: TV oled LG E9 to fluidify 60fps to 120 fps (because HFR120fps with HDMi2.1 and "a9 processor").

It's like if i build a 3000€ PC and a 3000€ computer to play the 3 FF13 games ;o)
Work nice for FF10 30fps ==) feel like a close to perfect 120fps on map and battle.

I know that noone can buy my config but you don't need such an extreme config to get a flat 30fps in FullHD/1080p. And lower price TV than mine (like LG oled C8) can create frame (up to 60fps if they are not HDMi 2.1) well too so... it doesn't cost 6000€ ;o)

[Hinnyuu]

I don't profess to be an expert on computer-generated graphics, but if the game engine can't generate more than 30 fps output because of hardcoded timings, wouldn't the actual display device's ability to display more fps be sort of irrelevant?

[Casurin]

Well . that whole post can be described as "I have no clue of hardware but let me brag about my waste of money".

[Dexter22 (French)]

That post is only about
"Hello guys ! Don't you know that TV can add Frame between Frames ?"
it's not hard to understand and 100% that the people who saw my demo are agree about the results.
If you think you know everythings, and think that TV will never get a feature like this, let me laught : my old samsung 1000€ from year 2011 already do this (but not very good result).

The result modern TV is amazing. (A switch game like Pokemon with a TV like this is like 30fps to 120fps.)

[Hinnyuu]

What you're talking about is frame interpolation, and while that works okay (but by no means perfectly) for a passive image stream, it's really iffy when reactive input is in the mix because the input lag it introduces can drive you up a wall.

[Chakes]

The game is created at a fixed rate of 30 visual frames per second for the most part. Period.

Having a display show the same frame twice or even four times in a row doesn't magically make it 60/120fps.

[Mikasa Ackerman]

frame interpolation or what its called is not the same as natively displaying more frames
because , heres the thing , your gpu is capped by the game , it cant go beyond 30fps , if it could , the game would run too fast , its the same if you run wind waker at 200% speed on dolphin , sure the game runs at 60fps (and turning the camera looks alot less laggy) , but doing anything precize is basically impossible because everything is twice as fast , same goes for timings of things like bombs , you obviously only have half as much time before it explodes bc your game runs at twice the speed
and with alot of older games , sadly , logic and stuff was tied to the framerate

[Casurin]

it can make the movements look a bit smoother, but it also introduces quit a bit of delay.... for things where you need to react to anything (Tidus/wakka/auron OD, chocobo-racing, thunderplains in X adn X-2) it is horrible.

[Mikasa Ackerman]

Originally posted by Casurin:

it can make the movements look a bit smoother, but it also introduces quit a bit of delay.... for things where you need to react to anything (Tidus/wakka/auron OD, chocobo-racing, thunderplains in X adn X-2) it is horrible.

yeah , i dont know if it was the TV , but on my 100hz tv i always had real issues timing tidus sword overdrives , i never understood why , because at first with an old crt tv there was no issue but with a 1080p flat screen i had lots of issues
i havent really tested stuff like that on my new 4k tv from hisense yet but i dont think it has that feature , so it should be fine

[Dexter22 (French)]

Originally posted by Hinnyuu:

What you're talking about is frame interpolation, and while that works okay (but by no means perfectly) for a passive image stream, it's really iffy when reactive input is in the mix because the input lag it introduces can drive you up a wall.

I am very sencitive about frame interpolation, not about input lag ^^ Lucky i guess
I am agree, it's not perfect, but on high pricing TV, it's very nice on a game where the camera don t move too fast, and FFX is this kind of game ^^

Originally posted by Chakes:

The game is created at a fixed rate of 30 visual frames per second for the most part. Period.

Having a display show the same frame twice or even four times in a row doesn't magically make it 60/120fps.

True, but i am not talking about a this kind of "refreshing", but more like frame interpolation / creation of new frames with high pricing TV.
It's not magical, it's computing sciences.

Originally posted by Mikasa Ackerman:

frame interpolation or what its called is not the same as natively displaying more frames
because , heres the thing , your gpu is capped by the game , it cant go beyond 30fps , if it could , the game would run too fast , its the same if you run wind waker at 200% speed on dolphin , sure the game runs at 60fps (and turning the camera looks alot less laggy) , but doing anything precize is basically impossible because everything is twice as fast , same goes for timings of things like bombs , you obviously only have half as much time before it explodes bc your game runs at twice the speed
and with alot of older games , sadly , logic and stuff was tied to the framerate

A wise man ^^ i feel less alone here XD

Originally posted by Casurin:

it can make the movements look a bit smoother, but it also introduces quit a bit of delay.... for things where you need to react to anything (Tidus/wakka/auron OD, chocobo-racing, thunderplains in X adn X-2) it is horrible.

I didn't already noticed it, but not very sencitive about input delay or similar things ^^

[Chakes]

Originally posted by Dexter22 (French):

Originally posted by Chakes:

The game is created at a fixed rate of 30 visual frames per second for the most part. Period.

Having a display show the same frame twice or even four times in a row doesn't magically make it 60/120fps.

True, but i am not talking about a this kind of "refreshing", but more like frame interpolation / creation of new frames with high pricing TV.
It's not magical, it's computing sciences.

Originally posted by Dexter22 (French):

Hi, i am French (forgive my poor level of english)!
For people who doesn't know and are really desesperated about a 60fps mod that will never come, there is a secret...
New TV can creat frames and so, with that trick wich consiste to play PC on a expensive TV, you can play FF10 60fps / 120 fps. All you need is your computer to generat flat 30fps to get 60/120 flat fps.

All I'm saying is that what you're claiming in your original post is nothing but utter nonsense. Motion Interpolation (how it's actually called, not frame interpolation) does not let the game run in any more than 30fps like it usually does.

[Dexter22 (French)]

It's wrong, the computer send 30fps to the TV but the TV can (and does) truely display more than 30 dferents frames, like 60 or 120fps.

I tested Pokemon Go on switch, the outside is 30fps, but on my TV, if you have good eyes, you can be absolutely sure that it's not only a frame between 2 computer's frames that is creating so i assume that on my TV, Pokemon Go is not 30fps but 120fps when moving.

It's incredible, but don't affirme things you didn't test, i am absolutely sure, and everyone who saw my TV know it's true, and it's not kid 8 years olds, it's like me people over 30 years old, licence or Master in sciences for some of them.

I just created this topic because i wanted people to know that.

[Hinnyuu]

Display devices can't change what the software actually puts out - they can only modify it.

The game is coded for 30 fps for very specific reasons, which is also why we haven't had a mod yet to unlock frame rate. It's tied to loading timings etc. and things tend to break when you mess with the ACTUAL frame rate.

Your TV isn't ACTUALLY changing frame rate, it's just adding extra frames on its own in post-processing. That's what motion-compensated frame interpolation does. The game still RUNS on 30 fps, the TV just adds more into that. Which is also why input lag etc. is introduced.

[Dexter22 (French)]

I am fully agree with you Hinnyu, except for the first sentence because i am not sûre of that you want to mean. Display can : AND change AND modify frame, it can also add extra frame. I don't understood the meaning of what you want to express maybe because English isn't my main langage ^^



If you see on your display 60 differents frames, even if the computer and the game engine created only 30 differents frames, that mean your TV actualy changed the Frame Rate (30to60).

The definition of a frame is more something like "a different frame on the display" than "a frame created by the engine". It's a bit subjective i confess but saying the opposite like you is not less subjective too.

Even if a frame created by the engine is better quality, a frame created by a display can be sheap (talking money) and better than having few quality fps purely from the game engine.
And it depend of games, but on some, the frame created by the TV can do a perfect illusion even if not totally perfect. FFX is one of this game because the camera is smooth so the TV creates very good extra frames.

I remember a interview of the conceptors (when FFX arrived on PS2) who said they tried to do 60fps first, but because they wanted hight quality (lot polygones), they did 30fps only. But because 30fps can be pain, they did smooth camera for 30fps stay fluide (the TV were small at this epoc so 30fps wasn't as painfull as nowdays). That's why i am sad that the engine isn't trivial to hack for 60fps...

[Mikasa Ackerman]

Originally posted by Dexter22 (French):

I am fully agree with you Hinnyu, except for the first sentence because i am not sûre of that you want to mean. Display can : AND change AND modify frame, it can also add extra frame. I don't understood the meaning of what you want to express maybe because English isn't my main langage ^^



If you see on your display 60 differents frames, even if the computer and the game engine created only 30 differents frames, that mean your TV actualy changed the Frame Rate (30to60).

The definition of a frame is more something like "a different frame on the display" than "a frame created by the engine". It's a bit subjective i confess but saying the opposite like you is not less subjective too.

Even if a frame created by the engine is better quality, a frame created by a display can be sheap (talking money) and better than having few quality fps purely from the game engine.
And it depend of games, but on some, the frame created by the TV can do a perfect illusion even if not totally perfect. FFX is one of this game because the camera is smooth so the TV creates very good extra frames.

I remember a interview of the conceptors (when FFX arrived on PS2) who said they tried to do 60fps first, but because they wanted hight quality (lot polygones), they did 30fps only. But because 30fps can be pain, they did smooth camera for 30fps stay fluide (the TV were small at this epoc so 30fps wasn't as painfull as nowdays). That's why i am sad that the engine isn't trivial to hack for 60fps...

but , those 30 extra frames just are duplicates or mixes of the 30 your gpu sent the display , where do you think a display could take extra frames from , so probably it stretches some and overlaps / displays them twice , and from the sound of that , all i can think of is tearing and other negative things you dont want

[Casurin]

Originally posted by Mikasa Ackerman:

but , those 30 extra frames just are duplicates or mixes of the 30 your gpu sent the display , where do you think a display could take extra frames from , so probably it stretches some and overlaps / displays them twice , and from the sound of that , all i can think of is tearing and other negative things you dont want

No, TVs can interpolate frames now - they have quit the strong hardware for that actually ("Strong" as in way stronger than what was needed to play say WoW when it was released).
of course this comes at a cost as to do an interpolation it has to look at at least 2 frames - the current one and the previous one, before rendering the interpolated one, adding at minimum a delay of 1 frame (33 ms on 30 FPS base), some even look at the previous 2 frames. And it often preduces heavy artefacts. But it can make the motion appear more fluid.