Walking around inside of your ships

[mon]

Do they have any plans for this? They finally gave us legs I'd like to explore the interiors of the ships in freespace or in space ports. would be awesome

[david.hardie]

Originally posted by Doom:

Originally posted by david.hardie:

I play X4 and Elite. Both are good at what they do. Both have issues.
That pilot you hired in X4 cant kill a type K even in an Asgard. Points his weapon in any direction other than facing the enemy.
Ship interiors are not really an issue when compared to that.

Yes, main gun use on asgard is a problem, and yes, both games have missing features. Like lack of VR support in X4. There's also NMS, which is at least partly inspired by elite, except it is cartoon looking.

One thing I do love about X4 is that you can make a sightseeing fleet. One asgard can't fight a K? Bring 5. Five asgard battleships, ten osaka destroyers, give each a fighter wing, add a Raptor carrier with 120 more fighters in it. Just so they'll protest your Astrid luxury yacht while you stand on the bed and stare at the stars through its glass ceiling. Would love to do that in Elite. Not happening, though. Because "multiplayer". Also, what's the point of buying, say a Beluga if you can't even explore it?

I had a fleet of 5 Asgards which were all killed by a single type K. I watched it live and did not intervene just to see what would happen.
But hey. Not being able to go for a poo in a Krait is a massive issue.

[jimbalayajones]

I really have to wonder about people who have played X4 and Star Citizen and then move to Elite Dangerous...And then they complain that Elite Dangerous is not enough like X4 and Star Citizen...Just play those games if that is what you want...Ship interiors will never be a thing in Elite Dangerous...It is simply not cost effective...The logical path for a player is to play the games that have the features they want...Not demand that another game implement them...That is a foolish mindset especially when a game manufacturer has specifically stated that they will never give you want you want...Is that the state of younger players today?...To continually complain about something that is never going to happen?...What a waste of time and energy...

[jimbalayajones]

Originally posted by david.hardie:

Originally posted by Doom:

Yes, main gun use on asgard is a problem, and yes, both games have missing features. Like lack of VR support in X4. There's also NMS, which is at least partly inspired by elite, except it is cartoon looking.

One thing I do love about X4 is that you can make a sightseeing fleet. One asgard can't fight a K? Bring 5. Five asgard battleships, ten osaka destroyers, give each a fighter wing, add a Raptor carrier with 120 more fighters in it. Just so they'll protest your Astrid luxury yacht while you stand on the bed and stare at the stars through its glass ceiling. Would love to do that in Elite. Not happening, though. Because "multiplayer". Also, what's the point of buying, say a Beluga if you can't even explore it?

I had a fleet of 5 Asgards which were all killed by a single type K. I watched it live and did not intervene just to see what would happen.
But hey. Not being able to go for a poo in a Krait is a massive issue.

I occasionally take a poo in my Cutter...Just level her off between jumps and hit the head...Funny thing...My ship bathroom looks exactly like my house bathroom...Those FDEV peeps are good...Very good... ;)

[Merkenjian]

Originally posted by jimbalayajones:

I really have to wonder about people who have played X4 and Star Citizen and then move to Elite Dangerous...And then they complain that Elite Dangerous is not enough like X4 and Star Citizen...Just play those games if that is what you want...

Funnily enough some of those people also complain on the X forums that it's not enough like Elite.

[jimbalayajones]

Originally posted by Merkenjian:

Originally posted by jimbalayajones:

I really have to wonder about people who have played X4 and Star Citizen and then move to Elite Dangerous...And then they complain that Elite Dangerous is not enough like X4 and Star Citizen...Just play those games if that is what you want...

Funnily enough some of those people also complain on the X forums that it's not enough like Elite.

That is hilarious...I play X4 for X4...NMS for NMS...Elite for Elite...I might consider Robert's little boon child if it ever hits Beta...Every game has it's own little sweet spots...I sometimes jump back into X3AP just because I love it...Until the economy grinds to an icy halt...Then I go back to another...

[Chief]

Originally posted by LeeingLow:

Originally posted by mon:

you are the biggest debbie downer I've met. It would be a cool little feature to do stuff like that in your ship for further immersion.

I presume you have no idea how much scripting, modelling, texting and model manipulation would need to be done. So do not think its so easy to do it, it would take months to make one interior, another month or 2 to texture it and create a bitmap, lightning etc

okay think what you think about ship interiors but that point is just false. with the current cockpit models, making ship interiors may take 3 months~ to properly make a foundation, but once you've got it, the other ship takes no time. no one really wants the entire ship, top to bottom left to right to be explorable because thats unrealistic with some of the big ships, some people just want to walk around the cockpit. some of the "issues" here are stuff that is easily solvable like an option to instantly teleport to the surface or teleporting you to the cockpit when you get interdicted. i dont like the way people think about everything in such a flat way here, if there's issues that pop up with interiors you can work around them and make it a mechanic that is skippable for people who arent gonna like it. i would not even say its a novelty, in star citizen i like hanging out in my ship all the time when im parked on planets or on a small break, and with elite being way more heavy on travel it would benefit ship interiors even more

[Jeebs]

Originally posted by Merkenjian:

Funnily enough some of those people also complain on the X forums that it's not enough like Elite.

I don't doubt it... and yet they still haven't figured out that game developers rarely if ever take suggestions from people on the internet who have zero experience with game design, publishing or marketing.

I can understand suggesting tweaks to UI or some existing feature, but outright demanding an entire rewrite of a game and/or its core mechanics is just ridiculous. What amuses me is when they "threaten" to leave unless these features are added, as if anyone actually cares (I personally always hope they make good on this threat, but they rarely seem to).

[Jeebs]

Originally posted by Chief:

Originally posted by LeeingLow:

I presume you have no idea how much scripting, modelling, texting and model manipulation would need to be done. So do not think its so easy to do it, it would take months to make one interior, another month or 2 to texture it and create a bitmap, lightning etc

okay think what you think about ship interiors but that point is just false. with the current cockpit models, making ship interiors may take 3 months~ to properly make a foundation, but once you've got it, the other ship takes no time. no one really wants the entire ship, top to bottom left to right to be explorable because thats unrealistic with some of the big ships, some people just want to walk around the cockpit. some of the "issues" here are stuff that is easily solvable like an option to instantly teleport to the surface or teleporting you to the cockpit when you get interdicted. i dont like the way people think about everything in such a flat way here, if there's issues that pop up with interiors you can work around them and make it a mechanic that is skippable for people who arent gonna like it. i would not even say its a novelty, in star citizen i like hanging out in my ship all the time when im parked on planets or on a small break, and with elite being way more heavy on travel it would benefit ship interiors even more

Do you have any experience in game design or are you just saying that in your opinion it should take a few months? I sincerely doubt it. Things are never as simple as you'd expect when it comes to coding a game. Not to mention that it becomes a thing that has to be maintained with every new update, another thing that can potentially break or cause buggy behaviour that then has to be investigated and resolved.

Considering that most people who actually play the game seem to not want it, it seems like a pointless waste of money and dev resources for something that most people will opt out of using... and the people who are mostly likely to use it never seem to stick around for long. Adding "missing features" is not going to make them like Elite. They'll just find the next thing that needs to be added for them to enjoy it. Hence why I keep suggesting they look for a game that already has the features and gameplay they want and enjoy.

[Dolphin Bottlenose]

Originally posted by Chief:

in star citizen i like hanging out in my ship all the time when im parked on planets or on a small break,

Star Citizen is not even a beta state game yet, after all these years. Maybe because developers there spend their resources on doing such immersion fluff instead of actually making a game. I wouldn't want this game to go the same way.

If you like to hang out in your ship instead of actually flying it, then you can do it in SC. I would rather have FDevs to develop some more gameplay for my ships, than showrooms to sit in and to do nothing.

[Doom]

Originally posted by jimbalayajones:

The logical path for a player is to play the games that have the features they want...

That game does not exist, because features people want are spread across several titles. That's why people request them - in hopes that somebody will do everything right, for once and gather all desirable things in a single game.

[Merkenjian]

Originally posted by Doom:

That game does not exist, because features people want are spread across several titles. That's why people request them - in hopes that somebody will do everything right, for once and gather all desirable things in a single game.

Such a game will never exist, because not everybody wants the same things. Or the same things done the same way. Or even the same thing all the time. I love that in X4 I can build up a huge fleet and wipe out entire sectors, even races. I love that I'm just another cog in the huge machine in Elite, where I can make a difference, but only a slight one, alone.
I like that in X4 if things go wrong, and I get wiped out, there's no penalty, other than the glacial loading times.
I like that in Elite, bad decisions have permanent consequences.
Can't have it both ways. So I play Elite. Or I play X4.

[0Samuel]

Originally posted by Doom:

That game does not exist, because features people want are spread across several titles. That's why people request them - in hopes that somebody will do everything right, for once and gather all desirable things in a single game.

Eh, the thing with feature creep is that you can do it, but you have to pick your battles. You can have something that's highly polished with a carefully curated assortment of features, or you can throw the kitchen sink in and accept that you'll get poor performance, poor graphics, poor discoverability, bugs galore, etc., etc.

And it turns out you make more money with polished parsimony most of the time.

The game that's effectively described with the "add everything" posts is Empyrion Galactic Survival, and it isn't as bad as you'd expect, but nor is it, uh, game of the year or anything like that. Plus the little indie developer that made it got bought up by one of those cash-grab run-it-into-the-ground outfits, so, you know, won't be around much longer either.

But then there's something like Minecraft or Kerbal Space Program that seems to have broken the rules, so everyone keeps expecting every single game to somehow pull that off, but truth be told those games really just found a happy medium and that's never what people are asking for from everything else.

Elite is sitting rather heavily at the polished end of the space sim genre. It tried moving towards the middle with Odyssey, but that made everyone mad and they won't make that mistake again. It's a lucrative niche and they gain nothing by leaving it.

[jimbalayajones]

Originally posted by Doom:

Originally posted by jimbalayajones:

The logical path for a player is to play the games that have the features they want...

That game does not exist, because features people want are spread across several titles. That's why people request them - in hopes that somebody will do everything right, for once and gather all desirable things in a single game.

That game does not exist and never will...That is why you play several games with things you like...The rest you just deal with and find a work around for...There will never be a perfect game...That is a pipe dream...These games are a revenue stream controlled by a company...They will rarely if ever listen to players...They will do what they think will make them the most money...That is a fact that I am OK with because at the end of the day, I get to choose what I want to play...

[Doom]

Originally posted by jimbalayajones:

There will never be a perfect game...

People aren't asking for a perfect game. They're asking for specific features which are all quite doable.

"walkable interiors", "ground combat", "vehicles", "bases", "space", "realistic", "land on planet" and "VR".

Elite already has full cabin interiors. To implement "walking" in a cabin you slap in a basic walk mesh and call it done. Walk mesh is just a few triangles. It certainly won't take "months" to implement either. It'll take days.

That's a common problem, actually.
Someone says: "I want to stand up from my chair".
Immediately there's a naysayer: "How dare you to demand full interiors for everything! Do you not value developer's time? It is absolutley impossible! It is insane to request such a thing!".
But all the person asked for was the ability to stand up from the pilot's chair and look around. And not the impossibly difficult thing naysayer imagined.

Speaking of which, this is what a single guy with no funding can do in spare time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfGfBX2gj2g

[0Samuel]

Mhm. Lovely video. But the thing is, that's not any guy with no funding can do; that's what that guy can do. Does FDev have the money to pay him to do it 40 hrs/week? Sure, it'll take him less time than the 9 months that took if it's his full time job, but it won't be the nice neat math equation that would be economically convenient; that's not how creative stuff works.

So lets say we cut it down to maybe 4, 5 months for that Sidewinder. Except there's more problems; the raytracing took a full month. That's 2 hours for every second. Are you willing to wait two hours for every second to render?

But wait, there's more! The sidewinder is the smallest ship. The interiors for other ships would take longer. And if we're already at 4 or 5 months for the smallest ship, then there's no way we get to all 30-something in a reasonable time frame with just the one guy; plus he'd burn out if we tried. So now we need multiple artists. But now that we have multiple artists we have multiple artistic visions. Do we want a disjointed, disconnected experience where nothing is consistent? We've got a solution for this, though, we planned ahead- that's why we have multiple ship manufacturers. But, how inconsistent are we willing to tolerate? How do we deal with the fact that we all those other artists we hired aren't nearly as good as the first guy? Do we make him go back and touch up everyone else's work, so that noone gets to have any sort of professional pride in what they have made? How does that affect the speed at which work gets done and the overall quality with which it is done?

And if we did a bit of digging, I bet we'd find out that the guy who made that video is a big budget film CGI artist that FDev couldn't possibly afford to hire, or something with a similarly prohibitive salary. People who have talents they use in their spare time often have more substantial talents that they are getting paid to use the rest of the time.

These aren't unsolvable problems. But when people tell you that it takes time and money to solve them, there's a good reason for that.