The reason Flight Sticks are superior vs Mouse and KB for flight

[Churd]

This isn't a troll or flame thread, I just wanted to point out one key difference that some people, not everyone, may not know. If you know already, and you still prefer a different device, then this isn't pertaining to you. Hell, some people like to strum their guitars with a quarter or a penny, even though a pick is better. Its all preference, but when it comes to raw performance for flight, you just can't beat a stick. A master with the mouse just won't outperform a master with a flight stick at flying. If he could, then NASA would train people to fly with a mouse instead, so they could fly their trillion dollar space shuttles with more precission. But instead, they choose flight sticks.

And yes, I know the military is testing x-box controllers for PORTABLE drone control devices. Get that? Portable. Thats the only reason. If they were sitting down in a stationary spot, they would always choose a flight stick.

The reason the airforce and NASA both use flight sticks to control 99% of their aircraft is because of the triple axis + d-pad hihat.

So your thumb is on an 8-way directional pad, while your finger is on the trigger, and your hand controls X, Y, and Z axis (twist axis). Plus any other buttons your thumb can access. And thats just the right hand... (assuming you're not left handed)

With one hand, you can control your pitch, yaw, roll, vertical, and lateral thrusters, weapons, menus, targeting, boost, and much more without having to take your hand off of the stick. And since flight sticks are big, you can make more precise small adjustments, as opposed to a tiny controller stick.

______________________________________________________________
Google images search for "Drone Pilot":

https://www.google.com/search?q=nasa+drone+pilots&espv=2&biw=1920&bih=989&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=PYwtVf-tHLPIsQSbr4DYDg&ved=0CAkQ_AUoBA#tbm=isch&q=drone+pilots
______________________________________________________________


Notice how some of them have a mouse and keyboard in front of them, yet their hand is still on the flight stick for piloting? You would think that if someone discovered that mouse and keyboard was more efficient, they would use them instead if it meant the mission would have a greater chance of success, especially when lives are at stake, not to mention the many millions or billions of dollars that the spent on the aircraft.


Lets see a mouse and keyboard do this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZeBE9ttUzY

[Syd Khaos]

Początkowo opublikowane przez GPMoDBakamoichigei:

Początkowo opublikowane przez SydKhaos:

No clue what your talking about....or who Squix is.....you clearly have no clue what your talking about..

No, I know exactly what I'm talking about, and LupisVolk knows what I'm talking about as well. You're the one who does not. Here, allow me to fix that: Squix was some little bastard who was copy-pasting his 'Why are fanboys still luring people into buying this game?' manifesto in to basically every thread he could justify fitting it into.

Just about the last thing anyone heard from him yesterday before his own thread was locked, and he was *banned*, was "I have yet to see something else then trolling from the opposing faction... Happens to quite a few threads in here lately. To me it seems like you are one troll using several accounts." So, when St3amfails said something that sounded similar, it seemed like the obvious joke to make, and hopefully it elicited a chuckle from anyone else who had to spend most of yesterday reading Squix's BS.

Ah ok...I missed this fellas BS...I tend to avoid a majority of the crybaby threads, thanks for enlightening me =)

[Bakamoichigei]

Początkowo opublikowane przez SydKhaos:

Ah ok...I missed this fellas BS...I tend to avoid a majority of the crybaby threads, thanks for enlightening me =)

Lucky you. I've had little choice but to read the forums to occupy myself lately. :P Finally got my new GPU coming today though! (Like, imminently! Yay!)

[Syd Khaos]

Początkowo opublikowane przez GPMoDBakamoichigei:

Początkowo opublikowane przez SydKhaos:

Ah ok...I missed this fellas BS...I tend to avoid a majority of the crybaby threads, thanks for enlightening me =)

Lucky you. I've had little choice but to read the forums to occupy myself lately. :P Finally got my new GPU coming today though! (Like, imminently! Yay!) :golden:

Oh...I feel your pain bud, was in this exact same situation up till about a week ago. Cept first card I got...welll I think UPS droped it, had to go back and wait again!

[Bakamoichigei]

Początkowo opublikowane przez SydKhaos:

Początkowo opublikowane przez GPMoDBakamoichigei:

Lucky you. I've had little choice but to read the forums to occupy myself lately. :P Finally got my new GPU coming today though! (Like, imminently! Yay!)

Oh...I feel your pain bud, was in this exact same situation up till about a week ago. Cept first card I got...welll I think UPS droped it, had to go back and wait again!

Hehe, fan on my HD 6870 (The second of a two card SLI, I removed the first one over a year ago for the same reason.) went out just before Homeworld Remastered came out... (I'd preordered the CE back in May 2014! ) The replacement fans I bought have a 3-hole bracket, but my early model card uses 4-hole fans. *headdesk* I finally arrived at the realization that even if I did slay the Beast of Procrastination, make an adapter plate, and fix both cards... I'd simply have a pair of 5-year old GPUs. :P

So I just said screw it and bought an R9 280X that makes my cards look like a joke.

[VintageGoose]

I use my keyboard and mouse. Lack of money is the reason I haven't looked into getting a HOTA: Warthog or anything but I feel like at some point I would prefer to get one. Nothing wrong with keyboard and mouse.

[Churd]

Początkowo opublikowane przez St3amfails:

No I read it all syd, and while a few good points were raised, it is mostly subjective nonsense, including everything said by the OP.

Fact: Analog axis inputs will control flight maneuvers with greater precission than a mouse or binary digital keys.

Fact: With a flight stick, your right hand can control all 3 basic flight axises (pitch, yaw, roll) with singular, unified, progressive movements.

Fact: Flight sticks are the peripheral of choice for nearly every aircraft and spacecraft to date, even though mouse/keyboard and joystick game controllers were invented 50 years ago.

All of this was basically covered in the original thread topic.

[LupisVolk]

Początkowo opublikowane przez GPMoDBakamoichigei:

Lucky you. I've had little choice but to read the forums to occupy myself lately. :P Finally got my new GPU coming today though! (Like, imminently! Yay!) :golden:

it's may daily ritural to read my messages and look at the forums. T_T why!

[Thomas Eichhorst]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Churdington:

This isn't a troll or flame thread, I just wanted to point out one key difference that some people, not everyone, may not know. If you know already, and you still prefer a different device, then this isn't pertaining to you. Hell, some people like to strum their guitars with a quarter or a penny, even though a pick is better. Its all preference, but when it comes to raw performance for flight, you just can't beat a stick. A master with the mouse just won't outperform a master with a flight stick at flying. If he could, then NASA would train people to fly with a mouse instead, so they could fly their trillion dollar space shuttles with more precission. But instead, they choose flight sticks.

And yes, I know the military is testing x-box controllers for PORTABLE drone control devices. Get that? Portable. Thats the only reason. If they were sitting down in a stationary spot, they would always choose a flight stick.

The reason the airforce and NASA both use flight sticks to control 99% of their aircraft is because of the triple axis + d-pad hihat.

So your thumb is on an 8-way directional pad, while your finger is on the trigger, and your hand controls X, Y, and Z axis (twist axis). Plus any other buttons your thumb can access. And thats just the right hand... (assuming you're not left handed)

With one hand, you can control your pitch, yaw, roll, vertical, and lateral thrusters, weapons, menus, targeting, boost, and much more without having to take your hand off of the stick. And since flight sticks are big, you can make more precise small adjustments, as opposed to a tiny controller stick.

:)

The only thing I find inferior on my K+M setup compared to your joysticks is Y axis being too slow when used to pitch up/down. Other than that, I have managed to kill 90% or more of the ships that I fought with in solo mode and fly with extreme precision in and around the station. Not sure if I would be able to have such precision with joysticks.

[Thomas Eichhorst]

Oh and I absolutely hate joysticks, driving wheels, consoles and their periferals, the last of which I have owned in early 80s and do not intend to buy the childish nonsense again. The only thing that is not shameful or childish is a PC with K+M :p

[Chaunsey]

Początkowo opublikowane przez 2x4:

Oh and I absolutely hate joysticks, driving wheels, consoles and their periferals, the last of which I have owned in early 80s and do not intend to buy the childish nonsense again. The only thing that is not shameful or childish is a PC with K+M :p

theres nothing childish about driving wheels and flight sticks, some of the most complex adult simulation gamers out there use stuff like that almost exclusively.

[Churd]

Początkowo opublikowane przez 2x4:

Oh and I absolutely hate joysticks, driving wheels, consoles and their periferals, the last of which I have owned in early 80s and do not intend to buy the childish nonsense again. The only thing that is not shameful or childish is a PC with K+M :p

A hands on throttle and stick is what NASA and the Air Force use for flying. NASA has known about mouse and keyboard for 50 years, yet they still design space shuttles with a flight stick. Even when they are at a computer flying an unmanned drone that isn't automated, they still use sticks instead of the mouse that is already available at the computer they are sitting at. Why? Because its superior for flying. So how is that childish? Its the best peripheral for controlling flight axises, and that's what they're designed for.

I have a mouse and keyboard right next to my flight stick, yet for piloting, i always switch to the stick, even though I have used a moust and keyboard for games for over 20 years, and I have very limited experience with a stick, its just better for flying.

Personally, I think using inappropriate peripherals for a simulation turns it into a "toy" rather than a simulation. If you want a simulated flight scenario, use a stick. If you want to play it as a video game, use a mouse.

Also, a flight stick is different from a joystick. A joystick only has 2 axises, just tilt forward and tilt sideways. A flight stick has a third axis, it twists for yaw, and has a button configuration that is designed for additional flight controls without having to move your hand off of the stick.

When you can control the 3 axises with a single fluid motion and hold it, and modify each axis independently still with that one fluid motion, its just better.

Here is a google images search for drone pilot, see for yourself. You will even see some pilots with a keyboard and mouse in front of them, but their hand is on the flight stick instead. If they thought the mouse would do the job better, especially when the mission's success is at stake, they would use it.

Google images search for "Drone Pilot":

https://www.google.com/search?q=nasa+drone+pilots&espv=2&biw=1920&bih=989&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=PYwtVf-tHLPIsQSbr4DYDg&ved=0CAkQ_AUoBA#tbm=isch&q=drone+pilots

[Churd]

Początkowo opublikowane przez 2x4:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Churdington:

This isn't a troll or flame thread, I just wanted to point out one key difference that some people, not everyone, may not know. If you know already, and you still prefer a different device, then this isn't pertaining to you. Hell, some people like to strum their guitars with a quarter or a penny, even though a pick is better. Its all preference, but when it comes to raw performance for flight, you just can't beat a stick. A master with the mouse just won't outperform a master with a flight stick at flying. If he could, then NASA would train people to fly with a mouse instead, so they could fly their trillion dollar space shuttles with more precission. But instead, they choose flight sticks.

And yes, I know the military is testing x-box controllers for PORTABLE drone control devices. Get that? Portable. Thats the only reason. If they were sitting down in a stationary spot, they would always choose a flight stick.

The reason the airforce and NASA both use flight sticks to control 99% of their aircraft is because of the triple axis + d-pad hihat.

So your thumb is on an 8-way directional pad, while your finger is on the trigger, and your hand controls X, Y, and Z axis (twist axis). Plus any other buttons your thumb can access. And thats just the right hand... (assuming you're not left handed)

With one hand, you can control your pitch, yaw, roll, vertical, and lateral thrusters, weapons, menus, targeting, boost, and much more without having to take your hand off of the stick. And since flight sticks are big, you can make more precise small adjustments, as opposed to a tiny controller stick.

:)

The only thing I find inferior on my K+M setup compared to your joysticks is Y axis being too slow when used to pitch up/down. Other than that, I have managed to kill 90% or more of the ships that I fought with in solo mode and fly with extreme precision in and around the station. Not sure if I would be able to have such precision with joysticks.

You can hold tighter turns and more advanced maneuvers while still properly aiming at your target. Theres a reason that NASA and the AIr Force use flight sticks at their desks to pilot unmanned, unautomated drones, even though they have a mouse and keyboard right in front of them, available for use. If mouse and keyboard was the best, they would use it. They have a lot of money invested in those drones.

Once you get used to a flight stick for maneuvering, you will notice the differences. When you can control the 3 axises with a single fluid motion and hold it, and modify each axis independently still with that one fluid motion, its just better.

I have a mouse and keyboard right next to my flight stick, yet for piloting, i always switch to the stick, even though I have used a moust and keyboard for games for over 20 years, and I have very limited experience with a stick, its just better for flying.

Here is a google images search for drone pilot, see for yourself. You will even see some pilots with a keyboard and mouse in front of them, but their hand is on the flight stick instead. If they thought the mouse would do the job better, especially when the mission's success is at stake, they would use it.

Google images search for "Drone Pilot":

https://www.google.com/search?q=nasa+drone+pilots&espv=2&biw=1920&bih=989&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=PYwtVf-tHLPIsQSbr4DYDg&ved=0CAkQ_AUoBA#tbm=isch&q=drone+pilots

[Bjørn]

Would be interesting to see these guys doing what they do with mouse and keyboard controls:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZeBE9ttUzY

:^D

[Churd]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Psilio:

Would be interesting to see these guys doing what they do with mouse and keyboard controls:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZeBE9ttUzY

:^D

It would be imposible to fly like that with a mouse, even if you were remotely piloting the aircraft from an office desktop.

[Bjørn]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Churdington:

It would be imposible to fly like that with a mouse, even if you were remotely piloting the aircraft from an office desktop.

You mean especially if you were remote controlling it. Not taking any lag into account, nothing beats the physical forces like the G-forces when doing stuff like this to properly appreciate your surroundings.

But yes that was kind of my point... A flight stick is a must for games like these, preferably combined with a head tracking device so you can see where things are more easily.

Notice that these aircraft (they're using the Extra 300s, if I'm not mistaken) have a flight stick, and not a yoke like normal aircraft, and they have windows all over the place so they can see everything around them, even 180 degrees behind them.