Solving the Flight Stick vs Gamepad vs Mouse debate:

[Churd]

The Air Force uses "flight sticks" to control their $10,000,000+ drones. If they thought a mouse or gamepad would be more efficient, they would use one.

There is a difference between a "joystick" and a "flight stick". Flight sticks have an additional axis: the twist axis. In addition to tilting forward/back/left/right, a flight stick can also twist left/right for the yaw axis.

Plus, throttle is much easier to control with throttle paddle, because a throttle paddle doesn't spring back into place, it stays where you shift it to.

We have had dual-axis joysticks and mice since the 1980s, or 1970s even? Yet they still train pilots with a triple-axis flight stick instead, with both drones and billion dollar manned aircraft. NASA even uses flight sticks for their space shuttles, even though they are progressive thinkers who, if given the inclination, would have used a mouse for piloting instead, if it were more accurate and efficient.

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Google images search for air force drone pilots:

https://www.google.com/search?q=air+force+drone+pilot&espv=2&biw=1684&bih=989&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=4uAkVcS1GMjdsAX52YHgCg&ved=0CAkQ_AUoBA

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Google images search for space shuttle cockpit.


https://www.google.com/search?q=space+shuttle+cockpit&espv=2&biw=1684&bih=989&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=H20lVeywL4HMsAWn_YGQAw&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ

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[Hadji]

Flight sticks doesn't necessarily have a twist axis. Rudder input is done with rudder pedals (I use MFG Crosswind pedals for this purpose). I use a TM HOTA Warthog which is one of the best flight sticks on the market.

The Logitech 3D is a gaming joystick. Nothing more nothing less.

[OJ191]

引用自 El Hadji：

Flight sticks doesn't necessarily have a twist axis. Rudder input is done with rudder pedals (I use MFG Crosswind pedals for this purpose). I use a TM HOTA Warthog which is one of the best flight sticks on the market.

The Logitech 3D is a gaming joystick. Nothing more nothing less.

Personally I use a saitek evo force, it kinda sucks not having a separate throttle stick (range is limited and doesn't stay in positions apart from full forward and full back very well without holding it) but it's lasted so long I can't even remember how long ago I got it, and I'm pretty sure it was less than $100 at the time so... money well spent :D

A shame nobody does force feedback for joysticks anymore... console gamepads get all the love

[Bakamoichigei]

Oh good, someone else explaining to him about flight sticks and rudder pedals... Strangely that's at least twice now he's made basically the identical post, except that bit at the end...

@Churdington: The Logitech Extreme 3D Pro is as much a 'flight stick' as I am a Japanese schoolgirl. (Spoilers: I am not a Japanese schoolgirl...not at all.) And the 'flight sticks' they use to control drones cost more than your computer. (Unless you've got some Super Korean Pro Gamer Edition thing with a lighting kit, spinning rims, and a spoiler and ♥♥♥♥.) Just sayin'.

[Hadji]

Having separate HOTAS stick and throttle helps a lot and it is great for Elite. Having the same precision as the Warthog AND force feedback would be awesome.

[Bakamoichigei]

引用自 El Hadji：

Having separate HOTAS stick and throttle helps a lot and it is great for Elite. Having the same precision as the Warthog AND force feedback would be awesome.

It'd be nice if when someone DID include force feedback it was actual force feedback, and not just 'rumble'. Because...yeah. Oh. Yay. It's a joystick -and- a vibrator! The possibilities are endless! *facepalm*

I think they missed the window for making it a thing though, before simulated interfaces and VR take over. It really wouldn't have been hard. Just take a stick, with a classic gimbal configuration, and instead of pots for reading the position, make it stepper motors with rotary encoders on them. Of course the entire gimbal would have to be metal or you'd tear the thing apart... But the steppers can be 'disabled' while there's no feedback (or even be used cleverly to provide varying levels of resistance) and then when the game tells it to jolt the stick in a specific direction, the steppers are enabled momentarily and jerked in the specified direction with the specified force.

I mean ♥♥♥♥, I could do it, but there's no one making games-- as far as I know --where the force feedback is designed for directional cues or anything...except maybe in driving games.

[Dark Phoenix]

For smaller recon drones, the military use xbox controllers...so we should all swap to those?

It's all about what you prefer. I have been using wasd since games moved from using arrow keys, so of course i'm going to be more convortable using that.

[Churd]

引用自 El Hadji：

Flight sticks doesn't necessarily have a twist axis. Rudder input is done with rudder pedals (I use MFG Crosswind pedals for this purpose). I use a TM HOTA Warthog which is one of the best flight sticks on the market.

The Logitech 3D is a gaming joystick. Nothing more nothing less.

I listed it because its cheap. $20. Most gamers can afford it, and it has basic flight stick functionality. (rudder control, twist/tilt stick, thumb dpad, its good 'nuff.)

[Bakamoichigei]

引用自 Streaming Phoenix：

For smaller recon drones, the military use xbox controllers...so we should all swap to those?

It's all about what you prefer. I have been using wasd since games moved from using arrow keys, so of course i'm going to be more convortable using that.

You know, I've always wondered about the choice to use 360 controllers for things like those little hand-launched UAVs, and the EOD robots... Game controllers don't exactly use high-reliability components. Especially nowadays when the buttons are usually all flexible film analog weirdness, and not even proper carbon pads on PCBs and stuff...

I've also wondered how they can get away with that, since when I'm requesting component samples I literally have to sign waivers saying I don't intend to use consumer-grade chips in military or medical end-use devices... :P

[mbpoblet]

This is a computer game, not some $10,000,000+.

Completely different design requirements.

In particular, some players won't have access to a HOTAS, so the game was designed from the start to be equally playable with a variety of control methods and schemes.

Every player will have a control method and scheme that works for them, and what works for someone might not work for someone else.

The only thing trying to force people to use the control method and scheme that happens to work for you will acomplish is to needlessly antagonize them and drive them away from the game.

[Bakamoichigei]

引用自 mbpoblet：

The only thing trying to force people to use the control method and scheme that happens to work for you will acomplish is antagonize them and drive them away from the game.

♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, you're gonna blow our plan! (ノಠ_ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻

[Churd]

引用自 mbpoblet：

This is a computer game, not some $10,000,000+.

Completely different design requirements.

In particular, some players won't have access to a HOTAS, so the game was designed from the start to be equally playable with a variety of control methods and schemes.

Every player will have a control method and scheme that works for them, and what works for someone might not work for someone else.

The only thing trying to force people to use the control method and scheme that happens to work for you will acomplish is to needlessly antagonize them and drive them away from the game.

The Logitech Extreme 3DPRO is pretty cheap... and it works well. The throttle paddle works just as well as a larger variant, the d-pad for your right hand thumb, on top of the stick, works well for vertical and horrizontal thrusters, the stick twists for yaw, tilts for pitch/roll, and has plenty of buttons. Works just fine for the price, and anyone can get one. These kinds of sticks are designed with flying in mind, not general purpose.

Side note: I also have a G13 Gamepad sitting next to my 3dpro stick, i use my pinky to move the analog stick on that for "head look" (looking around the cockpit). Would be nice to have a headtracker :P

[Moosegun]

I dont have HOTAS, I have a pretty good joystick with hat thumbstick in right hand, G13 with 25 progammable buttons and thumbstick in left hand and Voice Attack which often makes both the afformentioned devices redundant. Dont need any throttle, if I need to speed up I just tell the b*tch to go faster ;)

[Bakamoichigei]

You know what's actually designed with flying in mind? (In fact, it's the predecessor of the HOTAS that's actually in the cockpit in the game.) The Saitek X36 HOTAS. I got mine for $12 shipped.
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https://www.google.com/search?q=saitek+x36&espv=2&biw=1920&bih=911&site=webhp&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=0P8kVdAlksixBI2-gagF&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAg&dpr=1

Also, it has a rudder paddle on the backside of the throttle grip, I have it set to roll. Very effective.

[Ghostickles]

NASA spent 10 million on a pen that worked in space, the Soviets used a pencil.
Get outta town OP, you crack me up. :)

[Hadji]

To clarify: I haven't bought almost $1000 worth of peripherals just to play ED. My buddy flies with a 360-controller and it works well. They reason I'm using all the expensive stuff is that I am a flight sim buff with DCS being my favourite. And in DCS good equipment really makes a difference!