Python mk II has some of the worst hardpoint convergence I've ever seen on a combat ship

[Holeypaladin]

I'm surprised more people aren't talking about this, because it's a pretty serious design flaw.

I tried building a Python mk II with both Pacifiers and efficient APAs, and faced the same problem, twice. It simply can't hit an FDL with these weapons due to terrible hardpoint convergence. For a ship designed specifically to fight FDLs and Mambas, this is a big problem.

The reason why the FDL is a much better combat ship than the Mamba is not due to its hardpoints, as they're actually worse. It's because the FDL has some of the best hardpoint convergence of any ship in the game... certainly the best for a medium combat ship. A combat ship needs to be able to hit a Viper with its largest fixed weapons... in this regard, the Python mk II is worse than the Federal Corvette, which I stopped using due to its bad hardpoint convergence.

If you plan on fighting anything smaller than an Anaconda, forget about trying to use any cool weapons on the Python mk II. The only valid weapon choice is gimballed multicannons... which are just about the most boring thing imaginable, and near worthless against anyone with Dispersal Field plasmas, or Dangerous and higher NPCs who spam chaff 90% of the time.

[Holeypaladin]

Originally posted by ZombieHunter:

NPCs will not destroy you as quick if you use gimballed as a PVP encounter will. PVPs are going to be running plasmas with some kind of effect. Those PVP plasmas will destroy you while your gimbals are lost b/c of chaff. There is a massive difference between PVP and PVE. Also splitting your thermals and ballistics on separate groups is not reducing DPS. You are wasting ammo trying to bring shields down with ballistics. My point is in PVE gimbals are fine, not in PVP. The NPCs won't kill you as fast as another player can or will.

What deals more damage, four guns, or two? The answer is pretty self-explanatory.

If you're worried about how quickly enemies can destroy you, then you're not dealing enough damage. The best way to avoid being destroyed is to kill the enemy faster than it can kill you. And if you can't kill an NPC before they run out of chaff ammo, then your damage is way too low.

Gimballs are bad against high-ranked NPCs, because their chaff lasts way longer than it takes to kill them, and they spam it constantly, making it nearly impossible to hit. They're only effective against low-ranked NPCs that don't spam chaff, or if the fight lasts so long (due to your low damage build) that they run out of chaff ammo.

Ballistics also deal more damage than lasers, so they're not wasted even against shields. 50% of 100 is more than 75% of 60. If you're worried about running out of ammo, then you're taking too long to kill things. Also, there's zero reason to split between thermal and ballistics if you use an Absolute damage build. It's effective against both, especially against high-ranked enemies with engineered resistances on their shields and hull. Rails are also effective against both, as their damage is split 50/50. And both of these weapon types require good convergence.

If you're content to use gimballed lasers and multicannons, then sure, convergence doesn't matter. But if you want to use rails or plasmas, it does. Especially when shooting at Vultures. My entire point in this topic is that bad convergence ships like the PMK2 require you to use gimballed laser/multicannon builds, which I find boring. I kill high-ranked NPCs a whole lot faster with an absolute damage FDL, and it's also more fun.

[Planewalker]

Originally posted by Keepenater:

I only mentioned the rails as they are not gimballed.

Railguns are micro-gimballed. (subtarget attenuation)
-not that it counters your point, i just wanted to clarify.

[Keepenater]

Originally posted by Planewalker:

Originally posted by Keepenater:

I only mentioned the rails as they are not gimballed.

Railguns are micro-gimballed. (subtarget attenuation)
-not that it counters your point, i just wanted to clarify.

Ahh I did not know this was a thing.

[Keepenater]

Originally posted by Holeypaladin:

My entire point in this topic is that bad convergence ships like the PMK2 require you to use gimballed laser/multicannon builds, which I find boring. I kill high-ranked NPCs a whole lot faster with an absolute damage FDL, and it's also more fun.

All I read here is that you should just not fly the PMK2 and instead just stick with the FDL. Problem solved bud. At the end of the day if you don't like a ship don't fly it. lol

[Holeypaladin]

Originally posted by Keepenater:

Originally posted by Holeypaladin:

My entire point in this topic is that bad convergence ships like the PMK2 require you to use gimballed laser/multicannon builds, which I find boring. I kill high-ranked NPCs a whole lot faster with an absolute damage FDL, and it's also more fun.

All I read here is that you should just not fly the PMK2 and instead just stick with the FDL. Problem solved bud. At the end of the day if you don't like a ship don't fly it. lol

Well yes, that's the obvious solution. And it's what I decided to do, after building and engineering a PMK2 that I might never use again. Had anyone mentioned its bad convergence prior to my own testing the way I've done here, it might have saved me the time and effort to build it.

But no one will know about this ship's bad convergence if no one says anything about it. And that's what I've done... anyone with a preference for fixed weapons, like myself, should be informed of the fact that this ship doesn't have good convergence with its large hardpoints, and they'll be better off flying something like a Krait mk 2 or a FDL.

The sad fact is that neither the Krait nor the FDL are SCO-optimized, so we're still lacking a SCO-optimized combat ship with good hardpoint convergence. Might never get one.

[Keepenater]

Originally posted by Holeypaladin:

Originally posted by Keepenater:

All I read here is that you should just not fly the PMK2 and instead just stick with the FDL. Problem solved bud. At the end of the day if you don't like a ship don't fly it. lol

Well yes, that's the obvious solution. And it's what I decided to do, after building and engineering a PMK2 that I might never use again. Had anyone mentioned its bad convergence prior to my own testing the way I've done here, it might have saved me the time and effort to build it.

But no one will know about this ship's bad convergence if no one says anything about it. And that's what I've done... anyone with a preference for fixed weapons, like myself, should be informed of the fact that this ship doesn't have good convergence with its large hardpoints, and they'll be better off flying something like a Krait mk 2 or a FDL.

The sad fact is that neither the Krait nor the FDL are SCO-optimized, so we're still lacking a SCO-optimized combat ship with good hardpoint convergence. Might never get one.

I've never flown a FDL. How is it overall? Assuming it's what you primarily use that is. I myself primarily use a Krait MKII. I've heard the FDL is over all the best combat ship in the game.

[Holeypaladin]

Originally posted by Keepenater:

I've never flown a FDL. How is it overall? Assuming it's what you primarily use that is. I myself primarily use a Krait MKII. I've heard the FDL is over all the best combat ship in the game.

It's faster and more agile than the Krait mk II. Firepower is overall less, and its slightly smaller distributor can choke your power if you use high energy weapons. But it has a much higher speed at 0 engine pips than the Krait does.

However, it has very, very strong shields, and it's a small target for the enemy to hit, provided you keep your nose pointed at the target. A lot of people don't like how the pilot seat is off-center, but a lot of people also don't like the fact that the Krait's cockpit is underneath the ship.

The main advantage it has over the Krait is its two additional utility points, but this comes at the cost of a fighter bay and some firepower. However, the fast-charge bi-weave shields on my FDL are significantly stronger than the prismatic shields of my Krait, so that's definitely something to keep in mind... its shields are just unreasonably strong for a medium ship.

The other huge advantage that the Krait has (aside from its multirole abilities, such as cargo capacity) is in overall jump range... not only does it jump further in a single jump, it has a MUCH bigger fuel tank. The FDL runs out of fuel after two jumps while the Krait can easily manage five in a row without refueling. However, the Krait is definitely a bigger target... not only are its shields weaker, you're also getting hit a lot more. If you ever do land on planets, you'll find it much easier to land in an FDL than in a Krait. I tried playing Odyssey in a Krait for awhile, and it was a nightmare.

In summary, the FDL is considered the best combat ship not because it is the best in any single category, but because it has the strongest balance of speed, maneuverability, firepower, hardpoint convergence, shield strength, and how difficult it is to hit. It's also hyper-specialized for combat and can't do anything else.

[Keepenater]

Originally posted by Holeypaladin:

Originally posted by Keepenater:

I've never flown a FDL. How is it overall? Assuming it's what you primarily use that is. I myself primarily use a Krait MKII. I've heard the FDL is over all the best combat ship in the game.

It's faster and more agile than the Krait mk II. Firepower is overall less, and its slightly smaller distributor can choke your power if you use high energy weapons. But it has a much higher speed at 0 engine pips than the Krait does.

However, it has very, very strong shields, and it's a small target for the enemy to hit, provided you keep your nose pointed at the target. A lot of people don't like how the pilot seat is off-center, but a lot of people also don't like the fact that the Krait's cockpit is underneath the ship.

The main advantage it has over the Krait is its two additional utility points, but this comes at the cost of a fighter bay and some firepower. However, the fast-charge bi-weave shields on my FDL are significantly stronger than the prismatic shields of my Krait, so that's definitely something to keep in mind... its shields are just unreasonably strong for a medium ship.

The other huge advantage that the Krait has (aside from its multirole abilities, such as cargo capacity) is in overall jump range... not only does it jump further in a single jump, it has a MUCH bigger fuel tank. The FDL runs out of fuel after two jumps while the Krait can easily manage five in a row without refueling. However, the Krait is definitely a bigger target... not only are its shields weaker, you're also getting hit a lot more. If you ever do land on planets, you'll find it much easier to land in an FDL than in a Krait. I tried playing Odyssey in a Krait for awhile, and it was a nightmare.

In summary, the FDL is considered the best combat ship not because it is the best in any single category, but because it has the strongest balance of speed, maneuverability, firepower, hardpoint convergence, shield strength, and how difficult it is to hit. It's also hyper-specialized for combat and can't do anything else.

Hmm I may have to pick one up for bounties and massacres. The shield strength sounds like that alone is worth it.

[Holeypaladin]

Originally posted by Keepenater:

Originally posted by Holeypaladin:

It's faster and more agile than the Krait mk II. Firepower is overall less, and its slightly smaller distributor can choke your power if you use high energy weapons. But it has a much higher speed at 0 engine pips than the Krait does.

However, it has very, very strong shields, and it's a small target for the enemy to hit, provided you keep your nose pointed at the target. A lot of people don't like how the pilot seat is off-center, but a lot of people also don't like the fact that the Krait's cockpit is underneath the ship.

The main advantage it has over the Krait is its two additional utility points, but this comes at the cost of a fighter bay and some firepower. However, the fast-charge bi-weave shields on my FDL are significantly stronger than the prismatic shields of my Krait, so that's definitely something to keep in mind... its shields are just unreasonably strong for a medium ship.

The other huge advantage that the Krait has (aside from its multirole abilities, such as cargo capacity) is in overall jump range... not only does it jump further in a single jump, it has a MUCH bigger fuel tank. The FDL runs out of fuel after two jumps while the Krait can easily manage five in a row without refueling. However, the Krait is definitely a bigger target... not only are its shields weaker, you're also getting hit a lot more. If you ever do land on planets, you'll find it much easier to land in an FDL than in a Krait. I tried playing Odyssey in a Krait for awhile, and it was a nightmare.

In summary, the FDL is considered the best combat ship not because it is the best in any single category, but because it has the strongest balance of speed, maneuverability, firepower, hardpoint convergence, shield strength, and how difficult it is to hit. It's also hyper-specialized for combat and can't do anything else.

Hmm I may have to pick one up for bounties and massacres. The shield strength sounds like that alone is worth it.

I do keep trying to look for an alternative to the FDL for combat, but then I get back in the FDL and realize it's... just better.

However, I'll probably build a better Krait build for when I want to bring a fighter to the battlefield, or for when I want to fight more than 30 lightyears from my carrier. I have a FGS for that purpose (much larger fuel tank than the FDL), but it's slower than the Krait, has weaker shields (although it does have more firepower), and has slightly worse hardpoint convergence on its small hardpoints.

[Keepenater]

Originally posted by Holeypaladin:

Originally posted by Keepenater:

Hmm I may have to pick one up for bounties and massacres. The shield strength sounds like that alone is worth it.

I do keep trying to look for an alternative to the FDL for combat, but then I get back in the FDL and realize it's... just better.

However, I'll probably build a better Krait build for when I want to bring a fighter to the battlefield, or for when I want to fight more than 30 lightyears from my carrier. I have a FGS for that purpose (much larger fuel tank than the FDL), but it's slower than the Krait, has weaker shields (although it does have more firepower), and has slightly worse hardpoint convergence on its small hardpoints.

I don’t have to worry too much about convergence as I only play and only have interest in PVE. As such I usually only use gimballed myself. I thoroughly enjoyed rails but hated having very limited ammo. I might make a fuel consuming plasma slug rail build for my Krait since it has a good fuel tank but we’ll see. I would have to sacrifice my super pens and my feedback cascade then and those are just too damn good. I also have no interest in sacrificing my range for higher capacity. As a result I only use the rails on quick take down missions. Krait is great with railguns.

I may try pacifiers eventually as I feel the Krait may be decent with them too. I have no trouble staying right in my opponents face but I gotta spend a month to get them. Working on cytos right now. Looking forward to finally having those. Gonna be dope I think.

[sergioosh]

Originally posted by Keepenater:

I may try pacifiers eventually as I feel the Krait may be decent with them too. I have no trouble staying right in my opponents face but I gotta spend a month to get them. Working on cytos right now. Looking forward to finally having those. Gonna be dope I think.

Well, 4 pacis is better than 3 pacis ;)
Seriously though, you need to keep in mind that Krait MK2 can have more quality-of-life improvements due to generous (in comparison) internal modules. SLFs, fuel scoop, FSD booster, and still plenty of space left for whatever you want to stick in it.

[sergioosh]

Originally posted by Holeypaladin:

And it's what I decided to do, after building and engineering a PMK2 that I might never use again. Had anyone mentioned its bad convergence prior to my own testing the way I've done here, it might have saved me the time and effort to build it.

Again, no one mentions it, because it's not really a problem. You're literally the first person I've seen complaining about it.

If anything, it's the restrictive PD and PP that's the actual issue and limiting factor.

[Holeypaladin]

Originally posted by sergioosh:

Originally posted by Holeypaladin:

And it's what I decided to do, after building and engineering a PMK2 that I might never use again. Had anyone mentioned its bad convergence prior to my own testing the way I've done here, it might have saved me the time and effort to build it.

Again, no one mentions it, because it's not really a problem. You're literally the first person I've seen complaining about it.

If anything, it's the restrictive PD and PP that's the actual issue and limiting factor.

If it's "not a problem," you should be able to make an AX build that uses Guardian gauss guns to shoot Thargoid hearts. Because this is the sort of precision convergence that you need with fixed weaponry.

Has anyone even tried such a build, yet?

[sergioosh]

Originally posted by Holeypaladin:

Originally posted by sergioosh:

Again, no one mentions it, because it's not really a problem. You're literally the first person I've seen complaining about it.

If anything, it's the restrictive PD and PP that's the actual issue and limiting factor.

If it's "not a problem," you should be able to make an AX build that uses Guardian gauss guns to shoot Thargoid hearts. Because this is the sort of precision convergence that you need with fixed weaponry.

Has anyone even tried such a build, yet?

I don't do AX, so can't say for sure. From the little I know, at the very least, it can fit 2 gauss cannons and multiple shard cannons. Considering a lot of people use Krait MK2s for AX, I guess it's possible? IDK how the fact it has very few internals by comparison translate. Could be the biggest issue for AX. Then again, I've seen people do AX in FDLs xD

[ждун]

Originally posted by Holeypaladin:

If you're content to use gimballed lasers and multicannons, then sure, convergence doesn't matter. But if you want to use rails or plasmas, it does. Especially when shooting at Vultures. My entire point in this topic is that bad convergence ships like the PMK2 require you to use gimballed laser/multicannon builds, which I find boring. I kill high-ranked NPCs a whole lot faster with an absolute damage FDL, and it's also more fun.

You simply got used too much to a plasma / rail FDL.

The Python MK2 is much more deadly, as long you don't try to equip and fly it as plasma / rail FDL. P2 with plasma / rail will definetelly suck, not only because of convergence but also because of underdimensioned power supply and because of issues with heat.

just don't try to make rail / plasma FDL out of it and don't fly it like FDL.

You must understand you choose a weapon-set first, then chose the platform for these weapons, and not vice versa. For plasmas / rails P2 is simply not the ideal platform, its one of the worst thing you can do with plasmas and rails mounting them on Python 2.

And once again, Python 2 shines in close range combat with frags. You must fight with it from distances no more then 500m. You fly it completely different, not like FDL. In close range combat convergence of frags is pretty much irrelevant. In close range combat it will be extremelly deadly, much more deadly than FDL with plasmas / rails can ever be.

Also you don't care about chaffs with 4x pacifiers as your main damage battery.

My suggestion: If you really want to fly P2, forget about rails and plasma, use frags.
Or if you really want to use rails and plasma, and close range is not for you, then stick with FDL.