In response to the Colonization news stream...

[Silas]

10LY is not enough range. With fleet carriers being a part of the game and having a range of 500LY per jump, it is too limited to allow players to really claim the systems they want to deep out in the black. Yes the understanding of wanting to build out systems to make daisy chains is understandable, but that limits where people can set up exponentially and basically hamstrings the player-base into developing EXCLUSIVELY THE BUBBLE.

It would be better to increase the limit to at least 100ly. Some of us have been scouting out new worlds a thousand plus light years away. Personally my group has a nice bubble roughly 1900ly away with multiple ELWs that we want to build out. We already made peace with the idea that we would have to build stations in between for the sake of logistics and keeping a supply chain, but having them every 5-10ly would be a frivolous and painful task.

Please... Frontier... reconsider the 10ly limit you have stated in the news stream.

[funkynutz]

Depends how much work/time it takes to colonise a system.

If a player can get a basic foothold setup solo (and it sounds like that might be possible) in a week (I'm probably being very optimistic there lol), then it's probably a good idea to keep range low.

Then again if it takes a couple of dozen commanders months; I'd say 50 - 100 might be better.

Don't forget, there's already a few colonised systems outside the bubble that we'll be able to expand from...

[Sighman]

Originally posted by Tycus:

Please... Frontier... reconsider the 10ly limit you have stated in the news stream.

A) they're going to let us play on the beta servers first and see how it goes.
B) Arf said they can change the 10 ly, it's just a suggested starting number

Did you watch the whole segment?

[Un1k0rn]

I doubt Frontier are going to take much feedback too seriously until the beta goes live.

That's fair, to be honest. I wouldn't either as frankly, we've no idea how long it will take to build even that first station.

It's far too soon to be making any grand statement of opinion just yet.

[Silas]

Originally posted by Sighman:

Originally posted by Tycus:

Please... Frontier... reconsider the 10ly limit you have stated in the news stream.

A) they're going to let us play on the beta servers first and see how it goes.
B) Arf said they can change the 10 ly, it's just a suggested starting number

Did you watch the whole segment?

Yes, and It is an attempt to make them reconsider the stated 10ly jump range. It will not be enough, and being incredibly rough or trashing them isn't going to get a considerable amount of traction. Thus, going on to a forum and making a case for a longer jump range that they have proposed is what I have done.

Satisfied?

[spam]

I think it is far better to start low and increase range later than to start with a higher number and nerf it later. Will be interesting to see just how intensive colonization is going to be. I think that's going to be more interesting than the range limits.

[funkynutz]

Originally posted by Tycus:

Originally posted by Sighman:

A) they're going to let us play on the beta servers first and see how it goes.
B) Arf said they can change the 10 ly, it's just a suggested starting number

Did you watch the whole segment?

Yes, and It is an attempt to make them reconsider the stated 10ly jump range. It will not be enough, and being incredibly rough or trashing them isn't going to get a considerable amount of traction. Thus, going on to a forum and making a case for a longer jump range that they have proposed is what I have done.

Satisfied?

Until we know how fast it will move; we can't make a good argument for any specific jump range.

I agree: 10 sounds low... However, I'm willing to wait until we have more information...

I am already thinking of putting together a colonisation initiative, to build a bridge of systems out to a blue planetary nebula east of the bubble (forgot the system name, sorry... it's on the way to the Statue of Liberty nebula if anyone else remembers it?).

[Un1k0rn]

Originally posted by spam:

I think it is far better to start low and increase range later than to start with a higher number and nerf it later. Will be interesting to see just how intensive colonization is going to be. I think that's going to be more interesting than the range limits.

It's always easier to give than it is to take.

That's important to consider.

Let's say that it started at 100ly, but it became apparent that it was just making it far too easy and quick to reach say, the crab nebula.

The move would be to reduce the range, but now you have people upset as it will now take them longer to reach their goals.

The opposite will be, mostly, met with approval, as you only quicken that process, not slow it down.

[Sighman]

It's going to be available on a Beta server first. It doesn't matter what they (or we) say now, they're going to see what players do in the new year and take it all on board.

People were complaining about the 10 ly on chat and Arf responded to it right away. They already know 10 ly is too low, and I'm sure it'll be more like 20 in the final version.

Just look at the furore over Powerplay 2 merits, which were buffed almost straight away. Now you hardly hear one complaint about them, whereas if they'd started with the higher value people would still be moaning about level 100 taking too long. AND they're still going to adjust the ranks at which the modules are unlocked.

[Agony_Aunt]

It was funny seeing Arf talk about players building strings of systems out into the black and Piers kind of going along with it, but clearly not seeing the same picture.

At a range of 10LY, assuming a group could do 1 system a week on average, then it would take years to expand tens of thousands of LY out.... assuming anyone would be willing to put that must constant effort in.

And even then, they would be limited in direction of expansion. I don't think you can cross the galactic arms with just 10LY range.

[Silas]

Originally posted by Agony_Aunt:

It was funny seeing Arf talk about players building strings of systems out into the black and Piers kind of going along with it, but clearly not seeing the same picture.

At a range of 10LY, assuming a group could do 1 system a week on average, then it would take years to expand tens of thousands of LY out.... assuming anyone would be willing to put that must constant effort in.

And even then, they would be limited in direction of expansion. I don't think you can cross the galactic arms with just 10LY range.

Yeah theres a reason I want at least 100ly. that would still be a month if it took my group a day or two to knock out one system to go the 1900ly distant area we want.

[The Dweller]

Originally posted by spam:

Will be interesting to see just how intensive colonization is going to be.

Set the colonisation cost to 40 billion credits, 1000 units of each material, and the "intensity" will suddenly not be an issue.



Go back to mining rhodplumsite... slave.

[spam]

Originally posted by The Dweller:

Originally posted by spam:

Will be interesting to see just how intensive colonization is going to be.

Set the colonisation cost to 40 billion credits, 1000 units of each material, and the "intensity" will suddenly not be an issue.

I was thinking something more all-encompassing. Lots of credits, fully mapped, all bios sampled, lots of raw materials and industrial supplies, lots of food, many transportation runs to get the colonists there, many battles to keep the colonists from being picked off by pirates, etc.

Colonization is big enough they could probably throw in most existing game loops into the process. Maybe just the credits and some industrial equipment to make a springboard, and the full gamut of activities to build a complete colony.

[The Dweller]

Originally posted by spam:

I was thinking something more all-encompassing. Lots of credits, fully mapped, all bios sampled, lots of raw materials and industrial supplies, lots of food, many transportation runs to get the colonists there, many battles to keep the colonists from being picked off by pirates, etc.

Colonization is big enough they could probably throw in most existing game loops into the process. Maybe just the credits and some industrial equipment to make a springboard, and the full gamut of activities to build a complete colony.

Yes, I would most definitely enjoy taking the colonisation process to the next level like that, even further, which my imagination isn´t allowing me to envision at the moment. Force-locking a Class M 3-rocky-ice-world system into memory, infusing it with character while also deterring the diseased number-chasers who won´t even as much as glance at the system map after tagging the system, as they´ll already be tagging the next 20 in the meantime.

[Jeebs]

Originally posted by Agony_Aunt:

It was funny seeing Arf talk about players building strings of systems out into the black and Piers kind of going along with it, but clearly not seeing the same picture.

At a range of 10LY, assuming a group could do 1 system a week on average, then it would take years to expand tens of thousands of LY out.... assuming anyone would be willing to put that must constant effort in.

And even then, they would be limited in direction of expansion. I don't think you can cross the galactic arms with just 10LY range.

I think the idea is to expand the bubble though, not colonize out to random systems. I'd like to think of this as the first step in a larger system. Limiting it to expanding the bubble first to see what folks do with that makes sense to me.

Once they've worked out the kinks, perhaps we'll see some ways to colonize further out become the next feature. I'm sure every explorer dreams of finding that oasis in the black that could become the next Colonia. I like the idea as much as the next guy, of course.

However, personally, I would prefer if this was restricted to a group effort thing (even though I lone-wolf it 99% of the time). Starting a new colony far out from civilization should be a monumental undertaking that requires the concerted efforts of several pilots, in my opinion.

Would be cool if they did something like PP but for colonization and the like. Various factions and corporations dedicated to colonizing new systems. Each one has a megaship that can be directed to a specific system by Frontier, allowing commanders to colonize within range of it. It can move on to a new system every few months.

I don't know how long it takes to terraform a world in Elite, but if it's only a matter of a few years, it would be cool if we could have a hand in that too. Deliver goods to contribute to the progress, sort of thing. Could be part of the same thing. Another way to influence and help shape the galaxy for those who want something more laid back than powerplay.

[Sabertom]

I haven't seen the stream, but I was already sceptical when I first heard about colonization that exactly these demands would come...

For me, ED is the only game where you have the feeling of discovering new worlds alone in the middle of nowhere. Making it so easy to colonize systems far away from the bubble would kill that feeling in my eyes. Even if you "only" encounter a station every 1000 LY or so.

And as soon as it's possible to build stations, a lot of players will be clamoring for exactly that. Or they already are. The carriers were also once intended as a community project for squads. Now everyone can easily afford one playing solo... the same will probably happen with stations. Even if it will take another 1-2 years...

If there is colonization, then please do it as Jeebs described: as one (!) big community project and not every man for himself across the whole galaxy. Otherwise its byebye "going into the black", hello "going into the christmas tree"