recently got back into game and want to try combat for once... help me pick a ship?

[[59th] Pew Pew You're Dead]

I have 280mil credits but not unlocked engineering (going to do some basics over the next few days but last time I stopped playing was due to PK after spending a day doing felicity lol). what's a good beginner ship for learning combat? Been using a vulture but the power plant is too low for me without engineering and I'm not doing enough damage with my firepoints (max 2).
I had the idea of making a pirate ship who could target enemy powerplay (PvE) mining ships and is strong enough to fight off security forces and enemy pirates too, would the python mk2 or mk 1 be better for this? Or should I just bite the bullet and buy FDL? I already own a Krait II for mining/trade so I'm probably not going to pick that up, and my Vulture is too similar to a Mamba for me to want that.

[Un1k0rn]

FDL isn't what comes to mind for piracy, due to low cargo space.

I'm not sure how a Python Mk II would fare but the Mk I would be a fine choice. After all, a pirate ship is really just a trade ship with a few guns strapped to it for robbery.

[funkynutz]

If you're new to combat in Elite, start with something small (and cheap to rebuy).

Viper 3 is good at running away if you get into trouble, just hit the boost button. And learning when to run away is vital if you plan on surviving in larger ships.

DBS is good if you want to try your hand at cold orbit techniques.

Imperial courier has the second strongest shields of the small ships. Fast and agile... Use high powered fixed weapons like frags, railguns or plasmas.

Then there's my personal favourite... The Vulture. Not quite as fast as the other two, but very agile, and it punches well above it's weight class. Strongest shields of all the small ships too.

[[59th] Pew Pew You're Dead]

Originally posted by funkynutz:

If you're new to combat in Elite, start with something small (and cheap to rebuy).

Viper 3 is good at running away if you get into trouble, just hit the boost button. And learning when to run away is vital if you plan on surviving in larger ships.

DBS is good if you want to try your hand at cold orbit techniques.

Imperial courier has the second strongest shields of the small ships. Fast and agile... Use high powered fixed weapons like frags, railguns or plasmas.

Then there's my personal favourite... The Vulture. Not quite as fast as the other two, but very agile, and it punches well above it's weight class. Strongest shields of all the small ships too.

thanks for the advice but i already have a vulture and i don't like its lack of power (even with my 4A i can't even power shield boosters + hardpoints (which are only 3C) without engineering and i only have level 3 shields when the ship can take up to level 6)

Originally posted by Un1k0rn:

FDL isn't what comes to mind for piracy, due to low cargo space.

I'm not sure how a Python Mk II would fare but the Mk I would be a fine choice. After all, a pirate ship is really just a trade ship with a few guns strapped to it for robbery.

interestin.
what's a good loadout that isn't just gimballed gatling gun + static laser?
i never used stuff like missiles etc. but they looked fun once you learn how to use them
also is there any vids anywhere for advice on non-flight assisted piloting?

[dwizar]

The Vulture is a very capable ship but require exceptional piloting to take down difficult targets before they get you. Small ships like it are great at forcing you to get better and learn manoeuvering - they're fun, but they're not easy.

Engineering gives an insane advantage in combat; not only does it boosts stats by a huge amount, but the experimentals also wreck your opponents ability to fight back. They are not required per-se, but engineered ships are vastly superior and give the mechanical advantage. The engineering grind has been improved recently but it unfortunately still ain't super fun.

For a dedicated combat ship, I still prefer the FDL over the dozen others I've tried. It has great hardpoints that are well positioned, enough power and room for a million shield boosters, and is agile enough to zoom around the big ships. It has no cargo and no jump range though, so it only makes sense to be engineered as a war machine.

For a multi-purpose ship, the Python (and its Krait cousins) are still king. They can be equipped for and perform well at everything in the game. I've never done piracy like you describe, but I would also consider the faction medium ships like the Chieftain.

Remember that you can sell anything back for 95% value, so you can try any ship and modules for as long as you like, then sell it all back for a 5% fee. It gets trickier when you start investing engineering mats into modules but you're not concerned with that.

If you haven't looked into it yet, you can probably squeeze out an extra 15% power for your Vulture by adjusting the power priorities. Set it to disable the hatch, the computers, the FSD, etc, when your weapons are deployed and that's more juice for bigger guns.

[dwizar]

There's a lot to weapons in general.

Fixed always do the most damage... but they require that the pilot can actually put guns on target, which is not always that easy. Great pilots make it sounds like this is the only viable option but its not - use gimballed if you like.

Gimballed trade a bit of DPS for forward-tracking abilities. I find its the best option for most weapons of the average pilot.

Turrets can shoot in virtually all angle, even behind - but they deal significantly reduced damage and their target acquisition is slowest, so they lose a lot of DPS. They are almost never used except for secondary experimental effects delivery on large ships.

Thermal damage is great against shield but poor against hull. Kinetic damage is poor against shield but great against hull. Explosive is poor against shield but great against hull and modules (penetration). Use thermal when the shield's up, then switch to kinetic (or explosive). Plasma and railguns are good against both and/or can penetrate through, but are fixed-only and have some power/thermal drawbacks.

Engineering provides improved damage, thermal relief on the lasers, can increase your weapons range to 6km, and also disrupt your opponents ship, making them easy prey.

My one-size-fits-all generic solution is to start with half (Efficient, Scramble) burst laser, half (Overcharged, Corrosive) multi-cannon, and work from there. Explosives are fun but kind of niche; the limited ammo keep me from using them more. Railguns are a great addition and they let you destroy modules - if you can put rounds on target. Plasma Chargers are also good, but they're even harder to aim because of the slow projectiles. Frags does high damage in small range, I find them useful for jousting and have been using them with the Drag experimental, which kills their thrusters just as they want to dash away.

I watch a lot of tutorials from "Down to Earth Astronomy", "Hawkes Gaming", and others on youtube - there's a lot of knowledge out there.

[[59th] Pew Pew You're Dead]

i have 200 hours in the game so its not like im brand new.
i already messed with the power config but it doesn't help me out I have to disable shield boost if i want my hardpoints to work or else I only get the laser or the multi cannon not both.
i'm going to be flying empire so chief won't be an option im afraid.
otherwise thanks for the tips. i'm probably going to have 3 laser 2 gatling 1 torpedo as my loadout

[Sighman]

Krait Mk II is my goto medium-sized combat ship. (I love the lethal little Vulture as an all-rounder, but that one does need engineering)

Here's an outline for a simple Krait combat build, no engineering required:

Biggest shield you can fit. 3 x biggest gimballed multis. 2 beams in the smaller hardpoints.
Hull reinforcements, and 1 or 2 module reinforcements.
Size 3 multi limpet that has a collector on it. (mining multi for example)
Size 4 or 5 cargo hold for limpets.

Utilities:
Kill warrant scanner if you have the spare power.
Point defence on the bottom if you're collecting escape pods/etc.
Fill the rest with shield boosts.
Optional wake scanner.

Optional: size 5 fighter bay and NPC pilot as cannon fodder.

Bind the KWS to the same button + fire group as your multis
After blowing up NPCs you can send out a limpet or two to gather the materials.
You can use the wake scanner on departed ships to get encoded materials.

Go to a Resource Extraction Site Low where you will overpower all enemy ships. Make sure they're Wanted (lower left) before you open fire.

If you don't want fines, don't pick up discarded cargo.

[Sighman]

Originally posted by 59th Pew Pew You're Dead:

i have 200 hours in the game so its not like im brand new.
i already messed with the power config but it doesn't help me out I have to disable shield boost if i want my hardpoints to work or else I only get the laser or the multi cannon not both.

Set the FSD to lowest power priority, as you don't need that when fighting. When you stow your hardpoints the FSD will power up.

You can also disable the cargo hatch if you don't have a cargo hold.

[Holeypaladin]

Krait II is probably the best medium combat ship without engineering. FDL can outperform it with engineering, but the power plant and distributor are far too underpowered if you haven't unlocked engineering. Plus, the Krait can make a lot of jumps before you need to worry about refueling.

I recommend fixed weapons, since it has very good convergence and NPCs love to spam chaff.

[dwizar]

Are faction ships now restricted because of PP2 or something? I'm allied with all 3 factions and can fly all their ships, I think the Chieftain would still be available.

I prefer Missiles over Torpedoes because even the biggest pods gives a max of 4 torpedoes; they're stronger but are just as vulnerable to Point Defence, Chaff, and ECMS. Mines are also generally a wasted slot; I've really tried making them work and still carry them on my jumpship but I don't think I ever hit anything with them. Missiles work, both seekers and dumbs, and carry enough capacity for a few targets - but they'll inevitably be the first to run out. And if you're not into engineering yet, you might not have the mats to synthesise ammo on the spot. Missiles also work against the on-foot Odyssey settlements - that's what I use my Vulture for, nowadays.

Lasers are a scale. Pulse are slightly weaker but easiest on the power/thermal, Burst are average, and Beam is slightly stronger and has a slightly longer range. Beams will normally heat you up very quick, but the Thermal Vent experimental can flip it and make the weapon cool you instead - which basically gives infinite thermal to your entire ship.

I have kit a Vulture how I would do it for my first attempt at piracy. I only used standard parts and leave the QoL modules in. Power is a struggle, but the 4A shield+1booster(395) gives slightly more than a 5A+0booster(389), and can be pushed to 4A+2boosters(460) by giving up just one of the computers. I wouldn't use a Vulture for piracy, though. https://s.orbis.zone/qD3P

The Krait you already have is a better starting point and doesn't struggle with power. My weaponry, reinforcements, and the SLF might be a meme; but it highlights how easy it is to outfit. https://s.orbis.zone/qD3Y

My current anti-piracy FDL looks something like this and it wins all my battles for me. I hate its look, but I wouldn't dare telling it. https://s.orbis.zone/qD4O

There really isn't a perfect ship though; I've spent many hours on Coriolis and reading guides to find which ships have an edge and it always boils down to "it depends". Ultimately, it only costs a few millions to try and find what works for you. I cannot stress enough how much value one gets back for putting up with the engineering grind though.

[Sighman]

Originally posted by dwizar:

I cannot stress enough how much value one gets back for putting up with the engineering grind though.

They got rid of the grind recently. Sure, you have to unlock one or two engineers, but you don't have to go from 'unengineered combat ship' to 'fully G5 engineered combat ship' in one step.

Upgrade bits and pieces by a grade or two. Enjoy the benefits. Upgrade something a bit more along the way.

Don't grind.