Got rekt by a Viper MKIII

[Mofoso]

Hey, is there something special i should know about weapons and armour ? I mean... i've got a Vulture very well fitted ( in my opinion ) with two lazers C3 and a player just rekt me with his Viper and he did not even had a shield... I don't really understand how is it possible ... i mean my vulture is worth something like 25M with all the equipement and his Viper is only 140k..
I didn't play to much those past few months but i saw a new system of "craft" for ammunition ?

[Singrave]

Why you keep talking about AI and NPCs when OP stated that was a player?
Are you ok there?

Mofoso | Kickback.com a écrit :

i've got a Vulture very well fitted ( in my opinion ) with two lazers C3 and a player just rekt me with his Viper and he did not even had a shield...

[still__alive]

I'm Helping! a écrit :

NPC chaff also blocks your kill warrant and cargo scanners. Guess what doesn't work on NPCs.

Your point on ammo weaponry vs not is also a longtanding thing for players compared to NPCs. An NPC doesn't have to drop everything to go reload, before returning to what they were doing.

Even I can agree that the NPC AI is just as questionable as all the Deadly and Elite NPC haulers I see. But you can only go so far with NPC cheats before they just become incredibly flagrant.

Enemies not having ammo issues is something you don't really care about, across most games. Up until you are fighting them and they are spamming their Low Ammo High Damage weaponry at you, it's an easy to understand consession that doesn't even "Break immersion".

Then you have magical cheating scanners. Where even if you bust your *** popping chaff, using silent running, heatsinks, and insane maneuvers NPCs can still successfully scan you. In half the time it takes you to scan something.

But NPCS can just pop a chaff and laugh as your kill warrant or cargo scanner is blocked. And that's just straight up BS. But people just go "Oh but the AI is dumb so it's okay shut up" even though the degree of intelligence of the AI has nothing do do with that matter.

Then you get someone suggesting "LOL just turn your back to the sun so they fall into it when you enter a new system" about multiple mission NPC interdictors. Because of course, THEN it's okay to have the AI be dumb, so long as you are using it to excuse their obvious cheating and telling someone to L2P (by abusing the AI) at the same time.

Yeah the cheating AI is extremely disappointing to me. It's made worse by the design of the game which makes it harder to find good PvP fights. There are some interesting (combat/stealth) mechanics in the game that are mostly useless to bother with because of the fact that the AI cheats.

[Paragon]

Mofoso | Kickback.com a écrit :

http://coriolis.io/outfit/vulture/24A4D4A3D5A4B3C0u0u05050h-450368252h.Iw19kA==.Aw19kA==

there is my ship

Yes, i should be more careful about other players, and try to make some PVP loadout

Your loadout is "strange" to say the very least. You should change it up if you want to stand a chance vs players.

Personally I use this loadout: http://coriolis.io/outfit/vulture/24A5A4A3D5A4D3C1e1e00000404B22b272525.AwRj4zyA.Aw19kA==

[WreckWren]

The Vulture's real advantage is that weapons lower than C3 have a damage penalty against larger hulls.

The Viper may have two mediums, but it also has 2 smalls and the Vulture is not a large ship by any means. Those C3 hardpoints aren't anywhere near as much of an advantage against a smaller ship, especially since the Vulture is a heavy fighter - an Eagle, Viper & especially a Courier can absolutely wreck a Vulture just based on manoeuvrability alone.

[Mighty]

Hey OP,
Vulture really not a great ship for pvp. I mean you can do it but you need agility and burst.

Against a viper I'm not surprised yu got rektd.

Here is footage of my viper from last year. I destroyed ships that cost 100 million and loads of vulture's. Check it out.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLgbGmQQpZyu1GU1quoaopSYplMmmwEB0t

[Turih]

Mighty a écrit :

Hey OP,
Vulture really not a great ship for pvp.

This guy knows whats up.

Also ppl tend to perceive ships without shield generator fragile. This is the biggest mistake you can make when underestimating a player. Not to mention how Hull Reinforcement Packages have been buffed.

[Steve]

Wrecked*

You're welcome ;)

[golan]

A player capable of flying with assistance off can outmanoeuvre larger ships. If they can also aim better, they can combine support utilities to deflect locking and equip fixed mounts to do max amount of damage whenever the shot is aligned. A player who can max out DPS can easily take down ships 1 level above their class.

E:D's PvP is like a boxing match, you have to keep moving, avoid big punches and take any opportunity you have to strike back. If you make too many mistakes or if you're too slow, it doesn't matter that you pack a heavier punch. It's hard though to comment on this specific battle because OP needs to provide more details.

[Zi]

lol, I just saw this, friend sent me:

https://youtu.be/8umAuCmqdo4

About viper mk3 ;)

[GeneralWayne]

Mofoso | Kickback.com a écrit :

http://coriolis.io/outfit/vulture/24A4D4A3D5A4B3C0u0u05050h-450368252h.Iw19kA==.Aw19kA==

there is my ship

Yes, i should be more careful about other players, and try to make some PVP loadout

No offense, but that is the worst Vulture loadout I've ever seen. You should definitely change that.
Here's a build I'd recommend you: http://coriolis.io/outfit/vulture/24A5A4A3B5A4B3C1d1d000002044a2b276625.Iw19kA==.CwBhCYy6oZjIA===

It's works for PvE and PvP (if you want a PvP build you can switch a laser for a fragment cannon)

If you have any questions about the build, ask me :)

[Mofoso]

I've changed many things and now it looks like that :) http://coriolis.io/outfit/vulture/24A4D4A3D5A4C3C0v0v0n-04044a2b276825.AwRj4yVI.Aw1-AzAjMQ==

[still__alive]

Mofoso | Kickback.com a écrit :

I've changed many things and now it looks like that :) http://coriolis.io/outfit/vulture/24A4D4A3D5A4C3C0v0v0n-04044a2b276825.AwRj4yVI.Aw1-AzAjMQ==

Try this: http://coriolis.io/outfit/vulture/24A5D4A3D5A4D3C1e1e0n0404044a2b276825.AwRj4zyA.CwBhCYzBGWTkBmRIg===

I downgraded your 4C sensors to 4D sensors.

I also switched your gimballed beams to gimballed pulse lasers. According to the website your dps will stay the same, but I think in reality it might be higher with pulse lasers because they don't drain your capacitor so fast and thus you can fire them quite a bit longer than the beams. EDIT: Don't quote me on that though, I don't know how all that stuff is calculated. I've tried both beams and pulse on my vulture though and I only run pulse now.

I also added a third 0A shield booster, so my tweaks give you 619 shields vs your 542. By setting the power priorities, and swapping the beams for pulse, you have enough power to run this setup. With my priorities, keep in mind that the FSD will shut off in combat, so if you must run you have to account for the several seconds it will take the FSD to turn back on.

[funkynutz]

Mofoso | Kickback.com a écrit :

http://coriolis.io/outfit/vulture/24A4D4A3D5A4B3C0u0u05050h-450368252h.Iw19kA==.Aw19kA==

there is my ship

Yes, i should be more careful about other players, and try to make some PVP loadout

Pretty lame for a Vulture build to be honest. 4D thrusters mean you're very slow, and you won't manoeuvre anywhere near as well you should be able to in the Vulture.

And when I say it's slow... I mean it's REALLY ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ SLOW! My Python could outrun your current setup.

A viper can and will run rings around you in that ship, it'll be out of range of your lasers before you've even got a proper bead on them. Dual fixed beams are going to drain your weapons capacitor very quickly, as well as making you overheat. On top of that they're hard to use against small fast ships like the Viper, even more so when you've got crappy thrusters and can't turn properly. Try something like this out for size:

http://coriolis.io/outfit/vulture/24A5A4A3D5A4A3C0v1n00000202B2326b082f.AwRj41TUg===.EwBhEYy62OSA?bn=hunter

I actually run that build, but with a Plasma Accelerator instead of the cannon. Get used to using the cannon first though, the PA alongside the beam is a massive energy drain and causes a lot of heat if not managed properly.

[ImHelping]

ΩFunkynutZΩ a écrit :

Mofoso | Kickback.com a écrit :

http://coriolis.io/outfit/vulture/24A4D4A3D5A4B3C0u0u05050h-450368252h.Iw19kA==.Aw19kA==

there is my ship

Yes, i should be more careful about other players, and try to make some PVP loadout

Pretty lame for a Vulture build to be honest. 4D thrusters mean you're very slow, and you won't manoeuvre anywhere near as well you should be able to in the Vulture. A viper could run rings around you, out of range of your lasers before you've even got a proper bead on them. Dual fixed beams are going to drain your weapons capacitor very quickly, as well as making you overheat. On top of that they're hard to use against small fast ships like the Viper, even more so when you've got crappy thrusters and can't turn properly. Try something like this out for size:

http://coriolis.io/outfit/vulture/24A5A4A3D5A4A3C0v1n00000202B2326b082f.AwRj41TUg===.EwBhEYy62OSA?bn=hunter

I love putting fuel scoops on things but a 4A fuel scoop is pretty overkill on a Vulture, especially if you are skipping armor reinforcements entirely in favor of it.

What is the Auto maintenance unit supposed to even cover? If you need to turn it on in a fight you're probably dead already in a Vulture. I could see the use on larger ships with room and power to spare, but here? Particularly for someone not already Pro PvP guy?

Vulture only needs a Class 1 fuel scoop for not terrible scoop times (I've found "3:30 minutes to full" results in builders to be that sweet spot of useful speed but not wasting bigger slots JUST for instant scooping).

Totally go with Class 4 Hull reinforcement, unless you have some particular real need for that slot for something else (I know sometimes I pop a cargo hold in there for quick mission multitasking in PvE. Even if that is way less combat optimal).

I do agree that better thrusters is a good idea. But you can manage that just by dropping a Shield booster on the previous build (Shield accessories are some of the higher drain items in the game).

You can get by just fine with B thrusters on a Vulture at least. A Thrusters is bleeding edge credits and power plant to spare on a Vulture. If you can't pull B off, at least Try for C thrusters minimum.

EDIT: a 2D Interdiction is also much more build friendly than a 2A. Unless you really really need that extra range in supercruise. you go for ramped up interdiction devices when you already KNOW you will have power to spare, and also are going to be doing a ton of interdiction rather than "It's good to make sure you have one".

Also somebody needs to remind the OP that the Gimballed Beam laser can be used to shoot at people who pop chaff by canceling your target lock (hitscan weapon, after all).

A lot of build stuff I see is taken for granted when presented to a "New guy".

Like buying doubled up Chaff/Heatsink launchers and then turning of the spares in the power listings. I know why, you know why, he might not know why.

[funkynutz]

I'm Helping! a écrit :

I love putting fuel scoops on things but a 4A fuel scoop is pretty overkill on a Vulture, especially if you are skipping armor reinforcements entirely in favor of it.

I don't like to spend a lot of time refueling. Espeically if I'm flying with a group of ships who have better jump range than me (a lot of my wingmates are flying Asps). 20 seconds to a full tank is much more preferable to 3 minutes, also means if I scoop at every jump I can I rarely spend more than a few seconds scooping ;)

If I was staying in an area for a while or at least not travelling very far then I'd probably drop something else in. I've ran it with SCBs (before I started using the PA), I've ran it with hull reinforcements, I've used it for cargo space and so on... But I spend most of my time in game flying with a bunch of Asps who like to go bounty hunting in various places... So the 4A fuelscoop is a godsend for me...

Also the fact that the fuel scoop doesn't weigh anything lets me jump that little bit further, and a lightweight Vulture is faster than a heavy Vulture (I went for a balance of speed vs strength).

Arnour? Military grade bulkheads, don't need any more than that. Unless you're sitting still, or flying in straight lines the Vulture doesn't get shot that much. It can change direction that quickly that fixed weapons become a real problem for anyone trying to shoot you, but even turrets and gimbals have trouble hitting you if you can move effectively (and of course chaff helps).

I see why some people prefer to throw in hull reinforcements, but I don't plan on sitting around long enough to take that much damage ;)

What is the Auto maintenance unit supposed to even cover? If you need to turn it on in a fight you're probably dead already in a Vulture. I could see the use on larger ships with room and power to spare, but here? Particularly for someone not already Pro PvP guy?

I wouldn't dream of turning the AFM on during combat. After taking on a wing of 5 though in a hazres, or mashing it up against another player, I find it useful to back away from the fight for a few seconds to repair any damaged modules and recharge shields. Then straight back into the fight without having to run away to a station for repairs.

I do agree that better thrusters is a good idea. But you can manage that just by dropping a Shield booster on the previous build (Shield accessories are some of the higher drain items in the game).

I don't use shield boosters on the Vulture anyway, don't need them... Dual chaff and HSL allows me to stay in combat longer, spend more time running cold (or just keep firing my beam and PA that little bit longer against particularly tough oponents).

PVP? I'll take on player corvettes in my Vulture build (though it takes a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ age to do any damage if they keep popping SCBs!)... ;)

And how is a 2D interdictor a better choice than a 2A one? It's lighter... There's no other reason to use 2D instead of 2A. Have you ever tried chasing someone down? Even with the 2A I still have to spend time catching up to them sometimes...

I'm actually flying a FAS at the minute, and yes it's a tank, yes it does more damage, yes it's pretty quick... But I still prefer my Vulture, it's a lot more fun to fly...