We DESPERATELY Need Yaw Sensitivity Control

[Weaver]

I have tried many ships. I have tried many settings. Even the T-10 suffers from this issue.

Pitch: "Meh. Okay, if you really need it."
Roll: "I guess so."
Yaw: "You moved the pedals 0.0000000001", so spin, baby, spin! You're now a centrifuge!"

WHY is FA Off Yaw so ungodly sensitive? Even at top speed, with deadzones and curved inputs set on my HOTAS, even looking sideways at the rudder pedals makes you a spinning top. It's at least 100x more sensitive than Pitch or Roll. Again, I ask WHY.

There is no in-game setting that I'm aware of that can offset this comically oversensitive control. Worse yet, any time I hit any control of any kind, there appears to be at least a 50% chance of kicking myself into an uncontrollable Yaw spin. Only happens in FA Off.

No doubt the trolls will enter here. Let me cut you off right there: I have conducted station tethering exercises, asteroid dodging exercises, and combat exercises in every craft I've flown, including SLFs. Every craft has the same problem: Yaw is too sensitive, by far.

If you're going to make Pitch and Roll so slow, then please do it with Yaw as well. It's completely uncontrollable. If I could somehow pick up both my rudder pedals and the screen at the same time, I'd show you a video to prove it.

PLEASE give us a Yaw sensitivity setting. At least that would make it tolerable.

[Planewalker]

In all the years that is indeed a first for seeing someone say yaw is too sensitive.

Surely you mean roll, OP?


The setting that controls "Yaw into Roll" will do what you ask.
(you need to tweak them to your personal preference; it is hard to hit the sweet spot)

Maybe i am not understanding what you mean otherwise and that is on me.


cheers

[Weaver]

Originally posted by Planewalker:

In all the years that is indeed a first for seeing someone say yaw is too sensitive.

Surely you mean roll, OP?


The setting that controls "Yaw into Roll" will do what you ask.
(you need to tweak them to your personal preference; it is hard to hit the sweet spot)

Maybe i am not understanding what you mean otherwise and that is on me.


cheers

I did not, no. For me, it is Yaw. Pitch and Roll are relatively similar in their responsiveness, whereas Yaw is at least 100x more sensitive. I am not exaggerating in the slightest when I say a literal millimeter of movement turns me into a high-speed fan.

Yaw Into Roll is not what I want. I want Yaw and Roll to be separate functions entirely. If I Yaw, it is because I want to Yaw, not because I want to Roll.

For example, when I go to land with FA Off, it takes inches of movement of the stick to correct for rotation along the Pitch and Roll axes, whereas even just barely TOUCHING the Yaw instigates an automatic "fishtailing" where the pilot is desperately trying to come to zero rotation and failing automatically. I can "quiet the spin" with Pitch and Roll easily. I've been doing that for hundreds of hours. Yaw? It's not possible. So it's FA On for landing for me forever.

In combat? Forget about it. You even THINK about Yawing and you're spinning forever. Try to correct it and come to zero rotation? You're just spinning the other way.

Curved inputs? Bro...I have them. I have tried every setting from 0 to maximum, with no hope. Again, Pitch and Roll are perfectly controllable with curved inputs. Yaw is automatic chaos. We need a sensitivity setting for it.

[Hootman]

What stick / hotas are you using???

I've used several different HOTAS, and used both grip twist and currently using Saitek flight pedals.

Yaw has always been just fine in the ships. The twist grip is no where near as good as pedals, but that's the case flying anything. Twist grips just aren't good for that sort of thing no matter the design.

The only issue I have is pedals in the SRV, they aren't consistent there, it doesn't seem to be linear. But the ships seem fine.

[Weaver]

Originally posted by Hootman:

What stick / hotas are you using???

I've used several different HOTAS, and used both grip twist and currently using Saitek flight pedals.

Yaw has always been just fine in the ships. The twist grip is no where near as good as pedals, but that's the case flying anything. Twist grips just aren't good for that sort of thing no matter the design.

The only issue I have is pedals in the SRV, they aren't consistent there, it doesn't seem to be linear. But the ships seem fine.

Thrustmaster T16000M FCS Flight Pack. Yaw is handled with the rudder pedals along their Z axis, since the toe brakes each take up one axis and none were to spare. I bought the pack specifically because I can't stand twist yaw on the stick. I'm already controlling two axes while firing, selecting weapons, reallocating power, etc, etc, and I don't need Yaw added to that too.

Define "Just fine" for me, please. Because I'm totally fine with posting a video where I show the relative sensitivity of Pitch/Roll against Yaw. I'd just have to set up the tripod so I can get the screen, the pedals, and the stick all in one shot, to prove no cuts or edits were made. Obviously the pedals would have to be relocated from the floor to the desk to do that.

There seems to be a disconnect between what I'm saying and what folks are choosing to hear. If Yaw were "just fine," then it would have the same or similar sensitivity to Pitch and Roll. It is wildly oversensitive compared to the other two axes; such to the point where literally no person could ever believe, if they witnessed what was happening, that they were within margin of error and not some kind of glitch.

Maybe it is a flaw within the TARGET GUI software. If no one else is experiencing this problem, then that would make sense to me. But then...how would one go about killing it with fire? Because I love this game, but this problem has destroyed the concept of even thinking of using Yaw in combat. I just don't do it. I Roll and Pitch to chase now. That actually works.

EDIT: Just tried again with maximum curve on Yaw. Here were my results:

Nothing...nothing...nothing...nothing...100,000r/s spin instantly.

Same amount as Pitch and Roll (which, again, are working perfectly): "You literally grazed it with your finger, 100,000r/s spin instantly."

There is something wrong with the system. I can try using the Zoom setting to cripple the maximum input level, but that's a Hail Mary at best. I don't think I should have to do that, because it's hamstringing less-maneuverable ships by hardcapping their maximum input, and therefore their maximum rate of acceleration when rotating along the Yaw axis. It is a choice that would heavily favor more maneuverable ships and leave the heavies hanging out to dry.

Again, I say: We need configurable sensitivity levels for all three axes. I came in here asking for Yaw, but it makes sense to run it on all of them. I'm willing to entertain the possibility that it's equipment problems on my end, but that doesn't negate the issue for me. Sensitivity settings would.

EDIT II: Zoom to about 1/8 original maximum input seems to make low-level inputs at least somewhat controllable, but it removes the possibility of quickly accelerating along the Yaw axis. It's an imperfect solution, especially if I have to do a hard 180, but it is at least POSSIBLE to control.

Still calling for sensitivity settings, because at least that would allow me the full range of acceleration.

[Hootman]

Originally posted by Weaver:

Originally posted by Hootman:

What stick / hotas are you using???

I've used several different HOTAS, and used both grip twist and currently using Saitek flight pedals.

Yaw has always been just fine in the ships. The twist grip is no where near as good as pedals, but that's the case flying anything. Twist grips just aren't good for that sort of thing no matter the design.

The only issue I have is pedals in the SRV, they aren't consistent there, it doesn't seem to be linear. But the ships seem fine.

Thrustmaster T16000M FCS Flight Pack. Yaw is handled with the rudder pedals along their Z axis, since the toe brakes each take up one axis and none were to spare. I bought the pack specifically because I can't stand twist yaw on the stick. I'm already controlling two axes while firing, selecting weapons, reallocating power, etc, etc, and I don't need Yaw added to that too.

Define "Just fine" for me, please. Because I'm totally fine with posting a video where I show the relative sensitivity of Pitch/Roll against Yaw. I'd just have to set up the tripod so I can get the screen, the pedals, and the stick all in one shot, to prove no cuts or edits were made. Obviously the pedals would have to be relocated from the floor to the desk to do that.

There seems to be a disconnect between what I'm saying and what folks are choosing to hear. If Yaw were "just fine," then it would have the same or similar sensitivity to Pitch and Roll. It is wildly oversensitive compared to the other two axes; such to the point where literally no person could ever believe, if they witnessed what was happening, that they were within margin of error and not some kind of glitch.

Maybe it is a flaw within the TARGET GUI software. If no one else is experiencing this problem, then that would make sense to me. But then...how would one go about killing it with fire? Because I love this game, but this problem has destroyed the concept of even thinking of using Yaw in combat. I just don't do it. I Roll and Pitch to chase now. That actually works.

EDIT: Just tried again with maximum curve on Yaw. Here were my results:

Nothing...nothing...nothing...nothing...100,000r/s spin instantly.

Same amount as Pitch and Roll (which, again, are working perfectly): "You literally grazed it with your finger, 100,000r/s spin instantly."

There is something wrong with the system. I can try using the Zoom setting to cripple the maximum input level, but that's a Hail Mary at best. I don't think I should have to do that, because it's hamstringing less-maneuverable ships by hardcapping their maximum input, and therefore their maximum rate of acceleration when rotating along the Yaw axis. It is a choice that would heavily favor more maneuverable ships and leave the heavies hanging out to dry.

Again, I say: We need configurable sensitivity levels for all three axes. I came in here asking for Yaw, but it makes sense to run it on all of them. I'm willing to entertain the possibility that it's equipment problems on my end, but that doesn't negate the issue for me. Sensitivity settings would.

EDIT II: Zoom to about 1/8 original maximum input seems to make low-level inputs at least somewhat controllable, but it removes the possibility of quickly accelerating along the Yaw axis. It's an imperfect solution, especially if I have to do a hard 180, but it is at least POSSIBLE to control.

Still calling for sensitivity settings, because at least that would allow me the full range of acceleration.

I don't think anyone is interested in seeing a video of your issue. Sounds like you have a problem that nobody else has, or at least one that the vast majority of people don't care about.

Hope you get it sorted. because basically you're the one guy in the middle of a crowd at a Rolling Stones arena concert screaming you can't hear the music :)

[Princess Pilfer]

Joystick curves and sensativity are things you set on a per game basis in the relevant joystick software. Having it in game would just get in the way and piss of people who already had their joystick set up by introducing another layer of stuff to get your stick to work.

Also the t16000m flight stick is well known for z axis failure and for using an imprecise/cheap potentiometer. Consider switching it to the paddles on the throttle.

[Weaver]

Originally posted by Hootman:

Originally posted by Weaver:

Thrustmaster T16000M FCS Flight Pack. Yaw is handled with the rudder pedals along their Z axis, since the toe brakes each take up one axis and none were to spare. I bought the pack specifically because I can't stand twist yaw on the stick. I'm already controlling two axes while firing, selecting weapons, reallocating power, etc, etc, and I don't need Yaw added to that too.

Define "Just fine" for me, please. Because I'm totally fine with posting a video where I show the relative sensitivity of Pitch/Roll against Yaw. I'd just have to set up the tripod so I can get the screen, the pedals, and the stick all in one shot, to prove no cuts or edits were made. Obviously the pedals would have to be relocated from the floor to the desk to do that.

There seems to be a disconnect between what I'm saying and what folks are choosing to hear. If Yaw were "just fine," then it would have the same or similar sensitivity to Pitch and Roll. It is wildly oversensitive compared to the other two axes; such to the point where literally no person could ever believe, if they witnessed what was happening, that they were within margin of error and not some kind of glitch.

Maybe it is a flaw within the TARGET GUI software. If no one else is experiencing this problem, then that would make sense to me. But then...how would one go about killing it with fire? Because I love this game, but this problem has destroyed the concept of even thinking of using Yaw in combat. I just don't do it. I Roll and Pitch to chase now. That actually works.

EDIT: Just tried again with maximum curve on Yaw. Here were my results:

Nothing...nothing...nothing...nothing...100,000r/s spin instantly.

Same amount as Pitch and Roll (which, again, are working perfectly): "You literally grazed it with your finger, 100,000r/s spin instantly."

There is something wrong with the system. I can try using the Zoom setting to cripple the maximum input level, but that's a Hail Mary at best. I don't think I should have to do that, because it's hamstringing less-maneuverable ships by hardcapping their maximum input, and therefore their maximum rate of acceleration when rotating along the Yaw axis. It is a choice that would heavily favor more maneuverable ships and leave the heavies hanging out to dry.

Again, I say: We need configurable sensitivity levels for all three axes. I came in here asking for Yaw, but it makes sense to run it on all of them. I'm willing to entertain the possibility that it's equipment problems on my end, but that doesn't negate the issue for me. Sensitivity settings would.

EDIT II: Zoom to about 1/8 original maximum input seems to make low-level inputs at least somewhat controllable, but it removes the possibility of quickly accelerating along the Yaw axis. It's an imperfect solution, especially if I have to do a hard 180, but it is at least POSSIBLE to control.

Still calling for sensitivity settings, because at least that would allow me the full range of acceleration.

I don't think anyone is interested in seeing a video of your issue. Sounds like you have a problem that nobody else has, or at least one that the vast majority of people don't care about.

Hope you get it sorted. because basically you're the one guy in the middle of a crowd at a Rolling Stones arena concert screaming you can't hear the music :)

That's very helpful, thanks.

I have chosen to go with the temporary workaround of crippling my Yaw input to literally 1/8 of maximum. It is at least somewhat controllable now, with a reasonable curve in place. It won't fix the problem, but at least I can function somewhat in the third axis.

As expected, this has given me some limited functionality in FA Off, but has rendered Yaw in FA On wholly unusable in return. Being restricted to 1/8 maximum input just to make one mode function cripples the other to 0.125x. Seems I've a choice of which one to enable. Sensitivity settings would fix it.

[Hootman]

My reply was sarcastic and I apologize, I usually do better. But you're a little hostile :)

So check this out, I made a couple of short videos showing pedal turns in both the ship and SRV. They both show the speed of the turn is adjusted depending on how much pedal I put in, all the way up to full pedal.

As noted, the only weird one is the SRV, and the wheels snap right near the end of the full pedal.

But in the ship, it's fine.

Check out these small videos of pedal turns I made

Pedal turns

[Weaver]

Originally posted by Hootman:

My reply was sarcastic and I apologize, I usually do better. But you're a little hostile :)

So check this out, I made a couple of short videos showing pedal turns in both the ship and SRV. They both show the speed of the turn is adjusted depending on how much pedal I put in, all the way up to full pedal.

As noted, the only weird one is the SRV, and the wheels snap right near the end of the full pedal.

But in the ship, it's fine.

Check out these small videos of pedal turns I made

Pedal turns

I am a little hostile right now. You're right about that. I've been grappling with this problem for some time and am unintentionally allowing that frustration to spill over onto others. So, for that, I apologize too.

I have no doubt about your controls. I also have no doubt about mine. Something shifty is happening in one of our systems, and although I suspect it's mine, I cannot pinpoint a cause.

So, for now, it's 1/8 of maximum rotation when FA On, and "a controllable amount" when FA Off. That's the solution I've made peace with. Whether it serves me or not, only the stars will decide.

[Darth_Lopez]

This exists >.> you can set a deadzone for it? And most Peripherals come with additional software settings that will allow you to adjust that (at least in my experience.)

[Weaver]

Originally posted by Darth_Lopez:

This exists >.> you can set a deadzone for it? And most Peripherals come with additional software settings that will allow you to adjust that (at least in my experience.)

Again, the Deadzone is not sensitivity. It is the amount you need to move to achieve minimum input. Minimum input is uncontrollable. It doesn't matter where that minimum input is triggered along the axis; it's still an uncontrollable spin. Actual sensitivity is a scale adjustment to how input is received from minimum to maximum, not the threshold for triggering minimum input.

Again, deadzones and curved inputs have been set. I wish all of my words would be read, and not just people's favorite ones. Take a look at the original post again. It is specified there.

I'll even help you out:

Originally posted by Weaver:

Even at top speed, with deadzones and curved inputs set on my HOTAS...

Suggesting the deadzones that are clearly and obviously already in use...is not helpful.

[Jukelo]

Originally posted by Weaver:

Originally posted by Darth_Lopez:

This exists >.> you can set a deadzone for it? And most Peripherals come with additional software settings that will allow you to adjust that (at least in my experience.)

Again, the Deadzone is not sensitivity. It is the amount you need to move to achieve minimum input. Minimum input is uncontrollable. It doesn't matter where that minimum input is triggered along the axis; it's still an uncontrollable spin. Actual sensitivity is a scale adjustment to how input is received from minimum to maximum, not the threshold for triggering minimum input.

Again, deadzones and curved inputs have been set. I wish all of my words would be read, and not just people's favorite ones. Take a look at the original post again. It is specified there.

I'll even help you out:

Originally posted by Weaver:

Even at top speed, with deadzones and curved inputs set on my HOTAS...

Suggesting the deadzones that are clearly and obviously already in use...is not helpful.

You say you have set up the proper curve, but at the same time you are complaining that yaw is too sensitive. This is contradictory, the proper curve would give you the right response for a given amount of deflection.

Obviously you want a smaller response near the center, and your current curve doesn't do that. So flatten the curve further next to the center in whatever software you use for it.

[Weaver]

Originally posted by Jukelo:

Originally posted by Weaver:

Again, the Deadzone is not sensitivity. It is the amount you need to move to achieve minimum input. Minimum input is uncontrollable. It doesn't matter where that minimum input is triggered along the axis; it's still an uncontrollable spin. Actual sensitivity is a scale adjustment to how input is received from minimum to maximum, not the threshold for triggering minimum input.

Again, deadzones and curved inputs have been set. I wish all of my words would be read, and not just people's favorite ones. Take a look at the original post again. It is specified there.

I'll even help you out:


Suggesting the deadzones that are clearly and obviously already in use...is not helpful.

You say you have set up the proper curve, but at the same time you are complaining that yaw is too sensitive. This is contradictory.

Obviously you want a smaller response near the center, and your current curve doesn't do that. So flatten the curve further next to the center in whatever software you use for it.

It is not contradictory. If you read the rest of my post, you will note that the sensitivity issue only exists with Yaw. Pitch and Roll (again, stating this for the...fourth time?) are functioning as intended. Again, curves are ALREADY IMPLEMENTED. I can show you a screenshot if you continue to doubt me.

Also, intercepting this before you even suggest it: Yes, I have tried the full range of that curved input. Minimum curve sets me spinning with literally less than a tenth of a millimeter of movement of the controls. Maximum curve literally results in "Nothing...nothing...nothing...nothing...nothing...ok, we're at the end of the input, MAX IT OUT!"

Again, and read this carefully please, all who view this conversation: CURVES AND DEADZONES ARE IN PLACE AND TESTED. They are functioning as intended for two out of three axes. I really want that to be the last time I have to point that out. It's getting old now. I will block the next person to repeat that to me. No, I'm not joking. Serious suggestions only.

EDIT: Here's the trouble with the Deadzone and Curve theory. Take a look at the S-Curve on a single-axis Yaw control. If it's low, it will start off curving decently, then pick up speed toward the middle, then rapidly accelerate toward the end. Increasing the curve amount doesn't increase it the way you'd think. Instead of a smooth, gradual acceleration over the course of the input, it tends to flatten out through most of the range of input, then spike hard at the end. That's the same thing as no curve and a high deadzone.

On to Deadzones. As mentioned before, a Deadzone does not change the rate at which movement of the controls sends input. It changes the threshold at which input gets sent. See the difference? Without a Deadzone, and without a Curve, your control will move from 0 to 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and so on, through 255 at the maximum limit. Without Deadzone and with Curve, it might go 0, 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, etc, through the same maximum value. With a Deadzone and without Curve, it will go 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 10, 11, 12, and so on.

Changing the Deadzone will not, and cannot, alter actual sensitivity. Its job is setting a range of movement which will not produce input until the threshold is reached. Has exactly nothing to do with input scaling.

Changing the Curve won't alter the rate of input scaling in a way which is controllable. It starts off far too aggressive when using a low curve, does nothing when using a high curve, and does not scale properly when using any point between. Again, I have tested this. I can say it four more times right in this post if I'm just going to end up having to repeat it later. Would save some time.

The issue is not tension on the pedals. The issue is not manual dexterity. The issue is not ship class or Engineering. The issue is that minimum input should start at 1 and maximum input should end at 255, when minimum input -REGARDLESS OF WHERE THAT ENDS UP BEING DUE TO DEADZONES- starts at 200+. It's like driving 90+mph on an icy road: The only thing you're gonna do is fishtail.

I understand this issue may be isolated to my setup. Not disputing that. It may simply be that Thrustmaster's TARGET GUI is actually at fault, not the hardware nor the game. But it doesn't matter. What I want to know is why there were Deadzone settings for this game and no Sensitivity settings to go with them. Even Star Wars Battlefront (PS2) had them. If they'd included that feature, I could have adjusted my Yaw sensitivity to compensate for any failings in the HOTAS control software.

I want to be very clear that I'm not necessarily blaming the game for this issue. But it's half about that and half about missing a setting that could have corrected for it. If they had done...you wouldn't be having this pleasant conversation with me now.

[Planewalker]

If you're rolling when yawing you need to turn off yaw into roll.

There is no way you can yaw faster in the game than the T7 as it's a fixed value.
(that is unless there is some techmagery going on which allows you to override the code)

[Weaver]

Originally posted by Planewalker:

If you're rolling when yawing you need to turn off yaw into roll.

There is no way you can yaw faster in the game than the T7 as it's a fixed value.
(that is unless there is some techmagery going on which allows you to override the code)

Again, not the issue. I have never had yaw-into-roll enabled. At no point did I ever specify that that was my problem. At no point did I express that I wanted to Yaw faster than a T7.

Just...just nevermind, guys. Lock the thread. I won't get any answers here.

FDev, please add flight control sensitivity settings. That's all I came here to say.