Rest in Peace Bounty Hunter Profession.

[Joseph Rentola]

This update have brought many new features for the base game and Horizons expansion. From new missions to materials and crafting. But it has brough a new combat experience very similar to PVP. The unintended consequense is that now PVE combat has more risk takin with little reward. There are may users posting how fast they have been killed by NPCs. How much credits have been lost to rebuying, and overall how the combat experience is not fun anymore.
I used to have a relaxing experience bounty hunting for short periods of time (45 minutes to an hour) getting up to 2 million credits per session and I felt rewarded for my efforts. Now I try my luck with this new AI i've heard about and after an intense dogfight with small ships in a Low RES even with security assistance after 45 minutes i return to base with low hull and only about 300k in vouchers. I didn't feel rewarded now and i feel that bouty hunting has suffered with the new update. It is now a Hi risk/Low reward experience much like PVP in open play.
I tried other professions in the past but combat was the most satisfaction i had. Now it feels like a survival horror when you have to flee when you encounter even an Eagle because it can destroy your Pyton or Clipper even before you finish the Kill Warrant scan.

[OoOoOoooOOoOoorgle]

tthiele65 の投稿を引用：

I've got a Python fully equipped with everthing you can own...the result is that with or without Flyingassist you have no chance todo anything with these ship type. when nothing helps, the AI Fighters simply crash into your ship ( Today the last fight ( 3 fighters at the same time )).

so i go back to a Assault ship. Top equipped... getting ripped by another 3 small fighters with super railguns, lasers, shields , and finaly they simply crash into your ship.

then i tried to fight with an simply vulture ( 2 * 2F Pulslasers ) and what happens i've killed everthing what comes away ( Anaconde ( Dangerous ) / Python ( Dangerous )

so now tell me what is the Wonder?

3 fighters at once is generally a more dangerous encounter than the big ships now. It should be that way, and I'm glad it is, it makes escort fighters actually worthy of your attention finally. I don't know why they'd be crashing if it's really that common for you but it may be due to your own movements as they try to maintain near distance.

Python especially is exactly the type of ship that doesn't want to pick fights with several smaller ships. The primary weakness of all heavily armored, slow craft has always been a swarm of faster ones.

Same with your FAS fight, though it should have the maneuverability to deal with a few swarmers. Since refitting mine a bit to improve missile defense especially I've done fine with most small fighter wings.

Finally, the Vulture has long been one of the best ships to hunt condas and Pythons in because it has a small profile and is very agile, so there's no surprise at success there.

[ZombieHunter]

OoOoOoooOOoOoorgle の投稿を引用：

tthiele65 の投稿を引用：

I've got a Python fully equipped with everthing you can own...the result is that with or without Flyingassist you have no chance todo anything with these ship type. when nothing helps, the AI Fighters simply crash into your ship ( Today the last fight ( 3 fighters at the same time )).

so i go back to a Assault ship. Top equipped... getting ripped by another 3 small fighters with super railguns, lasers, shields , and finaly they simply crash into your ship.

then i tried to fight with an simply vulture ( 2 * 2F Pulslasers ) and what happens i've killed everthing what comes away ( Anaconde ( Dangerous ) / Python ( Dangerous )

so now tell me what is the Wonder?

3 fighters at once is generally a more dangerous encounter than the big ships now. It should be that way, and I'm glad it is, it makes escort fighters actually worthy of your attention finally.

Python especially is exactly the type of ship that doesn't want to pick fights with several smaller ships. The primary weakness of all heavily armored, slow craft has always been a swarm of faster ones.

Same with your FAS fight, though it should have the maneuverability to deal with a few swarmers. Since refitting mine a bit to improve missile defense especially I've done fine with most small fighter wings.

Finally, the Vulture has long been one of the best ships to hunt condas and Pythons in because it has a small profile and is very agile, so there's no surprise at success there.

The Vulture will eat a Python but a Conda with the new AI is pretty challenging. The hardest ship to beat now IMO are those little Federal Assault Ships. By the time I flip around even with FAO the thing is pointing right at me letting me have it. I win out in the end but I'm licking my wounds all the way back to base.

Can't say how much I love it. This is combat redefined and I hope they leave it just as it is.

I've had the AI open up on me b/c I was aligned with Zach in a haz res in Zach territory. Nothing like some pucker factor when you are taking on a wing of 2 and suddenly a few Kumo Crew want to jump in the fray b/c they don't like your faction alignment. Needless to say bugging out was the only option.

[Dark Thoughts]

tthiele65 の投稿を引用：

jasonbarron の投稿を引用：

The bottom line is that if you're flying an A specced Clipper or Python with top line combat loadout and get owned by an Eagle, then you need to go back to flightschool.

The challenges of the new extraction sites mean a lot of us have to go back to basics and get away from the "I've got a big fancy ship from farming zombies and shooting fish in a barrel" mentallity and actually learn how to properly use the equipment.

Fighting the new AI is tough, but is very doable, even without engineered modules.

so now tell me what is the Wonder?

I don't know what that's supposed to mean exactly but if you want what that's telling us I would say that you can't handle certain ship types. I mean c'mon, the Vulture is well known to be the strongest and easiest BH ship ever. Yet we have people in bigger ships (I'm flying a FAS myself too, and not even using FA off either) without issues with the AI.

Turd Ferguson の投稿を引用：

mrraybaker の投稿を引用：

yeah i often play "silent" for similar reason lol, sometimes text chat is enough though, but if you are tv playing that may not be an option.

ON the Res I think of it like this.... the more resources the more scum pirates are there trying to kill folk :)

Oh and if you haven't, strongly reccomend at least having a flick through the manual... it covers a lot of stuff.

there's a manual??? I just bought the game on Steam as a download. I've been relying on youtube videos and forum posts and a lot of the info dates back to 2014 so it only kinda-sorta applies. Anyway this is turning into a thread hikack so I'm going to stop airing out my own noob problems in this thread and let it continnue on it's original path of people complaining that the new AI makes it harder to have a fun, relaxing bounty hunter experience.

I suggest to have a good look to the top right of the launcher ...

[ZombieHunter]

Also the new AI flies the Eagle so well that I'm kicking myself for not flying it like that myself. Those things are all over the sky when you open up on them. If it wasn't for their paper thin shields and hull one Eagle would present a serious challenge to a Vulture.

Makes me wanna hop in my Eagle and have at it. Love that little ship.

[OoOoOoooOOoOoorgle]

Viper74 の投稿を引用：

The Vulture will eat a Python but a Conda with the new AI is pretty challenging. The hardest ship to beat now IMO are those little Federal Assault Ships. By the time I flip around even with FAO the thing is pointing right at me letting me have it. I win out in the end but I'm licking my wounds all the way back to base.

Can't say how much I love it. This is combat redefined and I hope they leave it just as it is.

Yeah I've noticed the Anacondas are less sluggish too, I've had to resort to oblong banking turns to stay away from their turrets. One really laid into me and I had to kill it with a busted cockpit, so fun.

Super jealous that you're seeing some FAS lol. I've been trying to find one in my own FAS so we can have a cage match but so far I've seen just about every other ship and no FAS ><

[jasonbarron]

Viper74 の投稿を引用：

Also the new AI flies the Eagle so well that I'm kicking myself for not flying it like that myself. Those things are all over the sky when you open up on them. If it wasn't for their paper thin shields and hull one Eagle would present a serious challenge to a Vulture.

Makes me wanna hop in my Eagle and have at it. Love that little ship.

I've been seriously considering swapping out from my FdL to an ICourier.

[Turd Ferguson]

mrraybaker の投稿を引用：

Launcher, top right, your welcome ;)

ah, yeah, well....through Steam Link - that launcher is almost completely useless, barely responsive and reading web page-sized font on a TV from 10-15 feet away...not a great user experience ;)

[OoOoOoooOOoOoorgle]

jasonbarron の投稿を引用：

Viper74 の投稿を引用：

Also the new AI flies the Eagle so well that I'm kicking myself for not flying it like that myself. Those things are all over the sky when you open up on them. If it wasn't for their paper thin shields and hull one Eagle would present a serious challenge to a Vulture.

Makes me wanna hop in my Eagle and have at it. Love that little ship.

I've been seriously considering swapping out from my FdL to an ICourier.

I flew my courier around for a while yesterday and loved every second of it. Some of the best dogfights I've had in my entire Elite career, you should definitely give it a spin.

[jasonbarron]

OoOoOoooOOoOoorgle の投稿を引用：

jasonbarron の投稿を引用：

I've been seriously considering swapping out from my FdL to an ICourier.

I flew my courier around for a while yesterday and loved every second of it. Some of the best dogfights I've had in my entire Elite career, you should definitely give it a spin.

It's just sooo hard to give up the dakka dakka of that lovely C4 Multi...

I don't know how much speed is possible to squeeze out of the FdL with engineered upgrades, but one of my primary goals right now is to get as much weight off the thing as I can and to buff the thrusters to their maximum potential. It might take a while, but I bet it'll be like flying a much smaller ship whils retaining its punch. Good times ahead!

[OoOoOoooOOoOoorgle]

jasonbarron の投稿を引用：

OoOoOoooOOoOoorgle の投稿を引用：

I flew my courier around for a while yesterday and loved every second of it. Some of the best dogfights I've had in my entire Elite career, you should definitely give it a spin.

It's just sooo hard to give up the dakka dakka of that lovely C4 Multi...

Haha indeed, losing that and losing another C2 on top of it is dps-shock.

[ZombieHunter]

OoOoOoooOOoOoorgle の投稿を引用：

jasonbarron の投稿を引用：

I've been seriously considering swapping out from my FdL to an ICourier.

I flew my courier around for a while yesterday and loved every second of it. Some of the best dogfights I've had in my entire Elite career, you should definitely give it a spin.

I have a Courier over in Aisling space and I loved flying it before the update. I can't imagine how it would be now. Might give it a spin.

I had an FAS but sold it b/c I was terrible at it. I might give it another go now though. The AI flies it so well it makes me jealous.

[Turd Ferguson]

mrraybaker の投稿を引用：

I spent hours in a res in a FAS last night... no problems

I fought wing in a barely kitted Asp X this morning... some problems but none I wouldn't reasonably expect given my loadout even pre 2.1

Not been rammed once. I do the ramming (though noticed the FAS is no longer as good at this, or mabye pythons jsut more reinforced) Taken on wings no issues.

I got rammed twice yesterday. In both cases they were bigger ships and when I got their shields down and started blasting away at the power plant they just opened up on me, and when my shields came down they just boosted and rammed me. For some reason (and I haven't figured out what it is yet) sometimes in a fight a ship will open up on my and suddenly I can't do anything. Maybe they're targeting my engines or power plant and their guns are so powerful that they can take out my shields and the component at the same time...I don't know.

Oh, one more thing, if you attack a ship that's in a wing. I'm guessing the other members of that wing will attack you too?

[ZombieHunter]

Turd Ferguson の投稿を引用：

mrraybaker の投稿を引用：

I spent hours in a res in a FAS last night... no problems

I fought wing in a barely kitted Asp X this morning... some problems but none I wouldn't reasonably expect given my loadout even pre 2.1

Not been rammed once. I do the ramming (though noticed the FAS is no longer as good at this, or mabye pythons jsut more reinforced) Taken on wings no issues.

I got rammed twice yesterday. In both cases they were bigger ships and when I got their shields down and started blasting away at the power plant they just opened up on me, and when my shields came down they just boosted and rammed me. For some reason (and I haven't figured out what it is yet) sometimes in a fight a ship will open up on my and suddenly I can't do anything. Maybe they're targeting my engines or power plant and their guns are so powerful that they can take out my shields and the component at the same time...I don't know.

Oh, one more thing, if you attack a ship that's in a wing. I'm guessing the other members of that wing will attack you too?

Without mercy. Yes they will open up on you quickly. Do not take on a wing solo. I mean you can but don't be surprised if you die rather suddenly.

Taking on a wing can be done but you have to balance out your attack. If you focus on one ship make sure you take it down fast. Don't get fixated on taking him down if you can't get it done within a few seconds. Target his buddies thus making the other members of the wing reposition to attack. Keep doing this until you start destroying them and eventually the pendulum swings in your favor. If you fixate on one target too long they will crush you and your systems will be malfunctioning and you will not be able to win the fight.

But the best strategy when outmatched is to run. No loss of honor in running when you know you are outmatched. No honor in dying in said situation either. In the end its your choice but I would disengage. Fly towards one member of the wing and put all pips into engines. Boost like mad in the head on pass. When he passes keep boosting. By the time he turns around you will be almost 4 or 5 km away. Then stow your weapons and FSD out of there.

[JoeShmo]

Patch 1.3 Lands

Player 1: "Wow...A.I. is a lot harder now..what the heck. Did they overdue it?"
Player 2: "Now you can't solo an Anaconda with your sidewinder"
Player 1: "Wait what?"

Patch 1.4 Lands

Player 1: "Wow...A.I. buffed again? I'm losing money left and right; it's not even fun anymore."
Player 2: "Now you can't solo an Anaconda with your sidewinder."
Player 1: "Uh...when did I say... I'm getting DeJaVu."

Patch 1.6 Lands

Player 1: "Ok, no, seriously; Were NPCs buffed again? Are we fighting Engineer ships while not having Horizons?"
Player 2: "Finally its dangerous. Now you can't solo an Anaconda with..."
Player 1: "Will you be quiet already! Jeese, I just give up. Not doing anything involving ship combat anymore."

Predicting Patch 1.7+

Player 2: "About time...now npcs won't just sit there letting you get easy kills"

[Turd Ferguson]

Viper74 の投稿を引用：

But the best strategy when outmatched is to run. No loss of honor in running when you know you are outmatched. No honor in dying in said situation either. In the end its your choice but I would disengage. Fly towards one member of the wing and put all pips into engines. Boost like mad in the head on pass. When he passes keep boosting. By the time he turns around you will be almost 4 or 5 km away. Then stow your weapons and FSD out of there.

Yeah, that's what I've been trying, but it seems like I go from perfectly fine to shields down and can't do anything but sit there in 1 hit. Probably this is due to me being less than a week into this game and suddenly place where I could go and score some decent kills started spawning a variety of NPC's some of which outclass me so much that I don't even have time to realize it, nor to I have the experience to stay away...like I said, it was fine a few days ago.

Another problem is that the first time I did this, which was admittedly only a few days ago I was in my free Sidewinder and if I started taking really heavy losses I could always just reset my way out of debt and start over. Now I have a Viper with a $60k replacement cost and I'm a lot more hesitant to experiment.