Space Legs?

[SGT~PridEvans~]

I mean...

[FREEZED]

best thing in this game

[Dolphin Bottlenose]

Space ships for me, thanks.

[<Caeris↝]

....not their best idea what they had.

[Rhys]

makes for good screenshots

[Agony_Aunt]

People for years screamed out for space legs. We got space legs.

Now people scream they didn't mean those space legs, they wanted other space legs. Especially ship interior space legs. I suspect that will come as part of a separate DLC.

Then people will scream that isn't what they wanted, or that its boring, and the cycle continues.

[WreckWren]

"it's the fault of other fans that frontier implemented this objectively the wrong way" - space dads (screaming for good measure)
No matter which way you slice it, it was less work to implement the space legs people asked for (walking around ships) than make even the crappiest of FPS experiences, which nobody asked for. Odyssey could not have been done worse.

[Agony_Aunt]

Originally posted by WreckWren:

objectively the wrong way

I don't think you understand what the word objectively means.

[Alrik]

Originally posted by Agony_Aunt:

People for years screamed out for space legs. We got space legs.

Now people scream they didn't mean those space legs, they wanted other space legs. Especially ship interior space legs. I suspect that will come as part of a separate DLC.

To late, to little sums Odysseys Space Leg pretty up.

And I doubt that Frontier would ever add ship interiors to the game.
It would need a rework of most of the ships, and they have had time since 2015 to do what.
The even fixed stuff like the out of scale stairs on the Imperial Cutter.

[ShamWow]

Worth it for me. Being able to get out of the ship and walk around is huge, atleast for me.

[lefty1117]

I like it, I just think as usual FD gives you the mvp, the minimum, and just adds it in cookie cutter fashion. For example there are no ground based Powerplay zones - would have been perfect. The terminals in the settlements and lounges don't let you do anything in terms of equipping your ship or taking ship missions and vice versa. Even the alleged ship service, Ad Astra, doesn't let you do anything other than buy or equip a ship. No mission chains that combine ship objectives with ground objectives. Odyssey was pretty much made as a standalone game only loosely connected to the ship game, and that's a shame. There are some things to like about it, but when you realize what could have been it can cause a loss of enthusiasm. That's kind of the story of this game - a lot of wasted potential, could-have-beens. They are not as ambitious as they could be, in my opinion.

[WRONGTURN]

All space legs did was turn an excellent space VR game. into a call of duty fps which has made many long time players leave the game. What the hell were they thinking ? they weren't.

[Jeebs]

Originally posted by WRONGTURN:

All space legs did was turn an excellent space VR game. into a call of duty fps which has made many long time players leave the game. What the hell were they thinking ? they weren't.

It really didn't turn it into a CoD game. Yes, they added ground combat but I've done very little of that and absolutely enjoy being able to leave my ship and walk around on planetary surfaces. I'm also extremely thankful that I don't have to walk through my entire ship to do it. Now if they could remove the stupid hangar and have me port straight to station interior instead of having to run back and forth, that would be even better.

What were they thinking? I think they quite correctly realized that ship interiors offer no real game play, and that Odyssey was the next logical step in Elite's development. Even if they do want to add ship interiors at some point, this was one of the steps in doing so. People are already complaining that there's not enough to do on foot. There's even less to do with ship interiors. Adding them in would basically mean having to run through your ship to board and disembark and very little else. I'd rather skip all of that.

They overhauled the plant tech and, sure there were so growing pains and it was less than ideal, but let's not forget that they were doing this during the pandemic lock-down and so were working under less than ideal circumstances. They didn't get to test as thoroughly as they used to and yes, that shows, and that's what caused most of the uproar about performance. They've been working almost exclusively on improving performance for the last year.

Also, if we ever want to see full atmosphere planets and possibly even Earth-likes, then Odyssey was the next step in the process. Those would be far more intensive on system requirements than the planets that came with Odyssey so better to test with something simpler.

As far as I'm concerned, the planetary surfaces look far more realistic now and I love the way that starlight interacts with the atmospheres. Odyssey has given me countless screenshots that are far more beautiful than anything I ever managed to snap in Horizons.

So, while I respect that many people aren't happy with Odyssey... that is your problem. Trying to say that it is objectively worse is false. Your opinion is subjective. Lots of people are happy with the changes, therefore it is not objectively worse.

[Agony_Aunt]

Originally posted by WRONGTURN:

All space legs did was turn an excellent space VR game. into a call of duty fps which has made many long time players leave the game. What the hell were they thinking ? they weren't.

The space VR game is still there.

If all you see in Odyssey is combat zones then you haven't looked at what Odyssey offers.

[Hawk Eye]

Well if we are speaking purely objectively. Given the bad ratings and reviews. The loss of revenue and enthusiasm. Even if you're enjoying Odyssey; it's bad for everyone including the fans.
On the bright side. Odyssey, like the rest of Elite has a lot of potential in my opinion. The base game really got fleshed out with stuff to do over time. Hopefully they will do the same with Odyssey and keep adding to the experience.

Just like the base game some of the things developed for Odyssey, some of the technology/methods employed, are very impressive. It's really cool and impressive how Odyssey outposts have fairly unique and procedural yet still fairly coherent layouts. The procedural generation of Odyssey settlements is really neat and done pretty well. It's really cool to see how these settlements are generated to blend into the terrain and with some randomness to their layouts. Like the base game Odyssey boasts some impressive technical achievements and oozes potential.

As far as my own subjective look at Odyssey: Right now the experience is pretty lean. Which is somewhat understandable as you're talking about blending a whole new game into another. But even with respect to the work required to combine "space legs" to the base game they still feel like two separate modules for the most part. Fairly removed from one another at least intuitively. You can play On-Foot without ever needing to fly a ship. You can fly a ship without ever having to go On-Foot. The lack of blending between the new experience into the old is my biggest problem with the game.

If Fdev really wanted to do "Space-Legs".
It probably would have been a safer bet to just give people what they asked for: Walking around inside ships, stations, and planet surfaces and charged 20$ for it. Or as a season pass for 40$ with these features and added most of the content we know now, the FPS combat, later. They probably would have made more money this way and gotten less bad press. This is of course my humble opinion however given the ratings and reviews I could be right.

Maybe they had the good instinct that the space-legs people asked for would only satisfy a small population of consumers. And not sell very well. Which is likely. But if that's the case just don't do space legs then. OR keep it minimal. You can walk around in a few places. Add it in along with a different expansion as a neat little feature to satisfy some while not disapointing others.

Were people clamoring for space legs? If so maybe they just got unlucky? Seems like if you want to give people what they ask for, give them what they ask for. Take their money and call it a day. If the circumstance of Odyssey is: people were begging for space legs and Fdev said "You're idea is boring" we're going to make a FPS instead. Then they really screwed the pootch. If people tell you what they will spend money on, put you're infinite wisdom aside, and take their money. Have people vote on the forums about what they'd like to see added and go from their.

And finally. All hub bub about space-legs aside. Without direction from the fan base, it would probably have been an even safer bet/ wiser move to just expand the base game with more content. You know more space ships, guns, things to do. More and better space stuff. Stick to what's been selling good. But then again making a generic FPS game is probably easier.

Maybe they just felt pressured to compete with SC? Maybe capture some of SC's market share? Who knows you'd have to ask them. They were probably enthusiastic about what they were making. Too bad it missed the mark. Mistaken market research perhaps.

And keep in mind Hind-Sight is 20-20. So this shouldn't be considered as trashing Fdev. Just observations. Stuff happens.
Just my two cents.

[Dolphin Bottlenose]

Originally posted by Hawk Eye:

You can play On-Foot without ever needing to fly a ship. You can fly a ship without ever having to go On-Foot.

It sounds good for those who find one of those activities not to be that much of fun.

It probably would have been a safer bet to just give people what they asked for: Walking around inside ships, stations, and planet surfaces and charged 20$ for it. Or as a season pass for 40$ with these features and added most of the content we know now, the FPS combat, later. They probably would have made more money this way and gotten less bad press.

I can only speak from my own point of view, but I think that it would have brought less money that way. I didn't like the idea of "Space Legs", yet I bought Odyssey because it added a lot of different gameplay options. Even if I don't find them as exciting as flying spaceships, I still do them occasionally.

If they were only giving me "Space Legs" in a way of walking around, it would have been a hard "no buy" from my side. Because that kind of the "gameplay" isn't worth even $10 - it doesn't have a high replayability value.

Maybe they had the good instinct that the space-legs people asked for would only satisfy a small population of consumers. And not sell very well. Which is likely.

That's my thoughts, too.

But if that's the case just don't do space legs then.

Well, I wish they used their development resources on something else, yes. But at least what they did has a gameplay value.

OR keep it minimal. You can walk around in a few places. Add it in along with a different expansion as a neat little feature to satisfy some while not disapointing others.

That's exactly what they did. You can walk around in a few places (space stations, ground installations). And they have added it with a new expansion (Odyssey).

If people tell you what they will spend money on, put you're infinite wisdom aside, and take their money.

What if the thing that people want to add will kill the game in the long run? Should FDevs take their money and kill the game in the process?

The infinite wisdom is to look ahead, not to do a fast cash grab and then to abandon the project.

You know more space ships, guns, things to do. More and better space stuff. Stick to what's been selling good. But then again making a generic FPS game is probably easier.

No, it's much harder to develop something completely new, than to add variations of what already has been developed.