Huge Hardpoints- Why?...

[Gamatech]

Hi all o7

I've had a Fer-De-Lance for a while now, but always wondered why the hardpoint mount on my ship's belly is so grossly oversized for my guns and possesses seemingly enough tourque to pull a station from orbit. Thanks to a recent newb "eureka" moment, I discovered I can mount a huge hardpoint on the damned thing. Go figure.

But... why the heck would I ever want to do that?... I've been looking at a number of huge hardpoints I could mount on my ship, but they all seem so lackluster. I'm obviously just going by the stats on paper (because bugger paying 14 mill credits just for a test run), but none of them are even close to as good as my smaller class 2 or 3 hardpoints.

They have lower dps (assuming you land the hits in the first place), higher weights, they cost an absolute BOMB, and their fire rates are generally abysmal! The only advantages I see are the burst damage and their drool-inducing good looks.

I'm obviously missing something here, so could someone please enlighten me? The way I see it, anything they can do my smaller guns can do better!

[Alex]

What makes the FDL applealing is having that Class 4 hardpoint, put a multicannon on it and watch how quick it shreds internal modules and hull on an anaconda in seconds, as for smaller ships they just turn to space dust really fast.

[Gamatech]

Цитата допису Alex:

What makes the FDL applealing is having that Class 4 hardpoint, put a multicannon on it and watch how quick it shreds internal modules and hull on an anaconda in seconds, as for smaller ships they just turn to space dust really fast.

I'm still trying to get other loadouts to work, but still nothing competes with my 3x rail guns and 2x multicannons.

As you said yourself the whole appeal is having that huge hardpoint, and I just can't find a place for it. My next attempt is going to be your suggestion. I will swap out a rail gun for a huge multicannon and see how that goes. I'm determined not to let this class 4 slot go to waste..

[Alex]

Like Boot said, if you like your rails you could go and engineer them to get a bigger ammo pool, but even then it's not enough for prolonged pve combat, there's also the disadvantage of heat generation the rails causes when you fire them in rapid succession, in some circumstances rails are great for taking down shields (mostly pvp) but even then it's not as quick or efficient as other hardpoints like an overcharged incendiary multicannon or an efficient laser beam with thermal vent.

So these are my suggestions:

-x4 medium laser, x1 huge multicannon
-x1 huge multicannon or beam laser, x4 medium multicannons.

You can also experiment with your ship, just remember that you need to tap into the engineers to make the FDL truly shine.

(EDIT: corrected some typos)

[NikkiLiz]

Цитата допису Alex:

Like Boot said, if you like your rails you could go and engineer them to get a bigger ammo pool, but even then it's not enough for prolonged pve combat, there's also the disadvantage of heat generation the rails causes when you fire them in rapid succession, in some circumstances rails are great for taking down shields (mostly pvp) but even then it's not as quick or efficient as other hardpoints like an overcharged incendiary multicannon or an efficient laser beam with thermal vent.

So these are my suggestions:

-x4 medium laser, x1 huge multicannon
-x1 huge multicannon or beam laser, x4 medium multicannons.

You can also experiment with your ship, just remember that you need to tap into the engineers to make the FDL truly shine.

(EDIT: corrected some typos)

The only problem with 4 Medium MCs is the damage falloff against large ships, though with four of them it should be minimal.

I would try either 4 Medium Burst (Or Pulse, if PP doesn't permit Burst) Lasers + 1 Huge Cannon or MC, or 1 Huge Beam + whatever kinetic loadout.

If mostly targetting smaller ships, maybe even try all Burst lasers (or Pulse if PP doesn't fit Burst).

But either way, as Alex says, you're GOING to have to engineer to get the most out of any ship, especially the Power Plant, Rail Guns, and Beam Lasers, as those give more power, and suck up the most power, respectively.

EDIT: Completely forgot about Particle Accelerators, which are like a railgun mixed with a cannon and go up to Huge size.

[Eviscerador]

4 Long range burst lasers + 1 Efficient PA in the huge slot. All fixed.

With this you can just kill everything. The lasers are more than enough for the small ships and the big PA just wrecks larger targets. You can two shot an Anaconda powerplant.

If you can't get efficient PA, then you can put there a cannon or a multicannon. Remember to always put the antiarmour weapons in the biggest hardpoints to avoid the size penalty.

In case you can keep the range, then switch the long range bursts for efficient burst.

[One Eye Jack]

Цитата допису POEX Gamatech:

Цитата допису TheBoot >:o:

Yes, unless they are unusually tanky, targetting smaller ships modules isn't very effective since they're a very tiny target moving around a lot and gimballs have a bit of 'jitter' in their aim. That is mostly for larger, slower ships.

On the whole, don't use a railgun to take down shields, I'd say. It works, but they really shine at hull and module destruction (especially engineered with Super Pen). I wouldn't waste your one Huge on a laser, but that's just me. 4 smaller burst would do just fine at taking down shields, leaving you with a Huge weapon of your choice to shred armor with. Even on my Cutter, I only use a Huge Beam weapon because I have the MCs to apply the debuff and lower the armor's resistance to thermal damage.

If power is a concern, I'm also a fan of seeker missiles, they're good for finishing off prey once you've got their shields down (don't use missiles agianst shields), but don't have much ammo. Overall, play around, see what works for you! I've done all-kinetic builds featuring nothing but Multi-cannons and Missiles, or Multi-cannons and Cannons before to rather surprising effectiveness. Hurts your long-range game quite a bit, but if you don't mind having to go reload every 5-6 kills, MCs are pretty good at taking down shields.

I've gone the other way, too, where I didn't want to reload EVER and just went all-thermal. Maybe try dual railguns and three burst lasers. If I remember right, the FDL's main problem is the Power Plant, so I'd also suggest getting that modded with Overcharge as soon as you can to free up some power for more loadout freedom.

Thanks again for the effort put into your responses.

In all my time playing so far, nothing for me has even come CLOSE to matching the effectiveness of 3x railguns and 2x miniguns. I will mess around with that from what you told me about railguns not being great for shields. Nothing I ever try gets me better results than that loadout, but with that new information in mind I'll keep a-tweakin.

OK, are you in a Python with that loadout?

If that is the case I have to tell you the Combat Pyton is absolutly the most awesome combat ship in the game. If is far superior to the FDL.

Others will tell you different........but I have used both ships extensively and the Python is the better combat ship........well just better ship in general.

Also, the placement of the large hardpoint in the FDL is a bit inconvenient. Smack dab on the bottom........I find weapons on the bottom to be the hardest to use.....might just be me.

I didn't read the entire thread so if this has been discussed just ignore me.

[funkynutz]

Цитата допису POEX Gamatech:

...but none of them are even close to as good as my smaller class 2 or 3 hardpoints.

They have lower dps (assuming you land the hits in the first place),

They really don't... They do a lot more damage, and they don't suffer damage penalties against big ships.

I'm obviously missing something here, so could someone please enlighten me? The way I see it, anything they can do my smaller guns can do better!

Dead wrong. Huge Beam has the highest DPS in the game (if memory serves). Huge cannon punches holes through most ships. Huge multi tears things apart. Huge plasma is just plain brutal against everything...

EDIT: Memory didn't serve. Huge frag cannon has highest DPS in the game. You just have to be really close to get the full effectiveness of it.

[Gamatech]

Цитата допису Funkynutz:

Цитата допису POEX Gamatech:

...but none of them are even close to as good as my smaller class 2 or 3 hardpoints.

They have lower dps (assuming you land the hits in the first place),

They really don't... They do a lot more damage, and they don't suffer damage penalties against big ships.

I'm obviously missing something here, so could someone please enlighten me? The way I see it, anything they can do my smaller guns can do better!

Dead wrong. Huge Beam has the highest DPS in the game (if memory serves). Huge cannon punches holes through most ships. Huge multi tears things apart. Huge plasma is just plain brutal against everything...

EDIT: Memory didn't serve. Huge frag cannon has highest DPS in the game. You just have to be really close to get the full effectiveness of it.

Just one of my tier 2 rail guns out dps' all huge hardpoint except for the frag cannon, and as you said yourself you'd need to be right on top of your target to make any real use out of those things.

I will admit however that I have not considered the advantage of no damage penalty against large ships, I wasn't even aware that there was one applied to smaller hardpoints.

[TiberiuS]

Цитата допису POEX Gamatech:

Just one of my tier 2 rail guns out dps' all huge hardpoint except for the frag cannon, and as you said yourself you'd need to be right on top of your target to make any real use out of those things.

I will admit however that I have not considered the advantage of no damage penalty against large ships, I wasn't even aware that there was one applied to smaller hardpoints.

Unless the numbers changed a Med. Railgun has 50 DPS (41 DMG per shot) and a pierce value of 48.
A huge gimballed multicannon has only 28 DPS but a pierce value of 68.

Also if you are measuring a railgun in DPS you are either an ace pilot or an idiot (no offense indended)
There is no way to play out that DPS unless you manage to keep your nose on target all the time. So I'd go with the per shot value of 41 here.

Big ships have hull hardness of 60 to 70. That means the huge MC has no damage penalty (or only very slightly) while the Railgun suffers a penalty of 20 ... 32%. That means we're down to 32.8 ... 28 damage here.

Also the MC will not overheat your ship or drain your capacitor dry.

I'd prfer the MC by far over the railgun here. Also the sound is much cooler.

[Gamatech]

Цитата допису TiberiuS:

Цитата допису POEX Gamatech:

Just one of my tier 2 rail guns out dps' all huge hardpoint except for the frag cannon, and as you said yourself you'd need to be right on top of your target to make any real use out of those things.

I will admit however that I have not considered the advantage of no damage penalty against large ships, I wasn't even aware that there was one applied to smaller hardpoints.

Unless the numbers changed a Med. Railgun has 50 DPS (41 DMG per shot) and a pierce value of 48.
A huge gimballed multicannon has only 28 DPS but a pierce value of 68.

Also if you are measuring a railgun in DPS you are either an ace pilot or an idiot (no offense indended)
There is no way to play out that DPS unless you manage to keep your nose on target all the time. So I'd go with the per shot value of 41 here.

Big ships have hull hardness of 60 to 70. That means the huge MC has no damage penalty (or only very slightly) while the Railgun suffers a penalty of 20 ... 32%. That means we're down to 32.8 ... 28 damage here.

Also the MC will not overheat your ship or drain your capacitor dry.

I'd prfer the MC by far over the railgun here. Also the sound is much cooler.

Thanks, this has cleared a lot up for me. Things make a lot more sense now.

I've fitted out my ship with 2 med MCs, 1 huge MC, and 2 med rail guns. I will see how things pan out and comment here :)

[Zero]

Цитата допису POEX Gamatech:

Цитата допису TiberiuS:

Unless the numbers changed a Med. Railgun has 50 DPS (41 DMG per shot) and a pierce value of 48.
A huge gimballed multicannon has only 28 DPS but a pierce value of 68.

Also if you are measuring a railgun in DPS you are either an ace pilot or an idiot (no offense indended)
There is no way to play out that DPS unless you manage to keep your nose on target all the time. So I'd go with the per shot value of 41 here.

Big ships have hull hardness of 60 to 70. That means the huge MC has no damage penalty (or only very slightly) while the Railgun suffers a penalty of 20 ... 32%. That means we're down to 32.8 ... 28 damage here.

Also the MC will not overheat your ship or drain your capacitor dry.

I'd prfer the MC by far over the railgun here. Also the sound is much cooler.

Thanks, this has cleared a lot up for me. Things make a lot more sense now.

I've fitted out my ship with 2 med MCs, 1 huge MC, and 2 med rail guns. I will see how things pan out and comment here :)

the MCs should just rip everything apart while the rails are going to have a larger delay between each shot. hence why there actual damage per second is lower, once a MC spins up it just keeps firing until it needs to be reloaded.

someone mentioned targetting subsystems, Well gotta watch that, some ships will die before you can destroy the subsystems, namely the dropship and that line of ship, the FAS and gunship might be similar. also make sure you can get a clear view of the side the subsystem is on, otherwise your just trying to dig through the ship to it.

[Gamatech]

Цитата допису OP-1 Zero:

someone mentioned targetting subsystems, Well gotta watch that, some ships will die before you can destroy the subsystems, namely the dropship and that line of ship, the FAS and gunship might be similar. also make sure you can get a clear view of the side the subsystem is on, otherwise your just trying to dig through the ship to it.

Yes, I've learned this from experience now. The trouble is learning where the modules are all located. I nailed it in War Thunder, so I'm sure I can learn in Elite.

[Eviscerador]

Nah, don't waste your time with the module aiming. The only reason to ever aim at a module is if you want to destroy the PowerPlant of a big ship, or if you are pirating and then use missiles or cannons to disable drives without killing the ship.

Most of the time you will destroy the ship before you destroy most of the modules.

In case you are still interested in destroying modules, use super pen railguns, cannons or missiles. Those do a lot of module damage.

[funkynutz]

Цитата допису Eviscerador:

Nah, don't waste your time with the module aiming. The only reason to ever aim at a module is if you want to destroy the PowerPlant of a big ship, or if you are pirating and then use missiles or cannons to disable drives without killing the ship.

Most of the time you will destroy the ship before you destroy most of the modules.

In case you are still interested in destroying modules, use super pen railguns, cannons or missiles. Those do a lot of module damage.

Life support in PVP. You'd be amazed at how many pilots can't fight once they've lost their canopy...

[Eviscerador]

Цитата допису Funkynutz:

Цитата допису Eviscerador:

Nah, don't waste your time with the module aiming. The only reason to ever aim at a module is if you want to destroy the PowerPlant of a big ship, or if you are pirating and then use missiles or cannons to disable drives without killing the ship.

Most of the time you will destroy the ship before you destroy most of the modules.

In case you are still interested in destroying modules, use super pen railguns, cannons or missiles. Those do a lot of module damage.

Life support in PVP. You'd be amazed at how many pilots can't fight once they've lost their canopy...

The life support module targets and breaks the cabin? Didn't know that. Nice advice.