Engineers are basically hax

[/3udweiser /3andit]

Yes. you know this to be true.
all of the boogyman things that a trainer can do to screw with balancing, Engineers does better.

yknow.

the boogyman things like
Invulnerability
Super damage
Super jumprange
Super armor
Super thruster speed

all of those are things Engineers actually does BETTER than Elite Not So Dangerous (Known Trainer).


When you hear the occasional person say Engineers killed Elite and namely the PVP aspect, they weren't kidding, and you probably didn't realize to what extent.

If I had my way with the game, I'd solve the cheating issue by deleting engineers, deleting the online solo mode, and giving people an actual singleplayer with a completely different save file from the open mode one that is client sided and only works for that offline mode.

Its not hard to see by going on Unknowncheats, MPGH, and Mrantifun, and taking the way back machine into the forum posts for this game, that the surge of people requesting trainers happened shortly after engineers was released.

It is my full belief that you will see people use trainers as a direct way of contending with people who use over engineered godmode tanks.

Contrary to popular belief:
-There is no such thing as a cheat that lets you edit individual modules.
-There is no such thing as a credit hack. only exploits.
-There is no such thing as a cheat that lets you expand your cargo capacity
-There is no such thing as a cheat that lets you give yourself cargo/materials/data
-There is no such thing as a cheat that makes your weapons do more damage.
Simply because pretty much all of these are serverside, not clientside values.

Most of these are things that Engineers actually does. not trainers. People who deny the distinct advantage over engineered spacecraft have in this game over other players, will lead others to believe that cheating is a greater boogyman than it actually is.

Allot of the news sites that spread this disinformation are actually spreading honeypots to lure potential hackers into going onto discords so their names can be given to Fdev for an immediate banning. so thats good i guess.

[martydaparty4u]

Ya kind of agree, engineers just moved the goal posts for people to spend more money and time for an advantage over people without the dlc, still not sure why the game sells them separate still. The dlc should of just focused on planetary features.

[Bannor]

Originally posted by martydaparty4u:

The dlc should of just focused on planetary features.

Planetary features - such as engineer bases?

[Jambaali ☮]

Thank God you're not the world's authority ! We would all be dead

[Arc]

Engineers are 50+% of the game in terms of abilities, nobody denies that.

However you can simply choose not to participate in pvp should you be so unwilling to farm mats for them.

[Genitor]

engineers kind of became necessary because there where a bunch of moneymaking explooits in the game. The smart way to deal with this issue is to inflate money, which is what happened.
However then FD needed something else you could grind because many players enjoy to grind, at least sometimes.

Thats what engineers are for (and then guardian-stuff).

However you can not just role back engineers.

+ Engineers didnt kill PvP. Engineers did kill PVP for non-horizon-owners (but honestly it was on sale a couple times for just a few bugs so that argument is kind of weak) and for ppl who dont want to enngineer their ♥♥♥♥. I dont see why YOUR UNWILLINGNESS to farm the materials, like everyone else does is a good enough reason to role back everyone progress on engineering.

besides: Engineering has become a lot easier already. At the beginning it had high RNG to engineer and also there are a couple of farm-spots where you can fill up your material-storage damned quickly (so engineering is basically inflated already, anyway (thats why we got guardin-stuff now...)

[AISTHESIS]

Oh my! Huge scandal pay to win! Cost me so much money to even stay in the game! To make it worse there are no PVE servers or solo mode for casual players. What kind of DLC cost money for new activities anyway?

Going out to dinner with 4 friends cost $100. We are talking about a game and DLC for the price of a game. And if you get killed by the cheating DLC owners what do you loose? We pay the insurance and keep gaming. Are you so competitive that this is an issue? Are you mad because you farmed materials like a greedy child to upgrade your ship or did you just upgrade when you had the materials from normal game play? This game is not pay to win and there really is no win, only rank and some never ending power play. You can get into it for under $30 even $15 on sale. I don't disagree with everything you say but most players with a real interest in this game have and want Horizons, not because they want to Win, because they enjoy the content.

Do you really think players would be happy if we removed engineering? What would that fix for you? What is the real issue that sparked your discussion? Are you contemplating a massive grind to upgrade quick? Did you get destroyed and feel you need to grind more engineering? And how did you find info on a cheat trainer? Were you looking for one? I have about 3,000hrs and never heard of a trainer for this game. Did your trainer stop working and now you feel the need to grind?

I suspect this was sparked by a personal issue with "loosing".

[/3udweiser /3andit]

Pre engineers elite did have money making exploits. Though when building a spacecraft loadout you had to only contend with the sinple factors of managing how your loadout affects your ships weight, power draw, maneuverability, utility, and general firepower.

so while engineerless Elite would result in everyone having an Anaconda, everyone can expect to do equal per-hardpoint damage to eachother, nobody is invincible, and pvp is encouraged.

An anaconda in an engineerless Elite lives and dies as a warship should, and Elite Dangerous never loses the "Dangerous" aspect, since even being in the best ship doesn't save you from death, but simply expands what you can do as a pilot in an all-rounder.

Thr drawback for larger ships was supposed to be that they are lacking in maneuverability.

Now all of this is circumvented by hurrrrrrr me grind in solo now have godmode planet glasser that turns on a dime.

Pre engineers elite was absolutely skill based in pvp. far more than it is now. now if you have the time to burn and grind your soul away, you dont have to try in any of your encounters.

We are going to talk past eachother, that is plain and simple.
> nobody wants to admit that their indestructable god cutter, and FDL that can hulltank a planetary collision and ram a hole through a star is an overcompensation tool. its far easier to say "jajaja ur bad. u just suck. get good scrub. ur mad cuz bad. jaja you LOST" because winning a dogfight was actually about dedicating thousands of hours to get this super roll on a very specific set of modules before the fight ever happened. yes. how could i have not thought of that. in a space sim I have played since 2014, where doing no such thing was heard of.

[/3udweiser /3andit]

pvp is absolutely supposed to be in elite. it is its largest feature of emergent gameplay considering systems change hands in faction conflicts. its hard to not participate in, sometimes its not even really a choice and its something that happens.

[/3udweiser /3andit]

its not about "pay to win" existing. its about the game innevitably not being fun because soon, nobody can hurt eachother and then Elite isnt "Dangerous"

I want the dangerous aspect. I dont want people to be safe. I dont want a mechanic in the game where you just grind your way to a point where you cant be hurt.

my participation in the system doesnt change it. rolling it back WOULD.

[/3udweiser /3andit]

how many more times will you let my words sail over your head because you simply do not see the larger picture and do not understand the concepts I am laying down before you.
this isnt magic the gathering.
this is a space sim.
with ships.
and dogfighting.
and certain rules that each ship sort of has to follow in order to feel like a space ship.

and what was introduced.
was a magic system that can protect people from harm better than cheats can

how does this not anger anybody. why do you just ACCEPT this?

[Genitor]

your point only stands in a scenario where one of the guys participating in a pvp-fight hast a non or substantially-less engineered ship then the other. If both ships are engineered to the brim noone has godmode (or both have godmode and you fight a fight of gods).

Since you are talking about the larger picture: Do you really think that there is even a tiny chance engineering is going to get dropped? If so the picture you are seeing is pretty damned small.

+ There also is CQC-mode if you like unengineered pvp so maybe try that.

[57]

OP, I'm curious. Was your vac ban for skill based PvP?

[Frank K]

Engineers are great! They allow you to customize ships for specific purposes or to fit your play style. Or just to create unique ships.

The ship that took me the longest to tweak perfectly is my Viper III. It's armed with with plasma accelerators and rail guns that I run assassination missions in. I can kill elite NPC Corvettes with it. It's balanced on the edge as far as power consumption and overheats really easily in combat. But it's hella fun to fly and really satisfying to murder pirate scum with.

[/3udweiser /3andit]

Originally posted by 57:

OP, I'm curious. Was your vac ban for skill based PvP?

It was from Gmod and i was ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ around in sp sandbox mode with a homebrew that was actually detected somehow. it was kinda funny. so to answer your question, no.

[/3udweiser /3andit]

Originally posted by Frank K:

Engineers are great! They allow you to customize ships for specific purposes or to fit your play style. Or just to create unique ships.

The ship that took me the longest to tweak perfectly is my Viper III. It's armed with with plasma accelerators and rail guns that I run assassination missions in. I can kill elite NPC Corvettes with it. It's balanced on the edge as far as power consumption and overheats really easily in combat. But it's hella fun to fly and really satisfying to murder pirate scum with.

Oh... customise ships for a specific utility... you mean.... Outfitting? im sure you are describing something that was in the game before engineers.

a booster stacked FDL and Cutter isnt unique with upgrades designed to make them invulnerable isnt unique or interesting, i see them all the time.

There really are no drawbacks to using engineers. If there are any its so negligible. Thats what makes them really no different from fighting than fighting a player who uses ENSD.

If engineers was this thing where you had a significant upgrade followed by a crippling drawback, then I wouldnt be complaining. Engineers should be as specialized as guardian stuff, where you can only have 3 or so super modules on your ship and purely experimental only. I could genuinely see the fun in that.

But as it stands, engineers is basically hax that you grind for.