Ships data discrepancy ( Is Mamba a useful ship?)

[ZenZone1]

Conflicting data:

Ship	agility coriolis.io	agility In-game
Mamba	117	3 bars]
Python	129	2 bars
Clipper	138	5 bars
Keelback	142	2 bars

Regarding the Mamba, it's pretty but quite useless IMO as it's barely more agile (6 pts mpre) than the Corvette. It's quite low in the agility ranking so what is it good for?

You can see for yourself here: https://coriolis.io/
There are more discrepancies.

I tend to trust coriolis because recently i flew the Phantom and it seems to turn slower than the Python.

The Clipper is portrayed in-game as a legendary ship in agility 5 bars compared to most other smaller ships but coriolis says otherwise. Even the Keelback can turn faster.

So who do you trust in your decisions in terms of what to buy and what to fly? Who do you think provides accurate data?

[ZenZone1]

I've highlighted the ships for visibility but forgot to add it in the original post so here it is.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WSvfpVzp3t-fQyI-8hFie1sL9ubrhots/view?usp=sharing

[Kevlar]

Quite simply disregard that data since it reflects the ships as they are sold.
if you want to have an idea of what a ship can do , A rate it at least and then look into the profile tab, ensuring you have selected at least 2 pips for engines.

[Agony_Aunt]

Those agility bars in game have never made any sense to me. Plus agility doesn't by itself tell the whole story.

The best way to understand how a ship flies is to actually fly it.

The Mamba is a fairly agile ship, but its more designed to be a jouster (flat profile, good top speed).

I recently kitted out a Mamba and me an a squadron mate too our Mambas into a CZ and it was great fun.

One of my favourite combat ships.

[[FuFo] Mortucus]

mamba is a disapointing ship alround
last time i use it i just went back to the python
its a good combat ship but no limpets for collection of downed ship mats makes it useless outside of just plain combat and bounty hunting

[ZenZone1]

Originally posted by Agony_Aunt:

Those agility bars in game have never made any sense to me. Plus agility doesn't by itself tell the whole story.

The best way to understand how a ship flies is to actually fly it.

The Mamba is a fairly agile ship, but its more designed to be a jouster (flat profile, good top speed).
...
.

But a flat profile should also make it more agile during turns because pitching it would create more aether resistance and so facilitate quicker turns than a compact shape like Diamondbacks. A similar comparison would be between Cobra and Viper; Cobra is flatter and therefore more agile. ASP Scout flatter than ASP-X and therefore more agile. So there's a bit of inconsistency in the way game mechanics are implemented. Otherwise the Mamba would make the premier dogfighter but sadly it's not even second place to FDL, as it stands it would be the Kraits or Python. Just putting my thoughts out there; maybe FD could tweak its flight envelope (give it better turning rate) and make Mamba more maneuverable and therefore more popular.

So hit and run as the shipyard description indicates is its best use. It's not good in a prolonged dogfight as it doesn't have shields as strong as the FDL nor even 4 bars of agility. A comparison between the two is like between F-15 and F-16; one is a strike fighter while the other is a superiority fighter.

It looks so cool though so i will use it more often and try to master it to the best of my ability.

[ZenZone1]

Originally posted by FuFo Mortucus:

mamba is a disapointing ship alround
last time i use it i just went back to the python
its a good combat ship but no limpets for collection of downed ship mats makes it useless outside of just plain combat and bounty hunting

I agree as multi-purpose ship Python is better and if my subjective perception isn't wrong Python turns better too.

[ZenZone1]

Originally posted by Kevlar:

Quite simply disregard that data since it reflects the ships as they are sold.
if you want to have an idea of what a ship can do , A rate it at least and then look into the profile tab, ensuring you have selected at least 2 pips for engines.

I have A-rated most of my ships and notice that the maneuverability bars in the shipyard never changed.

[Agony_Aunt]

Originally posted by ZenZone1:

Originally posted by Agony_Aunt:

Those agility bars in game have never made any sense to me. Plus agility doesn't by itself tell the whole story.

The best way to understand how a ship flies is to actually fly it.

The Mamba is a fairly agile ship, but its more designed to be a jouster (flat profile, good top speed).
...
.

But a flat profile should also make it more agile during turns because pitching it would create more aether resistance and so facilitate quicker turns than a compact shape like Diamondbacks. A similar comparison would be between Cobra and Viper; Cobra is flatter and therefore more agile. ASP Scout flatter than ASP-X and therefore more agile. So there's a bit of inconsistency in the way game mechanics are implemented. Otherwise the Mamba would make the premier dogfighter but sadly it's not even second place to FDL, as it stands it would be the Kraits or Python. Just putting my thoughts out there; maybe FD could tweak its flight envelope (give it better turning rate) and make Mamba more maneuverable and therefore more popular.

So hit and run as the shipyard description indicates is its best use. It's not good in a prolonged dogfight as it doesn't have shields as strong as the FDL nor even 4 bars of agility. A comparison between the two is like between F-15 and F-16; one is a strike fighter while the other is a superiority fighter.

It looks so cool though so i will use it more often and try to master it to the best of my ability.

Don't try and bring logic into it. ;)

I'm talking about what is, not what should be.

[Agony_Aunt]

Originally posted by ZenZone1:

Originally posted by Kevlar:

Quite simply disregard that data since it reflects the ships as they are sold.
if you want to have an idea of what a ship can do , A rate it at least and then look into the profile tab, ensuring you have selected at least 2 pips for engines.

I have A-rated most of my ships and notice that the maneuverability bars in the shipyard never changed.

Those are just the ratings for stock ships, and as i said, they don't make much sense anyway.

[Pike1263]

All I do is buy the ship I'm interested it in, A rate it out, and take it for a test drive. If I don't like it, I sell it back and think of it as a rental. I only use Coriolis to see if ideas for builds will work with the available module slots and such.
As a result, I have five go-to ships. I can take or leave the rest.

[Planewalker]

Mamba is a purebred combat/racing ship, so comparing it to a python is quite moot tbh.

Fully upgraded, the mamba is much more fun to fly(imo), however it will never be as versatile as the python. They are two very different ships, so it makes no sense to compare them.

In CZ's they will also play very differently, the python being a somewhat brickish tanker, and the mamba being a fast hit&runner.

IN multicrew, both ships become more versatile(in combat), and are good fun too.

[Agony_Aunt]

Originally posted by ZenZone1:

Originally posted by FuFo Mortucus:

mamba is a disapointing ship alround
last time i use it i just went back to the python
its a good combat ship but no limpets for collection of downed ship mats makes it useless outside of just plain combat and bounty hunting

I agree as multi-purpose ship Python is better and if my subjective perception isn't wrong Python turns better too.

Multi purpose, yes. Few ships are more fliexible than the Python.

Python turning better is debatable.

Someone did some tests of stripped down builds for manouverability and the Mamba is just ahead of the Python.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Bea2A7unDMO_zWOx6Il-hXymQRVGKenEZGEKEtygao0/edit#gid=0

However, the Mamba is probably a lot more weight sensitive, so if you are going for a heavy build then you're probably right.

I like to keep my Combat Mamba fairly lightweight to take advantage of speed rather than relying on defense.

[quiescentCeez]

I use https://edsy.org/ when it comes turn rate

As for overall info/data accurate? I've seen some differences between coriolis and edsy.
Can't say which is more accurate but edsy is a 'little' harder to use.

[Agony_Aunt]

Originally posted by Planewalker:

Mamba is a purebred combat/racing ship, so comparing it to a python is quite moot tbh.

Fully upgraded, the mamba is much more fun to fly(imo), however it will never be as versatile as the python. They are two very different ships, so it makes no sense to compare them.

In CZ's they will also play very differently, the python being a somewhat brickish tanker, and the mamba being a fast hit&runner.

IN multicrew, both ships become more versatile(in combat), and are good fun too.

Indeed, the top speed of the Python isn't that good and its role i would say is a "brawler". Gets stuck in and engages from close range, but doesn't have the turn rate or speed to be a proper dogfighter, so you need the heavy defenses for when you get hit, which you will, a lot.

Mamba is best as a "jouster", fit with long range weapons and fly at target while firing, zoom past, FA off, flip over, rinse and repeat. However, thanks to its speed it can also be a decent dogfighter.

Its a shame that we can't allocate shield strength to different parts of our ship, that would make jousters more interesting, putting shields to fore when approaching and shields to aft when past them.

[Moriarty!]

once you handle speed /fa off and drift the mamba as far more agility than many other mid size ships. With drifts (especially combined with fa off and forward thrust) you can out-turn (adjust speed accordingly) any ships and with the speed you can catch any target without boosting (dogfight). The Mamba also has a very very good brake. It's also the perfect ship for hit & run or jousting (high threat pirate zones...). I still need to travel 22k ly for palin drives.