Fleet Carrier: It's a Job It's a Business

[Greg]

If you haven't run a business I suggest you learn

[TiberiuS]

Originally posted by TPU_KOTA:

Originally posted by TiberiuS:

yes you can. you can use the carrier to store commodities and you can take those commodities out of the storage, transport it to a station and sell them there.

Ok. I'll explain: you CAN bring 25k of stuff somewhere. But you can't sell them in reasonable time and to the same buyer for a reasonable price. Ask any miner. If you bring 100t of diamonds, then you'll get 1m+ per tonne price. But if you bring more, the price will drop. You'll need a lot of jumping to sell 25k of diamons. I don't think that effort wil pay off.

maybe, but the question was about influencing the BGS in a meaningful way.

Just heard in the stream, that you actually have services that affect BGS.... you can cash in bonds and bounties.... yet no universal cartogpraphics. WUT?!

[Dolphin Bottlenose]

Originally posted by TPU_KOTA:

But if you bring more, the price will drop. You'll need a lot of jumping to sell 25k of diamons. I don't think that effort wil pay off.

Precisely. And if your effort was to crash the market - that effort will pay off wonders. And that's the BGS manipulation.

[Tormentor89]

Originally posted by CMDR WeeJet:

Originally posted by HamakiBCN2:

For people saying that we shouldn't criticize fleet carriers because "if you don't like it, don't buy it", two things:

-The developers themselves are actively asking for feedback on this feature, including two public betas and a dedicated forum thread in the official forum. the last thing developers want is some **** in the forums saying we shouldn't be giving feedback because it's negative. So you guys aren't defending the developers, you're actively trying to sabotage them. Maybe think about that for a minute.

-Saying that, if we don't agree with something, we can just not use it, makes as much sense as saying that if you think what i just said is wrong, you can always not respond to me at all. Are you going to do that?

issue is 99% of the people complaining are not giving actual valid reasons to complain. people are basically yelling "i want it for free" or "i dont like this so their is no point adding it to the game" people are just finding reasons to hate them for the sole purpose of hating them.

5 billion isn't free.

[Greg]

Just a coupla things, please feel free to add...

1) 25k of stuff is ALL stuff including # of ships in shipyard, ie stored and ones for sale, all modules grade 1 through 5 ect. and if I heard them right a ship for instance takes up multiple spots of the 25k. That needs to be raised like they raised the material/data total volume from 100 TOTAL to up to 300 each.
2) NPC's need to be involved. Frank mentioned the BGS and his player faction, group and/or squadron. In this case if your peeps land/trade and or buy/sell on your carrier that's great but, what happens when the new wears off and no one is playing? Trust me...it happens after every update.
3) As you all well know the verse is vass. Most of the time in the bubble you may see a player or two. I repeat; a player or two. I vision 50 fleet carriers parked outside Jameson coriolis and fleet the owners all screaming for someone to land and buy/sell or trade while they keep lowereing there prices.
4)...

[Planewalker]

Originally posted by Frank K:

You mean if you don't want to play a game you don't like being forced to? I hate that too, when those damn devs come to my house and force me into my chair. WT actual F? In case you haven't noticed, gambling involves REAL money.

If you don't want the responsibilities and time investment of owning and managing a Fleet Carrier here's a radical solution... don't buy one.

Good job on missing my point on purpose just to reinforce your own deflection.

You know full well what i meant, and after the way you answered my point about borderline gambling mechanics, don't bother pursuing that as i will not reply. eod



Final point still stands:


FCs can be attractive for all players if implemented in a wholesome and sensible way that adds to, and even enhances gameplay without detracting from it.

(i already see a lot of good things that can come from them as is; hopefully the beta will make it even more coherent)


It is purely about getting the best of "both worlds", and that is in no way impossible or insurmountable.


-hence my quote on the last line of the post, pure and simple.

[TiberiuS]

Originally posted by Greg:

3) As you all well know the verse is vass. Most of the time in the bubble you may see a player or two. I repeat; a player or two. I vision 50 fleet carriers parked outside Jameson coriolis and fleet the owners all screaming for someone to land and buy/sell or trade while they keep lowereing there prices.

Except that you cant.

You can't park your carrier at Jameson or any permit locked system for that matter
You can't lower the prices below a certain point (galactic average? Maybe not cheaper than the price you bought them hopefully)
You can't store and sell rare commodities
You can't sell AX, Guardian or other "unlockable" modules
You can't sell unlockable ships like Empire and Fed ships.
You can't sell engineering materials or data


The things which would have made the markets at carriers valid, like selling rare stuff or things you don't get anywhere else in the game are excluded.
That leaves us with a market in which you can only buy/sell stuff for either the same or a higer price than at starports.

Edit:
There is no player production chains in the game. Means players can't create wealth through processing, which basically rules out any interesting player economy. The thing you can do is hauling "needed" stuff in specific systems and sell it for a higher price and/or fly missions with it. Bulk carrier trading. Like medicines in outbreak systems kind of thing. But with 25kT it may have a huge influence on BGS good and bad.

[Landstander]

Originally posted by bigmikewr:

funny enough, because of this whole debacle, i gave No Mans Sky another chance and that game really changed. Im a sucker for having a capital ship in space games, and currently NMS is the only game of its kind that allows me to have a "freighter" thats as big as a Star Destroyer, and looks like one too. plus no maintenance costs, and the ability to jump it ANYWHERE AT ANYTIME, make it worth grinding for.....unlike this garbage. dont get me wrong, im not done with ED. i got a Corvette that, between the Federal rank grinding, the money saving, and the grade 5 engineering, that im really proud of, i grinded because i had the prospect of just having fun afterwards sitting in my Vettes cockpit in VR mode bounty hunting. when grinding is forced on me, its not fun, and i dont wanna do it. my Vette and Cutter will probably be the biggest ships i will ever own sadly, unless they rework this

empyrion galactic survival. you can build it y ourself

[ZombieHunter]

OP I suggest you go play another game. This isn't a business game. X4 is. But it doesn't run when I'm not in game. So I can gradually build up my business. Also have all kinds of business games and they don't run when I'm not playing them. It isn't a matter of being a business or being whatever it is a matter of the game continuing to deduct while you take a break. That isn't a game that is a job. And b/c it is a game it is more like babysitting than a job. And I won't babysit FC's or anything else in any game that I have.

[Stelar Seven]

Originally posted by ZombieHunter:

OP I suggest you go play another game. This isn't a business game. X4 is. But it doesn't run when I'm not in game. So I can gradually build up my business. Also have all kinds of business games and they don't run when I'm not playing them. It isn't a matter of being a business or being whatever it is a matter of the game continuing to deduct while you take a break. That isn't a game that is a job. And b/c it is a game it is more like babysitting than a job. And I won't babysit FC's or anything else in any game that I have.

Spend time on the words Massive Multiplayer Online.

The worlds and carriers, continue even if you sleep. Perhaps you need a single player game experience.

[ZombieHunter]

Originally posted by Stelar Seven:

Originally posted by ZombieHunter:

OP I suggest you go play another game. This isn't a business game. X4 is. But it doesn't run when I'm not in game. So I can gradually build up my business. Also have all kinds of business games and they don't run when I'm not playing them. It isn't a matter of being a business or being whatever it is a matter of the game continuing to deduct while you take a break. That isn't a game that is a job. And b/c it is a game it is more like babysitting than a job. And I won't babysit FC's or anything else in any game that I have.

Spend time on the words Massive Multiplayer Online.

The worlds and carriers, continue even if you sleep. Perhaps you need a single player game experience.

ED is not a true MMO. And no all MMOs do not have those features. ESO does not and Star Trek Online does not. There are other examples. There isn't just one formula by which to build an MMO. Some of them do things others don't and vice versa.

So try to fathom the following equation for a moment.

A is an MMO. B is another MMO. Both are MMO's.

A != B.

[Stelar Seven]

I don't need to. You want the game to stop when you are offline. Like a single player game.

However BGS goes on without you.
Power Play goes on without you.
Community Goals go on without you
The markers go on without you
And soon
Carries will go on without you.

Because just like power play, community goals, the markets and BGS carriers are online content that affects everyone, even if you just use yours to camp a parking space.

Playing No true Scottsman fallacy with the term MMO doesn't change that.

[caaront]

I do understand, FD equates grind and work to fun and exciting. When I first started playing I had a FC in my future as I had read about them. When I was grinding for rank, I did not stop when I unlocked the Corvette and Cutter as many do. I thought the fleet carriers might be locked behind the rank of King or Admiral, lol, so I trudged on through to the highest ranks.

And I figured correctly early on that everything ED involved grind, and likely always would, so I thought if FCs ever made it into the game at all, there would be high costs and grind coming in with them.

But if you remember the theory/day dreaming posts on what fleet carriers would be like, you'll also remember folks were guessing 50-100 billion credits, gathering mats upon mats to build them, etc, what we got is a lot more bearable than most players were predicting.

[Agony_Aunt]

Originally posted by Stelar Seven:

However BGS goes on without you.
Power Play goes on without you.
Community Goals go on without you
The markers go on without you

None of those things result in you losing money for not playing though.

Funny thing is, apparently FCs were initlally going to be a squadron thing, but after people gave feedback, FD then delayed FCs by like a year and made them available to all... but, seemingly, kept their operational aspects as group features.

So now i'm really curious why they just didn't leave them as a group (squadron) feature!?

At least if they were group owned then they could be managed as a group. Individually owned then they are less useful to a group as you are entirely dependent on the owner, with no ability for other group members to activate jumps, manage prices, etc.

I'm scratching my head over this.

[Stelar Seven]

I would chalk that up to theft. Can't steal them as they are and I can see lots of ways to help the group with mine.

As for costing money, they so have costs, but indirect. The most obvious is probably the loss from mining profit if your sell hub crashes but there are plenty of ways for the BGS to alter your income.

What they all have in common is that the effort you put in can be undone while you are offline, so clearly that concept is not new to the game.

[Greg]

Never said ED was a business game but thank you for the suggestion.