Shields mechanic.

[Florelit]

Guys, could anybody explain me why Phyton has more in shields power than Krait Phantom with the same shield generator. As I understand Krait should have more, because his hull mass is lower.

[Agony_Aunt]

Hull mass.

Shield generators have an optimal (and min and max) mass. Shields perform at best bang for buck if the ship they are fitted to has at least optimal mass of the shield or less.

Since the ships are very similar in terms of modules, you're going to be adding roughly the same mass from them, but the hull mass is different, which will make the difference.

[Florelit]

Yes, I understand this but the explanation from here
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/102277-Why-can-t-I-add-shields-to-my-Cobra-It-tells-me-it-s-too-heavy?p=1584309&viewfull=1#post1584309
ruins all my math
According to it and talking about 6a shield generator Krait Phantom should have more shields power?

[Florelit]

Phyton has the same hull mass as type7.
But 6a raw shields strength for type7 is much less than for phyton. Am I missing something?

[Mini_Watto]

Each ship has its own individual multiplier values that determine their base shield strength. Some, such as the Fer-de-Lance, are much higher than others of the same sort of ship size. The Python's is higher than the Krait's. It's just an intrinsic value that you cannot change.

[Mini_Watto]

It's worth adding that this isn't always a bad thing, it can determine whether ships work better with high capacity shields such as prismatics or high regen bi-weaves. The Krait can go either way, but the bi-weave (at least, for PvE) is nothing to be sniffed at. A thermal resistant engineer mod with some resistance engineered booster can get you a low capacity shield that's very resilient to most attacks, and will regenerate fast. They also consume less power.

[Wesker]

I am by no means very knowledgeable in such things but I think each ship has some kind of shield multiplier in place,

A good example is my Cobra vs my Conda, the class 4 A reinforced generator in my Cobra puts out 192 mj, put that very same shield generator in my Conda and it gives you over 300 mj, I don't remember exactly how much as I only put it in there as a temporary thing to do a max cargo run,

But I was very amazed at the difference, and that's without any boosters,

That is a massive size and mass difference, which leads me to think that the Conda has a higher multiplier.

[Florelit]

I do not think it's a bad thing ) i'm just trying to understand, how to determine if my new ship will have more shields power than my current one, without going to coriolis. I thought that the main parameter is the hull mass of the ship (talking about the same class shield generators). Now I see this is not true.

[Mini_Watto]

Unfortunately without using Coriolis or any online ship builder it can be hard to tell at a glance which will be better. Depending on what size generator the ship comes with as standard, you may be able to tell from the ship's statistics on the purchase window, but that's far from accurate at telling you what the eventual difference will be. My advice would be to have multiple types of shields available (high capacity and regen) so you can fit whatever you like best. Also worth considering how well the ship's other performance metrics compare, with the Krait for example having advantages in agility and a fighter.

But yeah, TL;DR answer, it's just an intrinsic value. Use trial-and-error or an online ship builder to check values. Hope this helped!

Edit: Saw you said phantom, not MkII. Phantom has no fighters.

[Florelit]

Guys, thank you all. I've found an explanation... didn't take in account the base shields strength which is shown on the shipyard.

[Florelit]

Richard (Mini) eredeti hozzászólása:

Unfortunately without using Coriolis or any online ship builder it can be hard to tell at a glance which will be better. Depending on what size generator the ship comes with as standard, you may be able to tell from the ship's statistics on the purchase window, but that's far from accurate at telling you what the eventual difference will be. My advice would be to have multiple types of shields available (high capacity and regen) so you can fit whatever you like best. Also worth considering how well the ship's other performance metrics compare, with the Krait for example having advantages in agility and a fighter.

But yeah, TL;DR answer, it's just an intrinsic value. Use trial-and-error or an online ship builder to check values. Hope this helped!

Edit: Saw you said phantom, not MkII. Phantom has no fighters.

I know about the fighters ) I just love my Python so much... but started thinking about changing it to something new (do not want to pick anything from huge ships). And I don't like to hop from one ship to another so was looking for almost the same multipurpose ship.

[Mini_Watto]

Florelit eredeti hozzászólása:

Richard (Mini) eredeti hozzászólása:

Unfortunately without using Coriolis or any online ship builder it can be hard to tell at a glance which will be better. Depending on what size generator the ship comes with as standard, you may be able to tell from the ship's statistics on the purchase window, but that's far from accurate at telling you what the eventual difference will be. My advice would be to have multiple types of shields available (high capacity and regen) so you can fit whatever you like best. Also worth considering how well the ship's other performance metrics compare, with the Krait for example having advantages in agility and a fighter.

But yeah, TL;DR answer, it's just an intrinsic value. Use trial-and-error or an online ship builder to check values. Hope this helped!

Edit: Saw you said phantom, not MkII. Phantom has no fighters.

I know about the fighters ) I just love my Python so much... but started thinking about changing it to something new (do not want to pick anything from huge ships). And I don't like to hop from one ship to another so was looking for almost the same multipurpose ship.

I have a Krait Mk.II as a PvE multipurpose ship. Though it has weaker defences than the Python, I prefer the increased agility and the ability to have a fighter, but it's all down to personal preference. If you have the money, play with both to find out which you prefer, because no list of statistics or youtube videos will be able to properly decide for you without any experience in the field. If you don't have the cash, I'd advise you to stick to what you know for now until you do, maybe do some Opal mining to reach the credit threshold.

As withh all ships, there's also aesthetic preferences, which are even more personal. I guess I like the Krait better for that as well.

[GunBoat]

Always keep the optimal mass of the shield above the BASE HULL MASS. Do NOT count internal mass. With that base of understanding now all ships even of the same base hull mass have different shapes and proportions of their size. That is what drives different strengths tho you have maintained the optimal above the base hull mass. It's like some ships stretch the shield to be a little weaker just due to size or proportion of size even tho the hull mass in the same.

[Florelit]

Richard (Mini) eredeti hozzászólása:

Florelit eredeti hozzászólása:

I know about the fighters ) I just love my Python so much... but started thinking about changing it to something new (do not want to pick anything from huge ships). And I don't like to hop from one ship to another so was looking for almost the same multipurpose ship.

I have a Krait Mk.II as a PvE multipurpose ship. Though it has weaker defences than the Python, I prefer the increased agility and the ability to have a fighter, but it's all down to personal preference. If you have the money, play with both to find out which you prefer, because no list of statistics or youtube videos will be able to properly decide for you without any experience in the field. If you don't have the cash, I'd advise you to stick to what you know for now until you do, maybe do some Opal mining to reach the credit threshold.

As withh all ships, there's also aesthetic preferences, which are even more personal. I guess I like the Krait better for that as well.

I'm using Phyton for a year already. Just you know, I've opened every thechnobrocker blueprint, engineered my ship to all grades I wanted. And now i'm looking for a new aim.
The next thing planned was to pick mamba or some of kraits.
But as always - getting something (like agility or fighter bay) is leading to some losses (like modules count etc.). And looks like i became a greedy person ;)

[Florelit]

God eredeti hozzászólása:

Always keep the optimal mass of the shield above the BASE HULL MASS. Do NOT count internal mass. With that base of understanding now all ships even of the same base hull mass have different shapes and proportions of their size. That is what drives different strengths tho you have maintained the optimal above the base hull mass. It's like some ships stretch the shield to be a little weaker just due to size or proportion of size even tho the hull mass in the same.

Thank you very much for the information!

P.S.: topic could be closed