Elite Dangerous

Elite Dangerous

Viper MkIV combat build
I used coriolis.io to make a ship for a friendly battle with another Viper MkIV of unknown outfitting. This is the first time I've made a ship for combat, and would love critiques and suggestions. Thank you to all who respond!

https://coriolis.io/outfit/viper_mk_iv?code=A2pbteFel9dasef42a2a24240503475e0k290g2p---.Iw18SQ%3D%3D.IwBhrSrCJI%3D%3D..EweloBhBGA2EoDcCWAHApgJwPoFsDW2yiIME5ClEQA%3D%3D

**NOT my ship of choice -- we chose something relatively cheap because the point of what we're doing is a fight to the death**
Last edited by CzechThisOut38; Mar 4, 2020 @ 7:48am
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Showing 16-30 of 36 comments
UnwieldyRex Mar 5, 2020 @ 3:23am 
Originally posted by HamakiBCN2:
I did find a cripplying mistake in your build...

You used a Viper Mk IV. :steammocking:

Let's just say you're much better off with the Mk3.

I'm curious as to why? The Mk IV has the same firepower potential (same hardpoint sizes), better hulls, better shields, longer jump range, not that much of loss in either speed or agility. Seems like the Mk IV would be a better choice? Only thing I can think of is different hardpoint placement? But I don't see them going too far off the Mk III's, being a newer "generation" of the same ship, albeit a little bigger and heavier.
Mr Robert House Mar 5, 2020 @ 5:46am 
Originally posted by crotaslayer15:
Unengineered: https://s.orbis.zone/68zd

Engineering floorplan: https://s.orbis.zone/68zm
There are a many many problems with those builds I would rethink them before you waste mats.

3 different weapons with different projectile speeds
Armor engineering is wrong, you want reactive armor and HRPs, all heavy duty with 1 to give you some thermal resistance
B rated thrusters and distro?
E rated life support?
2 heat sinks?

Notice how all your HRPS are cancelling each other out
https://s.orbis.zone/6961
This is better and uses less optionals
Last edited by Mr Robert House; Mar 5, 2020 @ 5:51am
neuroperson Mar 5, 2020 @ 8:39am 
Originally posted by Ildryn:
Originally posted by neuroperson:
This my PvE combat Krait
https://s.orbis.zone/68y_

I can stay out in a combat zone all day, even if I goof up against 4 Anancondas, I just repair up in the field like nothing happened and get back to it, but it would be very unsual for anything to even get past the shields

And as for the figher I mine is elite class, and I use the one with the fixed beam

https://s.orbis.zone/68z1
I use this. Much more shield mj, damage, resists, and longevity. Doesn't rely on cell banks, ammo that can run out anytime soon, or hacked shield boosters. (Shield booster with 293.6% bonus???? Really?)

It is so satisfying smacking around an Anaconda and killing it in less than 10 seconds...

Hey I do like your build, much better armor and hull. That reactive armor costs more than my entire ship!!! Not that cost is really an issue but to me all that extra hull and armour is way overkill, I just havent found that I need more armor and hull, because no PvE ever gets past my shields The chaff helps reduce some of the incoming damage, if the shield starts getting low (rare) just pop a cell bank. Again this is just my PvE setup, and so dont really need the extra armor an hull other than whats there. And not having a fighter is just silly. Having an extra fixed beam elite fighter is fantastic for DPS. Id say your build does less DPS for over twice the cost.

This is my PvThargoid build, very heavy on the armor and hull and shield https://s.orbis.zone/4ytg
HamakiBCN2 Mar 5, 2020 @ 8:55am 
Originally posted by UnwieldyRex:
Originally posted by HamakiBCN2:
I did find a cripplying mistake in your build...

You used a Viper Mk IV. :steammocking:

Let's just say you're much better off with the Mk3.

I'm curious as to why? The Mk IV has the same firepower potential (same hardpoint sizes), better hulls, better shields, longer jump range, not that much of loss in either speed or agility. Seems like the Mk IV would be a better choice? Only thing I can think of is different hardpoint placement? But I don't see them going too far off the Mk III's, being a newer "generation" of the same ship, albeit a little bigger and heavier.

"not that much loss of agility", that'a a 25% loss of agility and a 20% loss of speed with A-rated thrusters. that's HUGE for a small combat ship, where speed and agility is life. The extra shield gets nullified by the hull being 4 times as heavy (shield efficacy decreases with hull mass), And the extra hull is completely pointless since it's still a small ship, not a hull tank.

edit: not to mention that Viper Mk 3 can carry Enhanced thrusters, while Mk 4 can't. so actually the speed /agility difference between a Mk 3 and a mk 4 is not 20%...it's actually close to 40% (378m/s vs. 511 m/s)

If you want something with better shields, hull and jump range than a Viper Mk3, then get a Cobra Mk 3, that's better than the viper Mk 4 in every conceivable way. Otherwise, stay with the viper Mk 3. There's no good reason to get the Viper Mk 4.
Last edited by HamakiBCN2; Mar 5, 2020 @ 9:10am
Ildryn Mar 5, 2020 @ 11:46am 
Originally posted by neuroperson:
Id say your build does less DPS for over twice the cost.

Your build 104.5 dps
My build 316.6 dps
3 times the dps.
The ship does cost twice as much....but does 3 times the damage.
It exceeds your build in every way other than cost.
You can always use lightweight armor and use heavy duty engineering.
With many times the effective shield with proper pip management.
I am curious if you just looked at the fit without looking at the stats.
And remember your build has a shield booster that isn't possible at over 200%.
Last edited by Ildryn; Mar 5, 2020 @ 12:15pm
HamakiBCN2 Mar 5, 2020 @ 11:57am 
@Ildryn

I do have a question about your build, though: what's with that 64 ton extra fuel tank and a size 5 fuel scoop? is that some sort of mission-specific loadout?
Ildryn Mar 5, 2020 @ 12:01pm 
Originally posted by HamakiBCN2:
@Ildryn

I do have a question about your build, though: what's with that 64 ton extra fuel tank and a size 5 fuel scoop? is that some sort of mission-specific loadout?
It's for spending a lot of time finishing the pirate massacre missions. Plasma Slug is limited by fuel available.
HamakiBCN2 Mar 5, 2020 @ 12:14pm 
Originally posted by Ildryn:
Originally posted by HamakiBCN2:
@Ildryn

I do have a question about your build, though: what's with that 64 ton extra fuel tank and a size 5 fuel scoop? is that some sort of mission-specific loadout?
It's for spending a lot of time finishing the pirate massacre missions. Plasma Slug is limited by fuel available.

I thought that much, but i had to ask :steamhappy:
Ildryn Mar 5, 2020 @ 12:16pm 
Originally posted by HamakiBCN2:
Originally posted by Ildryn:
It's for spending a lot of time finishing the pirate massacre missions. Plasma Slug is limited by fuel available.

I thought that much, but i had to ask :steamhappy:
This is very closely related to Exigeous' build. I saw him using something very similar. I prefer not use fighters but a fighter can be employed while only minimally sacrificing armor.
Last edited by Ildryn; Mar 5, 2020 @ 12:17pm
UnwieldyRex Mar 5, 2020 @ 12:31pm 
Originally posted by HamakiBCN2:
"not that much loss of agility", that'a a 25% loss of agility and a 20% loss of speed with A-rated thrusters. that's HUGE for a small combat ship, where speed and agility is life. The extra shield gets nullified by the hull being 4 times as heavy (shield efficacy decreases with hull mass), And the extra hull is completely pointless since it's still a small ship, not a hull tank.

I'm not sure what builds you're making, but making them as close to equal as possible (other than utilizing size 4 thrusters on the Mk IV, because only an idiot would downgrade in a combat build), my builds I see (viewed from the perspective of the Mk IV):

10 percent slower top speed (409 vs 454) - G5 dirty/drags

9.2 percent slower boost speed (515 vs 567) - G5 dirty / drags.

7.6 percent INCREASE in roll IN FAVOR of the Mk IV (112 vs 104 degrees / second)

7.5 percent decrease in pitch (37 vs 40)

11.8 percent decrease in yaw (15 vs 17).

NOWHERE near your figures. With the highest decrease in agility of 11.8 percent being yaw and the others being a sub-10 percent difference, the whole agility in favor of the Mk III is a freaking joke. I would classify it as "not that much loss in agility". A difference of 10% and 9.2 percent in corresponding speeds is null when you're already flying circles around the big combat contenders in-game. At those little of differences it's going to come down to pilot skill to stay on line of sight to your target rather than the ship capabilities.

And keep in mind, that's with G5 dirty/drag thrusters. Unmolested, vanilla A-rated thrusters are an even bigger joke in difference (also viewed from Mk IV):

9.2% slower (289 vs 312)

8.6% slower boost (364 vs 398)

8 2% increase (79 vs 73)

7.2% loss (26 vs 28)

8.3% loss (11 vs 12)

Even using factory E-rated thrusters on the Mk IV but A-rated on the Mk III (both G5 dirty/drives), the difference is only a 15.5% / 14.9% loss in top speed / boost and a 1% increase in roll, 12.5% loss in pitch, and a 17.6% decrease in yaw. So I would like to know what ass you pulled your 25- and 20- percent differences from?
Last edited by UnwieldyRex; Mar 5, 2020 @ 12:49pm
UnwieldyRex Mar 5, 2020 @ 12:54pm 
I think I see the issue, by the chance did you mistakenly compared the Mk III and Mk IV COBRAS not the VIPERS? Cuz the difference between the Mk III to the Mk IV Cobra is about 25% and 20%...
Mr Robert House Mar 5, 2020 @ 1:01pm 
Regarding plasma slug rails, how much fuel do they burn? I'm guessing a lot if you need that tank. The heat reduction looks really nice to put on overcharged or short range rails

Edit Short range since overcharged rails don't exist
Last edited by Mr Robert House; Mar 5, 2020 @ 1:05pm
Ildryn Mar 5, 2020 @ 1:03pm 
Originally posted by Mr Robert House:
Regarding plasma slug rails, how much fuel do they burn? I'm guessing a lot if you need that tank. The heat reduction looks really nice to put on overcharged or short range rails
I often take missions with a total kill requirement of 100 or so. I have found that without the tank I only get to 40-50 or so. Rather than leave and scoop I started packing an extra tank so now I can complete my missions without flying back.
HamakiBCN2 Mar 5, 2020 @ 4:07pm 
Originally posted by UnwieldyRex:
I think I see the issue, by the chance did you mistakenly compared the Mk III and Mk IV COBRAS not the VIPERS? Cuz the difference between the Mk III to the Mk IV Cobra is about 25% and 20%...

You know what, i'll take your numbers...10% difference in speed and agility is still a downgrade, Still an idiotic ship. slower than the Viper mark 3, way more expensive, and worst than a equally priced Cobra Mk3 in every conceivable way.

Why would anyone get a Viper Mk 4 instead of a Viper Mk 3 or a Cobra Mk 3 is beyond me.
neuroperson Mar 6, 2020 @ 6:37am 
Originally posted by Ildryn:
Originally posted by neuroperson:
Id say your build does less DPS for over twice the cost.

Your build 104.5 dps
My build 316.6 dps
3 times the dps.
The ship does cost twice as much....but does 3 times the damage.
It exceeds your build in every way other than cost.
You can always use lightweight armor and use heavy duty engineering.
With many times the effective shield with proper pip management.
I am curious if you just looked at the fit without looking at the stats.
And remember your build has a shield booster that isn't possible at over 200%.

On paper sure, but not in actual practice. An elite fighter with a fixed beam does insane DPS, and thats in reality. I dont think anyone would recommend a PvE build with a Krait II and not have a fighter, that is just not common sense. Again, you just dont need all armor and hull if your arent doing PvP or fighting Thargoids. Plus using gimballed weapons, every one of my shots hit. No waiting around and positioning for the perfect shot to maybe hit. In my experience gimballed does more actual DPS, just becuase of hit factor. If they chaff me, I turn off targeting and me and the fighter let them have it. but again battles are one or two passes at most. PLus I dont know anyone who uses rails on a Krait, they are more for smaller manueverable ships that can target subsystem at a distance. Plus no energy weapons to melt shields. Really an overpriced, great on paper build.
Last edited by neuroperson; Mar 6, 2020 @ 6:37am
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Date Posted: Mar 4, 2020 @ 7:37am
Posts: 36