Stealth Build Criteria

[Frase]

Just looking for some insight into stealth building criteria and what actually makes a ship stealthy.

First and formost what exactly is the criteria for your ship running in "stealth" by this i mean not targetable with turrets/gimbals. From what I understand you are always targetable inside 500M but again, outside of this what is the criteria.

Can this be achieved by simply keeping heat below a certain ammount or do you have to silent run/pop heatsinks?

Cheers!

[Ildryn]

Silent running and heatsinks are a must for most silent runners.
Some silent running does not require heatsinks at all and is more situation based.
It depends on the ship and the fit.

Easily defeated by long range sensors or emissive lasers.

[FalterXV TTV]

There are two types of Silent Running Builds - I class them under two types:
A: Full Silent .
B: Cold as frig, standard runner.

By default the following craft, specializse in staying / and or fully running cold:
Small Class : Diamondback Scout / Explorer
Medium Tier : Federal Dropship/ Assault Ship / Gunship, Asp Scout (possibly at times, Asp X), Keelback
Large Tier : Federal Corvette

Now, onto the discussion of maintaining a low signature - it all has to do with a few things :
1: placement in combat - first and foremost - is having the wherewithall, to be mindful enough to not prevent tagetting of yourself.
2: power usage, and power priorities - this is important and is key - overdrawing on your powerplant will exponentially increase the ammount of heat, per effect watte of energy consumed by your distributor when firing your weapons - as well as exponentially increase the ammount of heat per consumed boost - and how effective your build is at negating incoming heat, and disipating your own.
3: Flight - knowing how to fly FAoff is key to silent running - while not mandatory - it is nigh essential - and will ONLY increase your ability to evade fire, while keeping yourself as cold as possible - remember vectoring at full speeds, without applying thrust in FAoff - means you stay cold when an FAon pilot needs to constantly apply thrust to move in any direction.
4: Hardpoints - Fixed weapons, are somewhat of a must, you need maximum damage per shot delivered - and need to be able to deliver those shots without compromising your signature for too long, as firing will light you up on the sensors when you do so.

All key essentials - in Silent or Cold builds.

Onto, building ships that maintain low enough emmissions to make most, if not all standard PVE and PVP ships, harder to see you.

It is all about your running temperature / vs. heat per watte / vs. heat per jule of shield / vs. heat per dissipated energy.

Ill give an IE: for example again. - an actual example for encounters i have built towards and usually use to my advantage.
A Federal Dropship, maximizing speed, and armour - with low emmissions powerplant, and a biweave shield - 2 resist boosters, extra ammo mod chaff, and an ECM - Advanced Plasma (efficient 5 - target lock break), 4 Fixed fragment cannons (OC 5/ OC 5/ Eff. 5 / HighCap 5 - naked/ drag/ screen/ corrosive)
The internal temp while fully boosting and with guns deployed - puts the boosting dropship at a core temperature under duress at 34% heat.

When tested against one of my PVP trainees and trainers - in a combat python - he would lose me at ranges of 1.3 and up - i would be fully running, but despite his A grade lightweight sensors - i would slip off sensors, due to nature of my heat per watte of effective energy.
Couple that with a target lock break - you end up with a ship that can effectively never be targetted at mid to long engagement ranges.

This goes the same for full silent running builds, if you can keep the core temperature of your ship, low enough to prevent your fully durress emmissions from being seen - you won't need to activate silent that much.
The only hard counter to you, is an emmissive gun / coupled with a thermal shock weapon - fully silent builds will not only be hard countered by this - but any ship with a SLF capable of doing damge - if set on the silent runner - and that SLF sports Fixed weaponry - capable of outputting massive ammounts of damage - the mothership, WILL NOT EVEN NEED TO SHOOT.

I think two of the best examples of this - was combat i did against a couple PVP gankers.
One was during a live stream i was on - silent running FAS attacked the streamer i was playing with - and i was in a Gunship with Fixed Taipans - Silent Running FAS - was wrecked by the Taipans.
Second was with a friend i used to play with, who was disillusioned about PVP, and tried to convince me he didnt gank - tested a FAS against my corvette, as he claimed that is all he could hit with his fixed weapons - and lost in the same respect.

So, be mindful of SLFs. and Ships with proper Combat fits - especially those with A rated, long range sensors - no matter how cold you normally run against a NPC or normal player - against a player with long range 5 - he/ she will see you at 7.5 kilometers - even if you at 0% heat. proven fact.

So in the end, a few staple guidelines:
[Full Silent]
Low Emmissions Powerplant G3
Charge Enhanced Distributor G5
Lightweight G4 Life Support
Drives - DD5
Long Range G5 Sensors
Reactive Armour G5 Heavy / Lightweight
MRP appropriately fitted
HRPs if you have more than 3 HRPs - mod the smallest for Therm 5 - and every other size for HD5
Fixed weapons
[Low Emmisions, Hard to Detect fully Rigged]
Armoured 5 Powerplant
Charge Enhanced Distributor G5
Lightweight G4 Life Support
Drives - DD5
Long Range G5 Sensors
Reactive Armour G5 Heavy / Lightweight
MRP appropriately fitted
HRPs if you have more than 3 HRPs - mod the smallest for Therm 5 - and every other size for HD5

and FAoff - if you have not learned how to properly utilize it with FAon [making an assumption here about your flight style @OP] i suggest watching some of the videos by Moxxen on youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6zIXu52RnA

One of the hardest topics to discuss to normal FAon pilots, is how they are using FAoff incorrectly - so, if you have been using it as most FAon CMDRs do - flick it to off - pitch - flick it to on, you are actually vectoring into reverse - and you are, and will make it easier to hit you like that - you will slow down exponentially doing so.

Hope i answered in a way to be condusive, and gave you some food for thought - Good luck @OP, and safe travels

[Frase]

Was looking at a FGS, I'm fairly happy with the internals although with my limited experience running silent I'm open to any suggestions you may have. (build link below) Again I'm simply looking for advice on potential loadouts.

Would like a lot of secondary effect coverage.

Large: Fixed Multi overcharge {corrosive)
Medium: Sturdy Fixed Multi (thermal Shock)
Medium: Sturdy Fixed Multi (thermal Shock)
Medium: Efficient PA (break lock)
Medium: Efficient PA (dispersal field)
Small: Strudy Rail (Feedback cascade)
Small: Strudy Rail (Feedback cascade)

Fighter bays: 1x Fixed Beam Taipan and 1 Fixed Multicannon Condor

2 PIPS weapons can fire 3 Fixed multies without running out of distributor allows for some recharge between PA/RAIL shots

Again this is my first stealth build and I am more familiar with shield tank builds.

Feel free to give feedback/scrutinize/criticize,

I'm open to any module changes, engineering changes, weapon choices, secondary effects etc etc etc. I have thick skin.

I look forward to any constructive input.

https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/federal_gunship?code=A4pktkFflkdusnf47k26261g1g292902020200fmm92d2b2b2b6b27.Iw18RQ%3D%3D.Aw18RQ%3D%3D.H4sIAAAAAAAAA42SvUrEUBCFR9fEZLNmk7jJxlXxJ1kFC3vBwtJCbGwEG30DH8LC0sIHsPQNtFosbBd8AAtLyxVEVtE5zizkkmIDucVw4Hxzz2RuiB0i%2BrOkeE%2FfQJj%2FAPlbTIQZPlCrIcU5HwHRq1DJeAxglpOiq334CXS0NX70iNKXeaIs2Jb%2BBvcMtP8l%2FbchUed6UaBnV3yL9wrf1dRm4BNtqNpU1Ve1pQo2XxRktH5MtHvzDiwdrYrl8Glh%2Feqkc5pkaZKtSXD5zPhrOsm9XBVp6SqU6fRo1oE8PjHQshTrSvLs0QeQ6nYynQmtEmRVQQulOLcqzq8DtblfPBHp5062szLZflBthdVWxK0plj4sYt4xf8qDVP%2BySxSqiu7aRLkqJCVoYKCBgVShWwdK60C9EjQ00NBAqgCaev4Bu7gdTPoCAAA%3D.EweloRhCDYQBhAQwHZIMYHsUBMkmniKA

Engineering is not an issue, I have all the required engineers unlocked and the majority of the required materials/modules for the build. I also know how to get everything I need fairly easily so put whatever you want on any builds. Cash is also no problem.

(priorities not selected)


How the f*ck do I hyperlink stuff

[FalterXV TTV]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Frase:

. . . How the f*ck do I hyperlink stuff

Upper right hand, there is a shortlink option, copy the short link, and paste it to steam

Anyways, that is a good iniitial setup - i would think of altering a few things myself - first i would change the multicannon, to a large fragmentation with high capacity, and corrosive - fixed

Fighter hangar is a good choice! my Silent runner Gunship, uses the same kind of setup idea as yours does.

Sturdy rails, are a good choice, to be totally fair, i usually have better success with lightweight and longrange rail mounts on colder builds - not sure you will need 2 feedback rails, they won't double feedback ships - it only feedback attacks once - you may want a feedback, and a superpenetrator - if there is one thing, im never that certain on, it is railguns - being a huge fan of plasma, over rails all the time

Plasma upgrades are good, if you have an APA - i would use an Advanced Accel in the large, and 2 fixed Medium fragment launchers instead.

As for the multicanons - if you are going for thermal shock - i would do OC 5, thermal cascade cannons, at fixed instead - they will pair with the lead icon of the medium plasma guns.

But, if going multicannons, efficient upgrading will afford you a damage bonus, with a huge loss of heat energy per shot. You will want to have one corrosive gun - so, once your loadout is decided, make sure to include a corrosive multicannon, or fragment cannon somewhere - it will cut down on your need for sturdy - higher pen mediums - lowering their resists, and increasing all damage sources by 20% against their armour.
(corrosive will only stack once, so putting it on one gun, ideally your smallest version you can fit will be a good choice)

A Good start so far, but, the fine tuning, will come with pairing the weapons you do have, with the lead indicators each posses, with the velocity they travel at.

[Frase]

Ok your thought on munition velocity got me thinking. How does running Frags/PA as main damage with Rail reserved for when they are using SCB sound?

Frags and PA seems on paper to work well regarding munition velocity when leading

667m/s for the Frags and 875m/s for the PA's

Large: Doubleshot Frag (Screening shell) Decreases reload time on my highest DPS weapon...

Medium: Doubleshot Frag (Dazzle Shell)
Medium: Doubleshot Frag (Drag Munitions)
Medium: Efficient PA (Dispersal Field)
Medium: Efficient PA (Lock Break)

Small: Rail Sturdy Feedback Cascade (only strudy because lower thermal load)
Small: Overcharged Frag (corrosive) With corrosive lowering total ammo OC seems better than DS as DS will burn through too much ammo. Couple this with a higher base ROF and running out of corrosive ammo may be an issue, this won't happen with OC.

Not sure if double shots are the way to go as they generate more heat per second compared to overcharged frags, is the DPS boost worth sticking with DS frags... or would OC be better?

[Nfected]

Overcharge the frag, on paper you get just a bit less dps by using half the ammunition

[FalterXV TTV]

In regards to munition velocity, yes that is the right line of thinking about it, i can attest to the frags being a good pairing with PAs, as my Gunship runs medium frags next to her APA, and Medium PA mount.

As far as double shot, VS. OC - let me put it this way.
Double shot, uses more ammo to do what a OC does, in one of the same shots - think of double shot, like a rapid fire mod, that is Actually good as the ROF is increased, but you use ammo twice as fast, with the same Damage per spread as an OC 5 delivers.

OC 5 frags for higher damage per shot delivered - you won't even need incendiary - the ammount of pellets with full damage output at distances of 600 k or less, mean you do a lot to enemy craft, stacking corrosion when doing armour damage to most targets, results in death - very fast death.

Most ships, cant keep up with frags, however some can, and that is where your PA, and rails will come in handy.

You wouldnt mount incendiary, due to heat per pellet you get, so, that negates the silent running in a sense [at times] - unless the target, is very oblivious or, a very low end skill PVP target.

Drag rounds on one mount will help - as you will slow down the ships you hit, and since most targets are FAon - it will affect them greatly - against someone who flies FAoff, it won't do anything to them.
Watch if your target is burning contrails, or is always burning contrails to tell if they are FAoff or not.

But my line of thinking along double shot, goes something like this - single target, one encounter, double shot - if the target is going to be the product of a gank, double shot, you will usually have the upper hand as that player, or target, is much weaker in comparison

Full sustain PVP or PVE - OC 5, all the way - total damage is better spent, as you need sustain in PVP and in PVE, so it allows you to be tacticly flexible.
The fact you don't lose some range, is helpful too - allows for a margin of error

[Frase]

Guess weapon selection is done then.

Thanks for feedback, I'll engineer both DS/OC sets and swapout as and when the combat I'm in suits or stick with one if I feel one is out performing the other.

Cheers

07

EDIT:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Belial8915:

if the target is going to be the product of a gank, double shot, you will usually have the upper hand as that player, or target, is much weaker in comparison

FYI: Not going to be going around ganking people (not unless it's deserved)

[FalterXV TTV]

well, glad i could assist - have a blast! silent running combat ships are awesome, and low signature fully rigged, are also totes awesome!
Wish you the best of luck, in your future endeavors - fair winds, and following seas