Elite Dangerous

Elite Dangerous

Faster than light travel minutia
I have asked several people this question including my physics teacher, and they all seem to agree with me, but I'd be interested in hearing other people's oppinions. Anyways here's the question Let's say you're on the observation deck of a ship traveling FTL and you look out of a back facing window, would you see nothing?
I know that in a warp bubble we can assume things would look normal-ish, I'm thinking of an Impossible chemical drive.
Last edited by Greg the Peg-Leg Preg Dreg; Jan 12, 2017 @ 9:11am
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Showing 16-30 of 54 comments
Originally posted by ZombieHunter:
Originally posted by Gary?:
it would be like in a zero g envrionment moving faster than light, you drift forward so you are going the same speed as the ship plus a little more (ie 2c+ 1m/s) so say that the ship is moving at light speed realitivley the electricity is moving a 2c because it is already accelerated with the ship.
This is impossible b/c the speed of light is the universal speed limit therefore electricity cannot travel faster than light. No the speed of electricity remains constant regardless of the craft's velocity.
ok well let's just say the phyicists figured something out. Look it's sci fi you need to ignore the impossibilities, I knew I should have asked people to in the post. Also the speed of light isn't the universal speed limit, galaxies more than 4200 megaparsecs appart move away from each other faster than light look up the Hubble Constant. I'm no expert I don't even have my gr 11 physics credit(half way through), I google things and am bound to make mistakes.
Last edited by Greg the Peg-Leg Preg Dreg; Jan 12, 2017 @ 9:18am
ZombieHunter Jan 12, 2017 @ 9:18am 
Originally posted by Gary?:
Originally posted by ZombieHunter:
This is impossible b/c the speed of light is the universal speed limit therefore electricity cannot travel faster than light. No the speed of electricity remains constant regardless of the craft's velocity.
ok well let's just say the phyicists figured something out. Look it's sci fi you need to ignore the impossibilities, I knew I should have asked people to in the post. Also the speed of light isn't the universal speed limit, galaxies more than 4200 megaparsecs appart move away from each other faster than light look up the Hubble Constant.
Nothing moves faster than the speed of light save something like quantum entanglement. The speed of light is the speed limit of the universe.

Also b/c the big bang is just empty space or vaccum it can expand at FTL b/c there is no matter that is achieving FTL. No object is ever achieving FTL. Nothing moves faster than the speed of light but depending on perspective in the universe they can appear to. But be sure that nothing does. We haven't found any matter yet that breaks this speed limit. Now in quantum terms everything starts to break down quickly and this is where our standard model starts to fall apart or not apply at all. We also do not understand gravity or mass and/or what particle causes these to occur. If we did then theoretically we could 'fool' the universe into thinking an object had zero mass and we could then at least achieve the speed of light but never beyond it. Since light has no mass and it travels at C then it serves to reason that C is the speed limit of the universe, else light would travel faster than C.
Last edited by ZombieHunter; Jan 12, 2017 @ 9:22am
Originally posted by ZombieHunter:
Originally posted by Gary?:
ok well let's just say the phyicists figured something out. Look it's sci fi you need to ignore the impossibilities, I knew I should have asked people to in the post. Also the speed of light isn't the universal speed limit, galaxies more than 4200 megaparsecs appart move away from each other faster than light look up the Hubble Constant.
Nothing moves faster than the speed of light save something like quantum entanglement. The speed of light is the speed limit of the universe.

Also b/c the big bang is just empty space or vaccum it can expand at FTL b/c there is no matter that is achieving FTL. No object is ever achieving FTL.
Galaxies do move faster than light, it depends on the observers loication my mistake usual space contridictions like Blackholes being the brightes objects in space even though light can escape.
ZombieHunter Jan 12, 2017 @ 9:23am 
Originally posted by Gary?:
Originally posted by ZombieHunter:
Nothing moves faster than the speed of light save something like quantum entanglement. The speed of light is the speed limit of the universe.

Also b/c the big bang is just empty space or vaccum it can expand at FTL b/c there is no matter that is achieving FTL. No object is ever achieving FTL.
Galaxies do move faster than light, it depends on the observers loication my mistake usual space contridictions like Blackholes being the brightes objects in space even though light can escape.
From our perspective galaxies 'appear' to move faster than light but they are not. No matter within them is achieving FTL. Space between us is expanding but b/c that space is vaccum no matter within it achieves FTL. Einstein's theory holds true. Nothing acheives FTL.

It is incorrect to think of galaxies moving in terms of motion in world space between our frame of reference and its frame of reference. Rather one should think about space being 'added' or 'expanded' between us and the galaxy. Rather than the galaxy 'moving' away from us it is expanding away from us. This means that relative velocity between us might indeed be zero and yet appears to be FTL b/c the space between us is expanding FTL. But it's not. Space is actually being 'added' between us and is expanding which is creating the illusion of world motion. We actually have no way of knowing if we are actually moving through world space relative to one another b/c we, too, are being expanded away from other celestial bodies and galaxies.
Last edited by ZombieHunter; Jan 12, 2017 @ 9:28am
Originally posted by ZombieHunter:
Originally posted by Gary?:
Galaxies do move faster than light, it depends on the observers loication my mistake usual space contridictions like Blackholes being the brightes objects in space even though light can escape.
From our perspective galaxies 'appear' to move faster than light but they are not. No matter within them is achieving FTL. Space between us is expanding but b/c that space is vaccum no matter within it achieves FTL. Einstein's theory holds true. Nothing acheives FTL.
yeah, like i was saying it depends on location, my comment was badly worded, but basically the same thing you said (this is what happens when I read about things in space without the full understanding of what it means)
ZombieHunter Jan 12, 2017 @ 9:31am 
Eventually those galaxies will fade from view b/c as the space between us expands light must now travel further. If space is being added between us faster than light can travel across it then the light wave will always be behind the expansion rate and thus we it will never reach us. It would be like a road crew constantly adding road and country side between you and your destination and your destination is 'pushed' away from you by the addition of the road and countryside. If it is being added at a rate faster than you can travel then you will never reach your destination.
Last edited by ZombieHunter; Jan 12, 2017 @ 9:35am
Originally posted by ZombieHunter:
Eventually those galaxies will fade from view b/c as the space between us expands light must now travel further. If space is being added between us faster than light can travel across it then the light wave will always be behind the expansion rate and thus we it will never reach us. It would be like a road crew constantly adding road and country side between you and your destination and your destination is 'pushed' away from you by the addition of the road and countryside.
I do know one way to make a laser point travel FTL if you were to shine the laser at the moon and swing your arm in any direction the lase dot will move across the surface FTL. and it's not matter or information moving so Einstein is still right
ZombieHunter Jan 12, 2017 @ 9:37am 
Truly the only way to achieve FTL is not to travel at all. Hence warping. But this is way beyond our current scientic knowledge which, to be honest, is still quite primitive when it comes to our universe.
Ofan Jan 12, 2017 @ 9:55am 
Who knows, given that the speed of light in a vac is always the same to an observer regardless of how fast they are travelling it's entirely possible that you would still be able to see stuff behind you, just severely shifted colour wise.

It's possible you would start seeing stuff from a different point in time or that given that all your 'energy' Is invested in motion that you would have none to allocate to the passage of time and everything would appear frozen as arguably time ceases to have meaning when you travel at that speed.
Last edited by Ofan; Jan 12, 2017 @ 9:58am
Ahead of you every photon would appear blueshifted, to varying degrees, as its wavelength would be compressed.

Behind you you'd see nothing, as no photons could ever catch up to you for you to observe them.

This...

Originally posted by Ofan:
Who knows, given that the speed of light in a vac is always the same to an observer regardless of how fast they are travelling...

... is incorrect. The speed of light is finite. The observation of it is what is always relative. Moving toward the source: blueshift. Moving away from the source: redshift. How fast one is traveling relative to that light, and in what direction, matters very much. It is the very thing responsible for the blue or red shift. Greater velocity towards: more extreme blueshift. Greater velocity away: more exteme redshift.
Last edited by Joki the Disco Bandit; Jan 12, 2017 @ 11:12am
funkynutz Jan 12, 2017 @ 11:15am 
First, there is no universal speed limit. We lack the capability to propel something faster than light, and we lack the capability to see anything moving faster than the speed of light. That doesn't in fact mean that it's impossible.

Imagine if 200 years ago you turned around and told someone that, in the not too distant future we'd be sticking 300 people in a metal tube with wings, and it would fly half way around the world in a few hours; just so people could go on holdiday in a different country for 2 weeks... You'd have been told it was impossible, called an imbecile/idiot, and quite likely been locked up and tortured for being ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ crazy.

20 years ago, having a video phone was the stuff of science fiction. Take a look at your mobile phone. Having a mobile phone that could fit into a pocket was almost inconceivable. Now imagine trying to tell someone with a "mobile" phone from the 80s that we'd be able to fit their phone into something not much bigger than a credit card, but it wouldn't just be a phone. It would have video conferencing capability, you'd use it to organise your entire life, store your entire music collection, share news articles with friends, keep track of the weather, and you'd be doing all this by touching a glass screen... You'd be back to the realms of 200 years ago trying to describe passenger jets to people. You'd be considered a lunatic. We've had that tech for a good few years already now, so much so that most of us barely even use it to it's full potential... We already take for granted "space age" tech, historically the stuff of science fiction.

Around 10 years ago scientists began finding evidence that the "universal laws of physics" weren't in fact universal at all... They found evidence that one of the "constants" of nature, is not actually constant and differs in various parts of the universe. This goes against Einstein's equivalence princicple, which along with the theory of relativity had itself previously overruled the idea that's now looking like it might in fact be true.

That's the beauty of science: even absolutes are not actually absolute, they're always open to new evidence. Theories that are widely accepted as fact, could be proved wrong tomorrow. In 50 years people will laugh at us for things we believe to be true now. On the other hand "crazy" theories that everybody has dismissed as lunacy could end up being proven to be true.

So just because something is impossible for us to do now, or just because it's "science fiction"; don't assume that it will always be like that. Some of those impossible things will become possible, maybe even taken for granted. Some of those cool gadgets you've seen on a scifi program/movie that could "never exist" in real life, might be in your hands in the next 10 years.
Last edited by funkynutz; Jan 12, 2017 @ 11:18am
Uueerdo Jan 12, 2017 @ 11:46am 
Originally posted by Ofan:
... time ceases to have meaning when you travel at that speed.
Actually, you kind of hit on a good point here; though I'm not saying everything would appear frozen in time or to move backwards. What is occurring to me is that time stops for things travelling at the speed of light, meaning the traveler has no "time" to perceive the universe as they travel. Such travel will be instantaneous from the traveler's perception, though the state of the universe will have appeared to have jumped forward instantaneously when they drop below lightspeed.

Now, if going faster than light were to actually reverse time for the traveler, they still wouldn't perceive anything during their travels; it is doubtful their brains would even work during this process, and uncertain they could survive it (we're not talking about actions being reversed, we're talking about things like the decay of subatomic particles being reversed.)
Last edited by Uueerdo; Jan 12, 2017 @ 11:47am
Time does not stop, or alter in any way, simply because one travels with high velocity.

People seem to forget what the "relativity" part of the theory actually refers to. It is the *meausurement* of time that is relative, *not* time itself.

Take the so-called "twin paradox". This theory holds that two twins, each with synchronized clocks, would experience time differently. One travels away from the other, approaching the speed of light. The theory says that the traveling twin's experience of time would slow, the faster he went.

B.S.

It is only the measurement that would change, and that only from the p.o.v. of the observer twin back on earth. The twin traveling would experience the exact same local time he always had. So would the one on earth. But to the one on earth, the space-twin's clock would *appear* to tick slower, i.e. its wavelength would be *redshifted*.

On the return journey the opposite would hold. The space-twin's clock would *appear* to tick faster, i.e. it would be blueshifted. But in no way would the twin in space have aged at any different rate. He would go the same distance out as in, and however long it took one way it would take the same time the other way, and once reunited the twins would be just what they always were: the same exact age.

The relativity *only* refers to the *observation or measurement* of light, NOT to the light itself. Light cannot be treated like any other object. It is *always* local light that we measure. It has to be, else it wouldn't be here for us to measure. We cannot measure light at a distance.

To "go backwards in time" is akin to saying one knows how, or can imagine how, to *unmeasure a thing*. If you can imagine how to UNmeasure something you have quite the imagination. Time IS measurement. All time is distance, one way or another. Without distance it is meaningless, and how can you unmeasure a distance?
Wolf Jan 12, 2017 @ 2:25pm 
Originally posted by Gary?:
Originally posted by astroknott58:
With a warping space drive everything would look completely normal.

You are in a bubble and not moving at all. You are bending space to move.

So conclusion. All would look normal.

Um... that's what I tell myself. Because that's how it is in the game. So that hasta be right......um.....right?
yeah. debating science of sci fi is ultimatly pointless even sci fi as detailed and AWSOME as The Expanse makes phisics impossabilities happen as a part of regular life
pointless? maybe. but interesting none the less :)
Ofan Jan 12, 2017 @ 2:29pm 
Originally posted by Hotblack Desiato:
Ahead of you every photon would appear blueshifted, to varying degrees, as its wavelength would be compressed.

Behind you you'd see nothing, as no photons could ever catch up to you for you to observe them.

This...

Originally posted by Ofan:
Who knows, given that the speed of light in a vac is always the same to an observer regardless of how fast they are travelling...

... is incorrect. The speed of light is finite. The observation of it is what is always relative. Moving toward the source: blueshift. Moving away from the source: redshift. How fast one is traveling relative to that light, and in what direction, matters very much. It is the very thing responsible for the blue or red shift. Greater velocity towards: more extreme blueshift. Greater velocity away: more exteme redshift.


Tell that to Einstein and Maxwell would ya, they asserted and accepted that c is a constant. c is calculated based on 2 constants themselves which are not dependant on the motion of an observer (permativity and permability). If you are saying c is not a constant then you are saying they are not constant either.......Nope. This is how physics makes sense when you look at all inertial frames.

It's also why a transmitter works when in motion.
Last edited by Ofan; Jan 12, 2017 @ 2:33pm
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Date Posted: Jan 10, 2017 @ 4:13pm
Posts: 54