Lasers or guns in large hardpoints

[forcecomdr]

Just bought my first ship with a large HP.

My question is which weapon type should i put in the large slot vs the med slots?

I'd read that it's better to put something like a MC in the big hp and lasers in the smaller ones because the lasers all do the same dmg to shields but once they are down the larger MC would do more dmg to the hull?

Should i put a large MC and 4 med lasers because there's no size penalty for the lasers vs shields; where as the MC would have a penalty against larger ships?

... am i remembering tthis correctly?

[Turih]

Originally posted by CMDR Astrox:

Are you talking about the FDL?

FDL doesnt have c3 hardpoint.

[forcecomdr]

FDS, but regardless of the ship my question would apply.

[FalterXV TTV]

If this is a dropship, i advise against a Large Multicannon, due to the spin-up time.
If your flying a dropship, id go with 2 multicannons, a gimball beam, on the large, and 2 other guns to add some variance to your loadout, where you are missing damage in some areas.

BTW, lasers do more damage at larger sizes, and will do more damage to shields, if they already inflict more damage themselves.
Just ask my G5 Large Efficient Beam i run on the dropship, when im supporting wingmates in CZs.
The damage a laser does, is entirely dependant on the resist the enemy has on their shield, and the type of laser you use.
Pulse lasers are kinda balanced, and are good at everything, but nothing.
Burst lasers, are better for defeating armour, with the 3 shot burst and higher Armour piercing value (a pulse that shoots 3X per shot) the trade off is higher heat and power draw.
Beams are awesome at defeating shielding, but have low Armour pen, and low breach chance, meaning they do negligable damage to hull. and have a hard time penetrating hull to internals, without a corrosive upgrade to help them out.

Balance your loadout, and dont feel like you need synergy on the dropship, it actually does better if you lean your guns towards the side you turn towards alot, i put my fixed multis on my left medium mounts, and the fixed Cannons on the right, the large mount is a APA usually, unless my wingates need shields.

the same idea is applied to the gunship, and the corvette
Place your guns in areas that make sense for the type of weapon they are, and how you use them, it will make hitting with them, that much easier, as even gimballs benefit from this.

[forcecomdr]

Well, what i was thinking was, shields usually aren't that tough to take down, it's actually getting modules and the hull that takes a while.

Lasers are less effective tthen mc for that purpose, so wouldn't i be better off with the larger kinetic weapon when weapon class matters against resists as opposed to shields where it doesn't?

I guess it comes down to this, am i better off with;

1 large laser to burn through shields, then 4 mc to eat hull and mods, or
4 med pl to eat shields then one larg MC to tear apart hull/mods

Bear in mind i don't have a ton of cash to burn right now, and it seems 1 mc would be cheaper to rearm then 4? Not to mention it'd probably take fewer shots to do the same dmg, meaning more uptime before rearming.

[FalterXV TTV]

Originally posted by forcecomdr:

Well, what i was thinking was, shields usually aren't that tough to take down, it's actually getting modules and the hull that takes a while.

Lasers are less effective tthen mc for that purpose, so wouldn't i be better off with the larger kinetic weapon when weapon class matters against resists as opposed to shields where it doesn't?

Weapon class DOES matter against shields, AND hull.
both have resistances, even in PvE, your enemies have resistances.
By default, a shield generator has -20% resist to thermal sources, means your lasers will do 120% damage, or 20% more damage per shot.
Whereas the kinetic resist on a shield, by defualt is +40%, means, your kinetic weaponry, does only 60% damage to the shield.

Multicannons are unique in that, repeated strikes against standard shields, prevent the regen speed from working, or, make the regen almost impossible to tell.
But, when coupled with lasers you defeat shielding rather quickly.

There are guns which EXCEL at hull bashing,
Cannons, Plasma Accelerators, and Multis are the best by default.

There are also guns which EXCEL at shield bashing,
Beams, Plasma Accelerators, Rail guns, and Frag Cannons

It really matters the type of damage dealt, and how long you can keep on target.
For instance, pure incendiary multicannon builds, excel at stripping shields, BUT, the thermal damage against bulkheads, is of little consquence, so if built for just incendiary, your multicannons struggle.
It is important to build your hardpoints to excel where you are missing damage output.
It is why the Vulture's limited hardpoints, make it very hard to use effectively-especially if you get hard countered in it.

the dropship is nice, in that it has 5 hardpoins, with 4 medium and 1 large, 2 Medium hardpoints output the damage of 1 Large, and 2 Large equate to 1 Huge.

you are much better off on a dropship with 2 multicannons on your medium mounts, due to the low spin-up, and the same rate of damage per shot, than 1 large Multi, that takes longer to get firing.

[forcecomdr]

Thanks for the replies btw.

I was thinking more about the ship size vs weapon class factor.

I.E.

Let's assume i use lasers to knock down shields and then MC to damage hull.

Any laser will do full damage vs shields. (yes the smaller ones will take longer to kill it, i know)

However against Hulls, a Med MC will do less damage then a large MC to a large ship.

Doesn't that mean it'll take more rounds per gun to do the same damage as a med MC vs a large ship is prob around -40% dmg

Also I don't have any engineers yet so don't bother mentioning the mods. = (

[Turih]

Originally posted by forcecomdr:

Thanks for the replies btw.

I was thinking more about the ship size vs weapon class factor.

I.E.

Let's assume i use lasers to knock down shields and then MC to damage hull.

Any laser will do full damage vs shields. (yes the smaller ones will take longer to kill it, i know)

However against Hulls, a Med MC will do less damage then a large MC to a large ship.

Doesn't that mean it'll take more rounds per gun to do the same damage as a med MC vs a large ship is prob around -40% dmg

Also I don't have any engineers yet so don't bother mentioning the mods. = (

You think too much.

[Ottomic]

I use burst lasers and multicans on c3 and above, rails on c2s. Multicans are very versatile for engineering purposes.

I love cannons, but unfortunately they're pretty disappointing for a bunch of reasons.

[FalterXV TTV]

Originally posted by Ottomic:

I use burst lasers and multicans on c3 and above, rails on c2s. Multicans are very versatile for engineering purposes.

I love cannons, but unfortunately they're pretty disappointing for a bunch of reasons.

I can understand the cannon thing, gimball variants are almost impossible to hit with, and you really need an eye towards fixed, by themselves, they are pretty poor as well, and are more used as a pairing weapon with other guns, in my opinion. Just like missiles.

But @OP, weapons do have an effective use relative to the ship you are firing at's relative toughness rating.
It is why Federation craft, are incredibly durable, due to their relative toughness rating. This is the number associated with how tough your hull is to breach to do internal module damage.
But raw damge to hull, is usually just that, raw damage, its why a Fed ship will die from lack of hit points, LONG before internal module failure, whereas ships like the Asp exploder or Anaconda die from internal module failure, LONG before they run out of integrity.

This is usually compensated for when modding weapons, by aiming for modifications that increaase the armour piercing of the gun.
While, i did see you dont have engineers, it is always worth mentioning the advanced mechanics of gun use, even if you just own base elite.
a combat CMDR, will usually have horizons content, and be working towards upgrading his/ her weaponry. EVEN if he is just PvE focusesd. Because past a certain point, NPCs get extremely tough to deal with, with stock builds, ask any Elite Combat CMDR.

Yes the large multi is excellent, stock, but the trade off you have from using it, is far outweighed by what you could have by using other weaponry.
I'm quite the experienced dropship CMDR, and always preffered it to its sister the FAS.

It really all depends on what you want your dropship to do, for you. IF you want it to excel at combat, scrap your notion of gimball weaponry, learn to use FA-off, fit it for combat, and engineer it.
Dont skimp on its armour either.
If your using it as a multirole, cheaper python variant, fit it with trade gear, and it wil be a cheaper alternative to the python.

But there are a vast ammout of weaponry you can use OUTSIDE of a large multicannon for huge ammounts of armour damage.
I suggest 2 guns (stock), other than the large multi-that outperform it. a Large Fragmentation Gimball, or a Large Plasma Accelerator
if you are set on the large multicannon, use a fixed variant. That way the spin up is easier to compensate for.

[forcecomdr]

Thanks for the tips.
FTR i wsn't agrueing, just making sure we were talking about the same thing hehe

I play on using it for multi roles, though i'm not opposed to swapping mods.

RES BH, trading and considering mining when i get bored.

i know that i'll have to swap cargoracks for some mining stuff if i do that, but what loadout would you suggest then for BH?

I'm not married to the large MC btw, i've always used pure engery in the past to keep costs down lol

a large laser (beam maybe) then 4 med MC?

Also what's the best sight type for mc, lead?

[FalterXV TTV]

So, i can provide a couple of suggestions for loadout configs for the dropship then, as ive used it for many things.
(I always run lead with my fixed armnaments-and i dont seem to miss a lot with my combined fixed and gimball builds i run.)

https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/federal_dropship?code=A4pktkFflkdpsff42b26261b1b04040303B13904v42bm729290d.Iw18eQ%3D%3D.Aw18eQ%3D%3D..EweloBhBGA2EoFMCGBzANokMK6A%3D&bn=dropship%20multirole%20starter

there is a good multirole variant-allows high firepower, and flexibility.
https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/federal_dropship?code=A4pktkFflkdpsff42g26262m2m04040303054a041v2bm7C0C02o.Iw18eQ%3D%3D.Aw18eQ%3D%3D..EweloBhBGA2EoFMCGBzANokMK6A%3D&bn=dropship%20miner%20starter

a good starter for mining in a dropship

https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/federal_dropship?code=A4pktkFflkdpsff4Ap2626Ph0s04040303B12d2d2b2bm7290i6b.Iw18eQ%3D%3D.Aw18eQ%3D%3D..EweloBhBGA2EoFMCGBzANokMK6A%3D&bn=dropship%20combat%20high%20end

and a high end, high skill pure combat dropship

those should give you an idea, of where you can get with it, its quite a awesome ship, not to be taken lightly, with mods, it excells EVEN more, dont build its shields, and rely on them, they are akin more so to regenerative hull.
they are there to give you an extra buffer, your drift and speed make you unpredictable and almost nigh impossilbe to hit, so learn to work with your drift, not against it.
for combat, your shields just stock, are insanely fast to recover, and your armour is there to back you up, ad-infinitum.
the whole, i get knocked down, i get up again, comes to mind.

its a powerhouse, and is more for direct sustain, rather than hit and run, thats where the FAS excells.
The dropship and gunship by that token, are sustain brawlers, they get up close and bash, then move on, always drifting around the target to stay out of line of fire.
If you are face timing in a dropship or gunship, or even corvette, you are doing something horribly wrong.

Good luck CMDR, wish you the best of luck

[Turd Ferguson]

I find large burst lasers with some mods to be quite effective...and last for ever since no ammo. For PvE anyway.

[forcecomdr]

thanks for the build tips, could you explain drifting to me a bit? I'm relativly new and tend to fly with FA on or else i end up all over the place. lol

[Nfected]

Originally posted by forcecomdr:

thanks for the build tips, could you explain drifting to me a bit? I'm relativly new and tend to fly with FA on or else i end up all over the place. lol

You basically described drifting lol

Federal ships tend to "slide" even after making hard turns. Drifting is using your momentum (and FA off ) to make sharper turns to either keep on target or flip around faster

[forcecomdr]

ah, who knew i was an elite pilot this whole time lol