About BattlEye and Privacy

[[BattlEye] $able]

(For those who are not aware, I'm the BE dev - feel free to check my post history to confirm.)


Hey ARK community,

After reading your feedback about BattlEye in general and its EULA for over a week I decided to clarify a few things here.

First of all, BattlEye by design is very invasive and it has to be so that it's able to fully do its job. This is reflected in its EULA, which is intentionally formulated in a very direct, unambiguous and non-misleading way, so the user can quickly understand what's going on and isn't lost in pages of text. Ultimately it's just trying to be very honest.

Yes, BattlEye has to be able to scan all memory (RAM) and all game- and system-related files on disk. However, this does not mean that BE is looking through your personal files, credit card details or other such information and sends them to our servers. I want to clearly emphasize that we don't do this. Everything that BE does is aimed at blocking and detecting hacks and reporting your personal information or otherwise spying on you clearly serves no purpose in that context. If you are worried I would still suggest that you don't have any programs/processes containing sensitive information open while playing on BE servers, simply because BE "might" accidentally touch it during its scans (remember that all active processes are part of the memory). That includes things like process and window names.

Yes, BattlEye absolutely can identify hack code patterns in memory and report information about them to our servers. It can also theoretically send executable files (e.g. .exe or .dll files) to our servers which were previously identified by other scans. But this is very rarely done if ever. It has happened in the past, which is what this reddit post (created by a well-known hacker) that many of you have seen was all about. It succeeded in creating lots of drama, but the bottom line is that BE never reported any sensitive information but only hack-related executable code/files. In fact, generally any halfway effective anti-cheat solution has the capability to do the same. So if you are running suspicious code while playing online games expect it to be reported in some way. I'm not saying that this is or good or bad, but it can be necessary from time to time for an anti-cheat to properly do its job.

There was also another post created by the same hacker talking about BE supposedly permanently banning players for false positives or poor detections. While I can't go into too many details without revealing too much to the bad guys, the problem with these claims is that they simply aren't true. Yes, false positives can happen and did happen in the past, but usually they were identified and corrected very quickly as all bans are regularly checked. But no, we definitely never banned for legitimate software like Mumble or memory patterns in your web browser. I could talk more about what we are doing and why, but it would probably slightly spoil the "fun" those people constantly have when being forced to deal with BE. :)

That being said, I admit that there should be more clarifications in the EULA and/or the BE Launcher and this is something that will be added in the future. We want people to trust BE because we believe that it is a trustable system that is working in the interest of honest players. We will also add an uninstall option as well as a way to make BE not annoy you every single time (when using the default launch option) in case you don't want to install it. :) The BE Launcher in general should become more user-friendly.

We hear your concerns and are really sorry about this bumpy release.

Thanks for reading! :)


Addendum:
BattlEye is neither like a virus, rootkit or gets into your system without noticing. These are false claims that are mostly coming from hackers trying to give BE a bad name (like those reddit posts which contain more exaggerations and lies than truth). BE explicitly asks you before installing. It also only runs while the game is running (with BE enabled), so technically there isn't any need to really uninstall it, although we will provide that in the future. Currently you can uninstall it simply by running "sc delete BEService" in a command prompt with administrative privileges.


Update - March 5:
As promised, the BE Launcher and EULA have now been updated and an uninstall option has been added to Steam.

[[BattlEye] $able]

Originally posted by GobboKirk:

Critics are great, but some of kinda just leans towards the tinfoil collection.
But yeah any softward/company can improve so input is good.
Taking the time to answer them should calm some down, unless it's part of your evil plan for world domination ofc, in that case: EEEEK :)

Actually there is such a plan, why do you think I have an eye as picture and it's called BattlEYE? You know, illuminati and such... :D

(Before anyone comes in and states that this is unprofessional to say - please, it's just meant as a joke, nothing else!)

[GobboKirk]

Originally posted by BattlEye $able:

Originally posted by GobboKirk:

Critics are great, but some of kinda just leans towards the tinfoil collection.
But yeah any softward/company can improve so input is good.
Taking the time to answer them should calm some down, unless it's part of your evil plan for world domination ofc, in that case: EEEEK :)

Actually there is such a plan, why do you think I have an eye as picture and it's called BattlEYE? You know, illuminati and such... :D

2xEEEK :)

[GobboKirk]

Originally posted by Normalement:

Originally posted by BattlEye $able:

We don't, I explained that before.

I don't understand. Maybe you don't violate german laws, but BattleEye does.

Wouldn't you think the lawyers already checked that out?
Sure you can always check a 2nd opinion and I am not pretending to know much about german privacy laws, but if it did it would be shut down.

[WanderingFreely]

Why do we have to instll thia malware suddenyl to play this game now? That is a bait and switch, this malware was not part of the software when purchased and now all of a sudden this up to now GREAT game requires a piece of malware to play for users that have purchased the game. Comments I have seen in this thread about pirates and how this is good to combat pirates obviously knows not a lot about security. These type of software only punish the actual paid users and do not prevent any but the script kiddies crackers. I now wish I had not purchased this game, since I can no longer play it (which may have been the goal of the developers...easy money. Release great game, then many months into selling and developing the game add malware which is objectionable to honest purchasers of the game). I'm not using words like bait and switch randomly that is EXACTLY what this is. Guess I need to change my recommendation from GREAT game to GREAT game but contains/requires a third party malware to be installed to computer to play the game.

To calrify my statement on calling this malware, My IDS system and AV system called it questionable software and possible malware. Placed it in a 'sandbox' I use to determine what malware does looks to be a data farming software of some sort. Guess it's time to un-install ARK and make a note about this developer never to purchase their software again until it's out of pre-release and is ready for public. Not sure if the developers plan on selling the data that BE will be collecting or not, but not worth it for me and my data's safety/

[Acandri]

Originally posted by Normalement:

Originally posted by BattlEye $able:

Can you explain why it's illegal?

Yes, it installs a service, but the service is not running unless the game is active.

BattleEye violates privacy laws in germany. If enough people would report BattleEye to the Data Protection Authority, they (BE) would need to close their offices very fast I think.

you are a little wrong with this.
BE does not violates privacy laws in germany.

BUT the use of CHEATS violates laws in germany (small excerpt):

Das OLG Hamburg stellte in seinem Urteil vom 13.04.2012 (Az.: 5 U 11/11) fest, dass im Arbeitsspeicher ausgeführte Cheat-Software eine Urheberrechtsverletzung darstellt. Nach Ansicht der Richter stelle die Funktion der Software ein sonstige Umarbeitung gemäß §69c Nr.2 UrhG dar. Eine sonstige Umarbeitung ist eine zustimmungsbedürftige Handlung. Ohne Zustimmung des Urhebers handelt der Nutzer der Cheat-Software rechtswidrig. Im vorliegenden Fall ging es um eine Cheat-Software, die auf einem Speicherstick für die Playstation Portable genutzt wird. Im Arbeitsspeicher ausgeführt, ermöglicht diese so Cheats für Spiele. Es sei dabei unerheblich, dass die Cheat-Software den Programmcode unangetastet lässt und nur laufende Routinen verändert.

BE is a very effective way to battle cheaters (even used at esports events) and as such, many cheaters get over themselfs to denigrate BE.

[Yanozha]

BE is nothing more than data farming garbage plain and simple

[Acandri]

Originally posted by Yano:

BE is nothing more than data farming garbage plain and simple

same goes for windows, ie, firefox, chrome, steam, gog, uplay, google, twitter, facebook, whatsapp, .............

[tanek]

Originally posted by thegamekitten:

Originally posted by BattlEye $able:

Could you provide a source with proof for that?

Sure, I'll bite. I'll ask him when he gets home tonight. If he answers great. If he doesn't I rather trust a true tech than someone I do not know with a shifty Eula.

Have a great day!

If he doesn't answer, can you let us know the reason? I see many claims on the forums, many stories, many "I heard from...", but I don't ever see the evidence or details.

I have looked into BattlEye, too, and I have my concerns. But the concerns are the same that I have for Windows, for my ISP, for my antivirus software, for other games (and Steam itself), so I follow the same guidelines I use there.

At this point, I have seen nothing that makes me trust BE any less than other software on my computer. And, logically, I see no reason BE would want to risk their business by lying to us about this. Someone would find out. If you are that someone, then it makes no sense at all to keep that information private.

Until then, I am going to keep an eye on the Eye, but I am not going to base my decisions on rumors.

Thank you.

[Scooby Doo]

Originally posted by Normalement:

BattleEye installs a Service in Windows. You need to delete this Service and delete any files created by BattleEye to be "clean" in any way from this totally illegal AntiCheat-Software (it's a german software AND in germany it's illegal! - totally stupid).

I just cleaned up my whole system from this software. Also my server is clean now.

Well you know what I am not in Germany and so German law really does not concern me. To those who make decisions please continue to do what is needed to keep guys like this one very unhappy. Hackers never like a good Anti Hack program. I have played with BE for years over on the Arma series. This software is great for keeping the hacks out. Only the Hackers and their Fanboys (I think that is the term I seek) speak out against Anti Hack. I have BE for Arma, Ark, and H1Z1 have no issues with my computer. Even my Anti Virus on my computer has no issues with BE and has never reported a false positive. That there tells me that some people either have no understanding for computers or they are associated with Hackers and Cheaters. I am not pointing any fingers past he I am quoting.

[MADxHAWK [GER]]

BattleEye verletzt also nicht das Datenschutzgesetz?

Das musst du mir mal genauer erklären.
Also Webseitenbetreiber (vor allem gewerbliche) wurden für Facebook-Like Plugins abgemahnt, weil das Plugin die IP und andere Daten an dritte (Facebook) überträgt (zudem noch an Server ausserhalb Deutschlands/ der EU) ohne den Besucher zu informieren und ohne nach einer Zustimmung zu fragen.

Anti-Spam-Plugins für Webseiten, die Blacklisten nutzen sind soweit datenschutzrechtlich bedenklich, das die Entwickler von der Nutzung des Blacklist-abgleichs innerhalb der EU abraten, da dies Plugins die IP-Adresse des Besuchers unverschlüsselt und ungekürzt an den Blacklist-Server übertragen (ja die IP wird trotz gegenteiliger Aussage von BattleEye $able) als private Daten angesehen.
Die Nutzung von google Analytics ist auch nicht gerade ohne rechtliche gefahren.

Aber eine Software, die auf Kernelbasis läuft, die Zugriff auf den gesamten Arbeitspeicher und die Festplatte hat, die Daten übertragen kann, und dies aut ggf. tut, die darf Daten an einen (oder mehrere) Server, ggf. im Ausland, übermitteln ohne den User über die Art und Umfang zu informieren und ohne die Zustimmung einzuholen?
Eine Software, die dem Unternehmen oder Hackern(die sich illegal zugang verschaffen) den vollständigen Zugriff auf den Rechner bietet ohne jede Kontrolle, was da im Hintergrund passiert, und das von einem Unternehmen, das JEGLICHE Verantwortung für eventuelle Schäden durch ihre Software ausschließt?

Zudem heisst es in einem Rechtsstaat unschuldig bis die schuld bewiesen. Die beweislast läge also normal bei BattleEye. Die ziehen sich mit der EULA jedoch aus der Afähre und beschränken sich auf ein "Der ban ist zurecht", womit du keine Chance hast deine Unschuld zu Beweisen.
"Sie sind zu schnell gefahren, wir ziehen ihren Führerschein ein. Wann und wo?
Dürfen wir ihnen nicht sagen, ihren Führerschein bitte..."

Zudem wenn du in Spiel A gecheatet hast, wage ich zu bezweifeln das ein globaler ban, also auch für Spiel B, C, D,... sich mit dem deutschen Verbraucherschutzgesetz vereinbaren lässt.
Wobei permanente Bans verbraucherschutzrechtlich eh schon fraglich sind da
1. CD-Keys gestohlen oder per Key-gen zufällig generiert werden können
2. Accounts gehackt werden können
3. False Positives möglich (kein System ist 100%tig failsafe) sind (auch bei Überprüfung durch Mitarbeiter)

Auch wenn ich grundsätzlich gegen cheats bin und cheater es auch verdient haben muss man auch immer sehen das es unschuldige erwischen kann und tun wird, egal was die Betreiber sagen. Und unschuldig ist in dem Fall auch derjenige, dessen Account / Cd-Key gehackt wurde, denn auch davor gibt es keinen 100%tigen Schutz.

[WanderingFreely]

Originally posted by Dawg711:

Originally posted by Normalement:

BattleEye installs a Service in Windows. You need to delete this Service and delete any files created by BattleEye to be "clean" in any way from this totally illegal AntiCheat-Software (it's a german software AND in germany it's illegal! - totally stupid).

I just cleaned up my whole system from this software. Also my server is clean now.

Well you know what I am not in Germany and so German law really does not concern me. To those who make decisions please continue to do what is needed to keep guys like this one very unhappy. Hackers never like a good Anti Hack program. I have played with BE for years over on the Arma series. This software is great for keeping the hacks out. Only the Hackers and their Fanboys (I think that is the term I seek) speak out against Anti Hack. I have BE for Arma, Ark, and H1Z1 have no issues with my computer. Even my Anti Virus on my computer has no issues with BE and has never reported a false positive. That there tells me that some people either have no understanding for computers or they are associated with Hackers and Cheaters. I am not pointing any fingers past he I am quoting.

LOL....wow talk about a FANBOY, sorry these softwares are good for stopping a few script kiddies at most. As a security professional for over 20 years and certified ethical hacker, I'm certainly no fanboy of the illegal actions of many of these idiots who crack games, but I am VEHEMENTLY against STUPID software which only targets and prevents paid/legal users from using software like the Sony DRM 10+ years ago and this BE software. Sorry when my IDS and AV system both label the software as malicious I take it as so. You may be a fanboy of this type of software, but it is the lowest and least effective form of anti-hacking and shows the quality of the developer and software in my opinion.

No biggy to me in any case...so long as this malware is attached I delete the game and like I stated in previous post, I view this as a learning experience with this developer. Not looking for money back in any way enjoyed the game prior to it containing this malware so got my moneys worth while it was playable.

[WanderingFreely]

Originally posted by BattlEye $able:

(For those who are not aware, I'm the BE dev - feel free to check my post history to confirm.)


Hey ARK community,

After reading your feedback about BattlEye in general and its EULA for over a week I decided to clarify a few things here.

First of all, BattlEye by design is very invasive and it has to be so that it's able to fully do its job. This is reflected in its EULA, which is intentionally formulated in a very direct, unambiguous and non-misleading way, so the user can quickly understand what's going on and isn't lost in pages of text. Ultimately it's just trying to be very honest.

Yes, BattlEye has to be able to scan all memory (RAM) and all game- and system-related files on disk. However, this does not mean that BE is looking through your personal files, credit card details or other such information and sends them to our servers. I want to clearly emphasize that we don't do this. Everything that BE does is aimed at blocking and detecting hacks and reporting your personal information or otherwise spying on you clearly serves no purpose in that context. If you are worried I would still suggest that you don't have any programs/processes containing sensitive information open while playing on BE servers, simply because BE "might" accidentally touch it during its scans (remember that all active processes are part of the memory). That includes things like process and window names.

Yes, BattlEye absolutely can identify hack code patterns in memory and report information about them to our servers. It can also theoretically send executable files (e.g. .exe or .dll files) to our servers which were previously identified by other scans. But this is very rarely done if ever. It has happened in the past, which is what this reddit post (created by a well-known hacker) that many of you have seen was all about. It succeeded in creating lots of drama, but the bottom line is that BE never reported any sensitive information but only hack-related executable code/files. In fact, generally any halfway effective anti-cheat solution has the capability to do the same. So if you are running suspicious code while playing online games expect it to be reported in some way. I'm not saying that this is or good or bad, but it can be necessary from time to time for an anti-cheat to properly do its job.

There was also another post created by the same hacker talking about BE supposedly permanently banning players for false positives or poor detections. While I can't go into too many details without revealing too much to the bad guys, the problem with these claims is that they simply aren't true. Yes, false positives can happen and did happen in the past, but usually they were identified and corrected very quickly as all bans are regularly checked. But no, we definitely never banned for legitimate software like Mumble or memory patterns in your web browser. I could talk more about what we are doing and why, but it would probably slightly spoil the "fun" those people constantly have when being forced to deal with BE. :)

That being said, I admit that there should be more clarifications in the EULA and/or the BE Launcher and this is something that will be added in the future. We want people to trust BE because we believe that it is a trustable system that is working in the interest of honest players. We will also add an uninstall option as well as a way to make BE not annoy you every single time (when using the default launch option) in case you don't want to install it. :) The BE Launcher in general should become more user-friendly.

We hear your concerns and are really sorry about this bumpy release.

Thanks for reading! :)


Addendum:
BattlEye is neither like a virus, rootkit or gets into your system without noticing. These claims are all coming from hackers trying to give BE a bad name (like those reddit posts which contain more exaggerations and lies than truth). BE explicitly asks you before installing. It also only runs while the game is running (with BE enabled), so technically there isn't any need to really uninstall it, although we will provide that in the future. Currently you can uninstall it simply by running "sc delete BEService" in a command prompt with administrative privileges.

TThanks for this update. I do think the addendum says it all. If your computer that this is being installed in is used for anything other than gaming you as the end user get to make the decision for yourself whether the possibiltiy this software can be used in the future to grab any of your personal data on your computer with a small software change after you agree to the EUL. If you are comfortable with that great. As a infosec professional of 20+ years experience after seening the invasive nature of the sotware as described above, I personally am not. I still feel very misused by this addition of this type of software after I paid money for a game, but early access games are a risk at all times this was one of the best I have paid for until this debacle. Really disturbing to me is that as a payer that just played locally I am no longer able to play this game because of a 'malware' designed to scan memory that has more than a possibility of grabbing my personal data on the computer I play games on. This decision by ARK appears to be geared toward the multiplayer portions of the game and affects/prevents users of the local parts of the game. Not rich enough here to purchase a dedicated gaming machine unfortunately just to play this game. May look at building out a VM in future but for now game deleted. I got decent use and enjoyment out of it while it was still playable so not complaining in that regard was worth the money with hours in til this point, just a very disappointing decision to me. Sorry last comment I will make on this topic and thanks to the developer on explaining themselves.

[Scooby Doo]

Originally posted by WanderingFreely:

Originally posted by Dawg711:

Well you know what I am not in Germany and so German law really does not concern me. To those who make decisions please continue to do what is needed to keep guys like this one very unhappy. Hackers never like a good Anti Hack program. I have played with BE for years over on the Arma series. This software is great for keeping the hacks out. Only the Hackers and their Fanboys (I think that is the term I seek) speak out against Anti Hack. I have BE for Arma, Ark, and H1Z1 have no issues with my computer. Even my Anti Virus on my computer has no issues with BE and has never reported a false positive. That there tells me that some people either have no understanding for computers or they are associated with Hackers and Cheaters. I am not pointing any fingers past he I am quoting.

LOL....wow talk about a FANBOY, sorry these softwares are good for stopping a few script kiddies at most. As a security professional for over 20 years and certified ethical hacker, I'm certainly no fanboy of the illegal actions of many of these idiots who crack games, but I am VEHEMENTLY against STUPID software which only targets and prevents paid/legal users from using software like the Sony DRM 10+ years ago and this BE software. Sorry when my IDS and AV system both label the software as malicious I take it as so. You may be a fanboy of this type of software, but it is the lowest and least effective form of anti-hacking and shows the quality of the developer and software in my opinion.

No biggy to me in any case...so long as this malware is attached I delete the game and like I stated in previous post, I view this as a learning experience with this developer. Not looking for money back in any way enjoyed the game prior to it containing this malware so got my moneys worth while it was playable.

Ok so you claim it to be Maleware and malicious but yet one game series that I know of for a fact has used it for years. No one with that game is crying about it. How do you explain that? Just because you are a security professional does not mean you are any good at your job. I dont know you and as such I take little of what you say as truth. I however dont want anyone to take my words. Go over to Arma and see for yourself people what the BE software does for them. Lets work to keep hackers and cheaters out of our games. Those that want to be butt hurt by the move....sucks to be you.
For those thinking about buying this game I say to you. Simply look at the good the program has done elsewhere. I am neither a employee or fanboy of BE. I just simply state my experience with the software. Also my experience can be verified. Dont let a few bad apples cloud your judgement. Pay no attention to claims of it violating laws in countries around the world. This company is well known. They are not new to the picture. Ark is a really good game with Dev that really do work hard to do things right. At one point servers were full of bullies and cheaters. Based on numbers that are on here crying I would say the bullies and cheaters are done with the game. To that I say WOO HOO!!

[Vince]

*yawn* ....

tell us more about cgi ... off course ... but wich one amongst the list ...

btw happy reading ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CGI

well ... pick one and roll the dice ...

[kotawolf]

Originally posted by WanderingFreely:

LOL....wow talk about a FANBOY, sorry these softwares are good for stopping a few script kiddies at most. As a security professional for over 20 years and certified ethical hacker, I'm certainly no fanboy of the illegal actions of many of these idiots who crack games, but I am VEHEMENTLY against STUPID software which only targets and prevents paid/legal users from using software like the Sony DRM 10+ years ago and this BE software. Sorry when my IDS and AV system both label the software as malicious I take it as so. You may be a fanboy of this type of software, but it is the lowest and least effective form of anti-hacking and shows the quality of the developer and software in my opinion.

No biggy to me in any case...so long as this malware is attached I delete the game and like I stated in previous post, I view this as a learning experience with this developer. Not looking for money back in any way enjoyed the game prior to it containing this malware so got my moneys worth while it was playable.

Certified Ethical Hacker? No such thing.
So, you are against software that stops people cheating in online game.
You also are against the stupidity of DRM. That I can completely agree with. Blizzard and others are getting to the point where I won't buy their software anymore. I don't want/need to be online to play Diablo and such if I am playing single player.

IF this is the "least effective form of anti-hacking" software, then you should start recommending ones that are better. Just my opinion.

Something needed to be done, this was a good start. And has worked, most of the cheat sites are no longer selling the cheats/hacks, because BE stops them.