Have Spinos become the best option underwater?

[Cute Beaver]

Straight up, I don't play on a PVP server anymore so this question is aimed towards those who do play on PVP servers. (PVE input is also welcome to the discussion.) Personally I am finding it harder and harder to justify my usage of Sharks amoung friends who currently prefer the Spino. The ability for the Spino to regenrate Stamina while swimming is a huge bonus and its higher health and damage output mean very few undersea threats challenge its dominance. In contrast my Mega seems more hit and run regarding larger sea creatures. She simply cannot hold the line in the same manner as a Spino can. I find the only benefit I have over the Spino is turn radius now, but this perk is not very much to brag about. Sure the shark has no oxygen to worry about per-say but the spinos air supply is incredbly generous especially with chowder.

My other perfered creature is the Beaver. She hits pretty hard and I am able to take her into underwater caves and airpockets. Beaver is more of a utility creature in my eyes. However I think it might add a little to the discussion because prior to the change I couldn't take her deep sea diving for pearls or oil, and now I can easily do this. While a Beaver is surely not aiming for top spot in the undersea ecosystem its interesting how much the game changed in that one patch.

Community Feedback:

Question #1) How significantly has the change of dinos following players underwater (and not bobing up to the surface) shifted the underwater meta in your eyes?

Question #2) If you also do not use a spino - What is your favorite underwater buddy and why?

Question #3) What - if anything would you do to make underwater gameplay or balancing more interesting?

[G+]

(Question #2) Though probably the worst underwater mount, I actually prefer the beezlebufo over anything, mainly due to versatility on both sea and land. Sure, it's squishy and lacks an underwater attack, but it is basically a swiss army knife and one of the easiest tames in the game next to ichty, ptera, etc., and although beaver dams put off its only purpose, it is still the perfect mount for a one-dino player.

[GodKingMuninn]

I prefer a scorpion for underwater, nice torpor on hit with it, very high armor... it's just slow.

[🦊 Hermit]

I play solely PvE with friends on a private server, so I dunno how useful my feedback would be, but speaking from my experience -

Megalodons are pretty much useless at the moment. They have relatively weak attacks, not particularly fast, and are very squishy compared to some of the mobs out there. If they come up against tougher mobs like a mosa or (worst of all) a manta swarm, you'll be losing your ride pretty fast. Until the devs do some major balancing work underwater I've learned not to bother with the sharks.

And on the topic of balance, mantas are just op as anything. Very weak health, but their attack is way over the top, and as they usually travel in packs of 4 or more they can strip weaker mounts of their health in mere seconds. Mantas need a huge nerf asap.

On a more general note: I've always had difficulty going underwater, and for a long time all my experiences trying to do so ended up in my being eaten alive. So a month or so ago I asked on this forum for some tips of how to get a foothold in the ocean, and one post in particular in that thread was very informative for me. It listed a large selection of the underwater mounts and their pros/cons, and after some testing I have found that feedback to be broadly true, so I'll repeat it here.

The first recommendation, surprisingly for me, was to go for sarco as my first underwater mount. But after trying it I see why - the thing is absolutely terrible for attacks, but it is perhaps the fastest swimmer in the whole of ark, has a large HP pool so can take some hits, and can easily pop out onto land if the sea is getting too rough. Also it doesn't float to the surface when getting off, and you can eat and check your map while riding on it's back. It's speed allows for a good 'hit and run' strategy with the crossbow, swim away a small distance, then jump off and fire, then jump back on and move away again.

The next recommendation was to then go for a plessie, which I also tried, and this too has worked out well for me. It too is extremely fast, almost as much as the sarco, but has an added bonus of being even more tanky and much, much better at attacking. Now with +800% in melee damage my plessie can one-shot almost any manta or angler it comes across, and most sharks go down in just a few bites...the only difficulty is aiming those attacks with such a long neck, which takes a little practice but is relatively easy once you get the hang of it.

Then of course there's the mosa - I haven't tried that as much myself as the first mosa we tamed on my server went to my friend (since I already had the plessie), but from what I've seen when we've been out hunting together that too is super amazing. Not nearly as fast as my mount, but incredible in attack power and able to tank hits for days. Certainly a plesse/mosa combo is by far the best setup for underwater I've seen so far.

On the topic of spinos - I haven't really tried them underwater, although I did notice just the other day when taking mine out (on that same server mentioned above) that with a few levels in speed it can be a very fast swimmer. Does it not swim up to the surface when the rider dismounts though? I thought every dino that had to breathe air did so, and it was only the ones without air stats that could remain in place underwater. Could be wrong about that though. Perhaps I'll have to experiment with water spinos a little more.

Beaver can also be quick in water I know, but I've always thought of that as a utillity mount as well, and while it's attacks are pretty powerful it's also very squishy against some hard-hitters like rexes, so I don't know that it'd stand up to the jaws of a mosa all that well...

[Cute Beaver]

You can now set creatures to follow you, and they remain at your side and will no longer bob to the surface. In changing this, some drawbacks to semi-aquatics were removed that existed prior and now we have a bunch of new possibilities to explore / exploit lol.

For my shark setups I have two different builds that seem to be working. One for transport and finding underwater lv 80 chests. Scout shark is fast without too much invested in health. This build really feels like a dolphin at times just a little more bitey so when I do find a drop I can clear it of angler fish nearby.

The other build in contrast is much slower (and probably my favorite at this point) has a moderate amount of health and heavily invested into bite damage with a decent grade saddle for defense. Saddles important and until you get a decent one the scout shark seems to be the way to go. Like a mini tank she handles the packs of rays with ease. Just basically chewing through them. My friend has also modified our server to make our dinos slightly less leathal against wild ones to keep things interesting for us in a PVE setting and encourage us to train what we own.

The only time I stuggle with the DPS / shark is during packs of Nessie, I can take down 1-2 but then shes injured below 50%. Its unsettling. My friends Spino on the other hand would handle that same situation without much fuss.

For what its worth:

I also tried a high health, purely tanky shark, and that just didn't work well because he could not inflict enough damage releative to what he was fighting. Its like watching someone struggle through a bad subject in school and get passed for sheer effort alone. Which is why I am favoring the higher bite damage method paired with player positioning to maintain effectiveness and prevent frivilous health loss. In PvP that may not be viable as with any FPS standing still (even if your holding the line chewing down and out DPSing something) is a big no no. I wager in PvP this may not work because the rider could get shot?

[Caddy]

I like ankylos underwater. A shame they dont stay under while i collect pearls... Hard hitting, hight armor, nice speed.

[Gravetech(Kane)]

Originally posted by Caddy:

I like ankylos underwater. A shame they dont stay under while i collect pearls... Hard hitting, hight armor, nice speed.

befor the stat nerph i had a 700 oxi one was a tottal wasted stat but made oil diving kinda obscene even more so when it was able to oneshot oil rocks.

[Idiocide]

I pretty much stay out of the water. The water is basically like if you removed all the herbivores, and all of the agressive carnivores could fly, and it was perpetually dark/foggy. Other than the high level loot crates, there isnt anything down there I would want or need that I cant just get up on land. I guess the challenge could be fun, but for me the incentive just isnt there.

[Cute Beaver]

LOL Achillean, thats a pretty good description. I do it for the challenge and stimulation of having to be alert. To me its absolutely beautiful in the deep ocean. I love the center map and how the designer has created the arches and undersea mini caves in the trenches. Although still feels like the ocean could use more development. Being in the sea keeps my interest by forcing me to always looking around for a possible threat and it feels faster pace.

Currently1000 oxygen spec I don't even need an air tank although its prob massive overkill once you get flippers to have that much. I don't always use flippers though - especially when with friends. The excessive swim speed comes in handy for adventures since I can hook my friends with my crossbow and quickly drag them through underwater passages in caves, or rescue tribe mates and their dinos when they DC in water or crossing water. Kite pirannas or sharks and rays so they can cross dangerous waters unharmed ect.

TBH at 1000 oxy + flippers your pretty much a human dolphin. You would not even need a shark for oil collection as long as you have enough stamina. About the only thing I can think you would be missing out on by avoiding the deep ocean would be Black Pearls. The loot chests require a lot of swimming around the map to find. Sometimes we get good stuff, and other times its kinda meh.

I do feel like there is a distinct lack of something to be earned down in the depths though. Not just the depths but the ocean in general. Call me crazy but you would think we could harvest some of the sea plantlife for medicines or recipes. That would be cool going down and collecting kelp or coral from deep sea reefs.

I really love the Angler Gel idea of a valuable fuel resource being collected by mass murdering swarms of adorable plumpy fish. We need more incentives and diversity like that. When the game first arrived on early access oil was much harder to obtain and diving was something much more necessary then now. Everything in the ocean seems to be centered around oil, but oil isn't as in demand as what it used to be. Relating back to Spinos - as my friend said why dive at all when I can collect as much from Trillos using my spinos in the shallows. He has a point and to rub it in the spino is very capable of deep sea exploration as well with the new changes*

TLDR : Ocean needs more loot and things.

Id like to see :

- Deadly jellyfish schools (A creature that can harvest a resource from them safely.)
EDIT: (Apparently Jellyfish are being added - Missed that annoucement)
- Collect large seashells for something - maybe colored glass?
- Collect large (rare) deep sea clams and a single black pearl inside.
- Ability to mine coral
- Ability to gather kelp
- Ability to collect "scales" off certain types of sealife.
- Aquatic combat gear based on the new scales.
- Rebalance of sea creatures based on meat, scales, or chiten, oil collection.

[primobrainlet]

Personally, my faviorate mount would have to be the sarcho. It has both land and sea capabilities, does decent damage, is the god of shallow waters and beaches, and can take on most small-medium sized things. It used to be angler, but then the manta swarm nation attacked. Also i once got a stone pick from a loot crate down there cute beaver

[Kraken:1]

I would have to say yes, in fact I'm breeding a Spino at the moment, the child of two 150's who with the improved stats and imprinting bonus I'm expecting to be an absolute beast underwater that I'll have no problem taking up against the massed hoardes of Mantas and Dunkles (his father already pretty much wrecks everything, and thanks to the imprinting the baby already has a better melee and health even after a shed load of levelling) so he'll do me very nicely until the Mosa spawns get sorted, and even then with the ability to keep my spinos in an under water bubble, I may not even bother with a Mosa as I really don't like the way they swim, although I may grab a good plesi just for the platform saddle. The only downside, is that Spinos can't really tote much weight, and fill up really quickly on fish meat. On our server with double gathering rates I can easily pull in between 150 and 200 fish meat per manta and shark with the father, and being slowed down by a quick glut can be deadly.

[axenation]

Originally posted by NagaShocki:

I prefer a scorpion for underwater, nice torpor on hit with it, very high armor... it's just slow.

Put 1k oxygen into it and it won't be slow at all. Prior to the stat nerf they were OP underwater and could easily be used to knock out meglos, plesios, and even mosas .. since they stat nerf they're only good for their mobility underwater :(

[AD33L]

Originally posted by lonemushroom:

Personally, my faviorate mount would have to be the sarcho. It has both land and sea capabilities, does decent damage, is the god of shallow waters and beaches, and can take on most small-medium sized things. It used to be angler, but then the manta swarm nation attacked. Also i once got a stone pick from a loot crate down there cute beaver

I used sarco a few times under water. His following AI is the worst! He just keeps swimming circles around you, can get pretty annoying.

[Kraken:1]

Originally posted by adilliosz:

Originally posted by lonemushroom:

Personally, my faviorate mount would have to be the sarcho. It has both land and sea capabilities, does decent damage, is the god of shallow waters and beaches, and can take on most small-medium sized things. It used to be angler, but then the manta swarm nation attacked. Also i once got a stone pick from a loot crate down there cute beaver

I used sarco a few times under water. His following AI is the worst! He just keeps swimming circles around you, can get pretty annoying.

Sarcos are only really good for fast water transport and scouting imo. Better than an Ichthy because of unlimited stamina while swimming and of course being able to go onto land, and the ability to use spyglass, but for fighting forget it. Their speed and turning radius makes it near impossible to line up attacks, and when you do, they attack so slowly and with such a limited area and lack of oomph you'll wish you hadn't bothered. Saying that I have a pair of kibble tamed 150's (amazing what can happen when you randomly grab things when flying over the swamps with a Quetz!) and I'm quite keen to breed some offspring to see what can be done with some imprint boosted Sarcos, because I do quite like them. I'd like them more if they weren't pretty rubbish.

[trindynasty]

Originally posted by Hermit:

Then of course there's the mosa - I haven't tried that as much myself as the first mosa we tamed on my server went to my friend (since I already had the plessie), but from what I've seen when we've been out hunting together that too is super amazing. Not nearly as fast as my mount, but incredible in attack power and able to tank hits for days. Certainly a plesse/mosa combo is by far the best setup for underwater I've seen so far.

On the topic of spinos - I haven't really tried them underwater, although I did notice just the other day when taking mine out (on that same server mentioned above) that with a few levels in speed it can be a very fast swimmer. Does it not swim up to the surface when the rider dismounts though? I thought every dino that had to breathe air did so, and it was only the ones without air stats that could remain in place underwater. Could be wrong about that though. Perhaps I'll have to experiment with water spinos a little more.

Spino don't need speed to swim fast, the more oxy they have the faster they swim. IMO since i've play on official primtive hardcore pvp since release; I find spino must useful then any others dino(land dino). Recently patch and change even make spino more deadly due to the fact that they can follow you in the ocean after dismount; they stay put if set on follow and not skyrock to the surface like it use too.

And ofc Stam regen is a huge bonus since you can kill any land dino (even giga) if lurk into the ocean and dive in just underneath the giga, same as for any alpha but not Trex alpha. Alpha raptor/carno are easy to kill since they can't climb on a high rock where spino can reach and bite them while they can't, thats also a huge bonus while other dino can't do that beside Quetz.

IMO, Mosa are the best to use and farm things and sure they're hard to turn and the radius for turning to atk something it's very bad but hey, mosa have a huge aoe just like giga so all u have to do is just stay put and let other come to you and just bite them, it's one of the best way. Pleis isn't worth getting it but they're fast travel tahts the only reason for plei since we have both mosa/plei but find mosa more useful then plei and we dont' know what to do with plei beside use it to travel for fun lol.

overall, Spino are the best land/sea if you tame a high lvl spino and breed them to get better stats. Ours spino was 120/116 and they're now 210/218 and b4 dino nerf, they both have 30k HP 1.2k dmg now they're at 7.4k/6.7k HP and both dmg around 350%.

GL hunting ;) and as a bonus here a screenshot taht I've solo killing alpha mosa lvl 16.
http://steamcommunity.com/app/346110/discussions/0/358417461599645284/

[AD33L]

Originally posted by The Daemon Kraken:

Originally posted by adilliosz:

I used sarco a few times under water. His following AI is the worst! He just keeps swimming circles around you, can get pretty annoying.

Sarcos are only really good for fast water transport and scouting imo. Better than an Ichthy because of unlimited stamina while swimming and of course being able to go onto land, and the ability to use spyglass, but for fighting forget it. Their speed and turning radius makes it near impossible to line up attacks, and when you do, they attack so slowly and with such a limited area and lack of oomph you'll wish you hadn't bothered. Saying that I have a pair of kibble tamed 150's (amazing what can happen when you randomly grab things when flying over the swamps with a Quetz!) and I'm quite keen to breed some offspring to see what can be done with some imprint boosted Sarcos, because I do quite like them. I'd like them more if they weren't pretty rubbish.

Im case you didnt know, you can use spyglass and GPS while riding an ichty/shark too. How? Equip gps or spyglass before mounting, and when you mount the dino press Q. When someone told me this it made my treasure hunting sarco obsolete.