Let's Talk Leedsichthys and Rafts

[🦊 Hermit]

Ok, this topic has been somewhat lost in the chaos over the flyer nerf, however now that things are calming down a little perhaps it's time to address another of the elephants in the room. Or in this case, the whale in the sea.

I do like the idea of the raft having some kind of threat, something which has the chance of causing you some pain and risk for using one. I don't object to that concept at all. However as with a number of dinos that have been added of late, it's initial concept seems to me to be a little overpowered. So this discussion is to give the team a bit of feedback about the leedsichthys, and what could be done to improve it.

Please try to keep all comments constructive.

I haven't fully tested out the raft destruction aspect myself yet, however I have seen how fast the whale is when chasing a raft - I know there is no escape from one once it has you in it's sights. I've also heard from others who have done tests that there is no real defense against it...any structure built below the raft to try and block the thing from getting to it is ignored, and the leedsichthys can phase right through it to attack the boat itself, even if the raft is stationary with nobody at the helm.

It's this inevitabillity, this lack of any recourse at all, which rather annoys me about this game mechanic. I don't mind having the danger there, but I would like some kind of way to protect or defend against said danger, even if that protection costs a lot of resources to acchive. And said protection would have to be available in the lower-medium tier of the game, because once a tribe get higher level tames their use of rafts tends to be superceeded by dinos so rafts are an early game tool.

So what options could we have to balance the mechanic a little better? One option could simply be removing the abillity of the leedy to ignore underwater structures surrounding a raft. If the thing had to break through a number of pillars and walls before it was able to damage the raft behind, it would give a little bit of extra time for the raft occupants to make their way into shallow water where they would be able to escape the thing. I don't even mind if the leedy was given the abillity to damage stone (although at a reduced rate to the dunkie), so long as wood or stone structures were able to slow down it's advance on a raft ever so slightly.

Another option is some kind of construction or item that acts as a 'whale repellant' for a limited time, kinda like the bug repellant for spiders. One can activate it on a raft, and it gives temporary immunity to the leedy's vision or attacks, although if it runs out while you're on the open water and you don't have more available, you'll be sunk quickly. Again, I don't mind if such an item cost a lot to produce, so long as it was available in the early-midgame, not a tek item.

Does anybody else have any other ideas on this matter? Discuss.

[Aquachad]

I do agree that there should be a better tier of boat to abtain, say around lvl 70 to 80ish that has more resistance and about 3 to 4x more health

[HawthornThistleberry]

Początkowo opublikowane przez The Pretty Good Jaggi:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Nyaore:

^ If nothing else this whole Leeds issue and subsequent nerf proves this. I'd kill for a speed boat or just a proper galleon.

I was even looking forward to making a giant battleship.

You have to know at this point that Wildcard will give us anything... but tie it to some Tek grind that only a small percentage of players can ever hope to do, and only then with the investment of ungodly numbers of hours. At this point I think I have to assume that I already have everything they're ever going to give us since they're going to keep gating everything else behind Tek. I'm not *quite* a cynic enough to think they're nerfing *all* methods of transportation *just* as they're putting out Tek things that bypass those nerfs as some intentional way to push us towards Tek, but not cynic enough to have not considered it.

[Cipher]

Początkowo opublikowane przez lkjfdsaofmc:

I mean, if that's how you feel Jaggi, I really have never found it all that difficult if you start in a very basic area... One tip I'd suggest on PvP is leaving your stuff unlocked until you're able to defend attacks and have a sign saying, "I just started, take what you want if you must"

Or you can bendover drop your pants and say have your way! Bhaaaaa the advice people give!

[lkjfdsaofmc]

It's honestly good advice, most of the time people don't raid you if you do that, or if they do they only take a bit, much better then them exploding half your house

[War Bear]

Got to agree that somethings got to change here... found the thread while looking for ways to defend my rafts from attacks.

Now, I usually stay as far away from the sea as I can, EXCEPT when there is new dinos to tame that can only be found in certain areas.

Now seeing as I play on a server running The Center and have my base down in the redwoods, with no quetzal available, there was no other way for me to transport land dinos over the sea than the rafts. First attack happened as soon as I had crossed the sea in the shallows near one of the ruins, and would prove to be just the first of many.

Total count of separate attacks? 7 times. Usually escaped with enough HP to survive a single hit more (3-4 hits seems to be enough in most cases), purely because of my friend and her high level bary, and even then the fish would ignore her attacks and focus on my raft.

Can imagine how tense I was when I were halfway over the sea, getting chased by that damn fish, with a raft loaded with swamp/snow animals and mantas/megalodons everywhere.

[Galoogie]

Leeds are ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ broken. They share spawners with megalodon, which means the spawn in shallow water. Was on the Center map and one spawned right between Skull Island and the beach. Several days ago i was on Ark map and one spawned right on the shore of the big island next to the red obi. Something that size should not spawn in shallow water. I like their purpose, but their current spawn locations and spawn frequency make rafts completely useless.

You have absolutely no way to defend against them. Something to deter them, like an underwater turret that can drive away a leed or something, would be great.
The fact that they can phase through structures definitely needs to be fixed, whether it's a bug or not. I know they've stated that sinking platforms is an exploit, but fix the exploit instead of breaking it further. Make it so a leed can do damage to any type of structure instead of just phasing through them, or something.

Being on the Center map and living in redwoods in incredibly tedious without a raft, and with the flier nerf it's almost torture to have to go over the sea. Rafts have been made unusable by the leed, and fliers have been nerfed to hell, but nothing else is being made any more viable as a mount...

[lkjfdsaofmc]

yeah nothing viable at all COUGH MOSA PLATFORM COUGH
not to say I don't agree that things are tedious but there ARE other options, building large bridges or mosasaurs just to name a couple

[🦊 Hermit]

Początkowo opublikowane przez lkjfdsaofmc:

yeah nothing viable at all COUGH MOSA PLATFORM COUGH
not to say I don't agree that things are tedious but there ARE other options, building large bridges or mosasaurs just to name a couple

Sure, mosa platform...at level 85. What about the 84 levels before then?

Rafts are a low level transport option, so they need a low level solution to the leedy being insurmountable.

[lkjfdsaofmc]

Hermit honestly they don't... I agree that the gap between either plesi/mosa platforms and rafts needs to be gapped, but I don't think that gap needs to be filled by making rafts better or whales weaker, they are decent for a low level transport and can sometimes even go across open water if you scout for whales. But for now, until they introduce better boats or something of that nature, we have options, (funny how you ignored that I also suggested building bridges) you can also simply get a dolphin if you really need to cross the water early game as you will most of the time outrun most things (oh sure you can't bring dino's but if you're that scared of going across just WAIT UNTIL YOU'RE LATER GAME)

[Dooks]

I still think an upgraded raft is the answer as then you could step up! ...so maybe start as you would with buildings thatch/wood/stone(or reinforced wood) metal making the last strong enough to take the damage and giving the new whale a "cut off" to it's aggro after a set time without retaliation (that way they no longer destroy your raft "just because" and when you aren't on it! ......then it would make rafts viable AND add to the game as it would have you farming for these new items .....it would also allow the upgrades to be spread across the levels so also adding to the feeling of progression, this idea works better than "stay out the water till you lvl up" and I cannot see many people building a bridge to santuary island (ott example but popular location for new players) on main map as with current situation it would take MOST of the game to raise just the materials for that idea! also the bridge idea would ONLY likely work on pve as pvp a bridge is getting trolled 4 sure!! that may be why people went past that idea as it only works for a few (big tribe pve) what is needed is a "happy medium" something everyone can work with rather than the recent changes that again really only work for pvp official

[Stormtempter]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Gale the Whale:

Leeds are ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ broken. They share spawners with megalodon, which means the spawn in shallow water. Was on the Center map and one spawned right between Skull Island and the beach. Several days ago i was on Ark map and one spawned right on the shore of the big island next to the red obi. Something that size should not spawn in shallow water. I like their purpose, but their current spawn locations and spawn frequency make rafts completely useless.

A-frickin-men. Everytime I've encountered a Leeds has been in very shallow water. Even when I drive my boat to a shore, it'll follow. Leeds are a benthic leviathan, and they should stick to the deep waters ONLY. The Center map is incredibly difficult to get around without a raft and if a Leeds will spawn anywhere at anytime and wreck your ♥♥♥♥, whats the point?

I'm taking a few days break after it destroyed my mobile raft base near skull island, in water it had no business being in. Maybe they'll give them their own spawns, maybe they'll leave it be. I have better things to do than to just toss resources into the sea and kiss them goodbye.

[Big Stick Energy]

To be fair, sunken foundations is, in and of itself, an exploit.

That said, I do believe adjustments need to be made for the Leeds, along with an upgrade to the raft in form of other aquatic vehicles as a substitute for dino taming.

[Windwalker82]

I just encountered my first Leeds, with my houseboat. On the Center. In very shallow water (jungle coastline between the blue obelisk). Houseboat got wrecked, obviously, despite my heroic efforts to fire everything I had at it.

Basically they nerfed both air transport and aquatic transport, and imho you need one of those to get around the Center effectively. Like the flyer-nerf I understand the why (boats were arguably getting more powerful than was intended) but at this point it is hopelessly unbalanced as the Leeds apparently also spawns in shallow water.

Also, the raft is low-level. Certainly not high enough to expect a player to have a mosa or a school of megalodons to protect the raft. When you're high enough level to defend against a Leeds you're also more likely to not even use a raft anymore, as you've probably got a well established base, or maybe even a mosa/plesi doubling as houseboat.

As I was just messing around in singleplayer before (if ever) I join a server, I was lucky enough to make a backup of the game before I set sail. If I'm not mistaken I'll encounter the Leeds at the same spot, and I might be able to approach this tactically now.

[( i ) ACTION BASTARD]

A WC admin said that Leeds damage vs rafts is unintended and will be fixed. Now all they need to do is ALSO keep the thing from being able to ghost through foundations and defenses, and itll be fine.

Until then, rafts are a waste of time and resources, since you can lose even a metal raft in one shot to this broken animal.

[Commander Wiggley Biggley™]

Początkowo opublikowane przez ( i ) Action Bastard:

A WC admin said that Leeds damage vs rafts is unintended and will be fixed. Now all they need to do is ALSO keep the thing from being able to ghost through foundations and defenses, and itll be fine.

Until then, rafts are a waste of time and resources, since you can lose even a metal raft in one shot to this broken animal.

*raft is killed by leedsychthis is the spotlight*
"thats not suppose to happen"
uh huh