Let's Talk Leedsichthys and Rafts

[🦊 Hermit]

Ok, this topic has been somewhat lost in the chaos over the flyer nerf, however now that things are calming down a little perhaps it's time to address another of the elephants in the room. Or in this case, the whale in the sea.

I do like the idea of the raft having some kind of threat, something which has the chance of causing you some pain and risk for using one. I don't object to that concept at all. However as with a number of dinos that have been added of late, it's initial concept seems to me to be a little overpowered. So this discussion is to give the team a bit of feedback about the leedsichthys, and what could be done to improve it.

Please try to keep all comments constructive.

I haven't fully tested out the raft destruction aspect myself yet, however I have seen how fast the whale is when chasing a raft - I know there is no escape from one once it has you in it's sights. I've also heard from others who have done tests that there is no real defense against it...any structure built below the raft to try and block the thing from getting to it is ignored, and the leedsichthys can phase right through it to attack the boat itself, even if the raft is stationary with nobody at the helm.

It's this inevitabillity, this lack of any recourse at all, which rather annoys me about this game mechanic. I don't mind having the danger there, but I would like some kind of way to protect or defend against said danger, even if that protection costs a lot of resources to acchive. And said protection would have to be available in the lower-medium tier of the game, because once a tribe get higher level tames their use of rafts tends to be superceeded by dinos so rafts are an early game tool.

So what options could we have to balance the mechanic a little better? One option could simply be removing the abillity of the leedy to ignore underwater structures surrounding a raft. If the thing had to break through a number of pillars and walls before it was able to damage the raft behind, it would give a little bit of extra time for the raft occupants to make their way into shallow water where they would be able to escape the thing. I don't even mind if the leedy was given the abillity to damage stone (although at a reduced rate to the dunkie), so long as wood or stone structures were able to slow down it's advance on a raft ever so slightly.

Another option is some kind of construction or item that acts as a 'whale repellant' for a limited time, kinda like the bug repellant for spiders. One can activate it on a raft, and it gives temporary immunity to the leedy's vision or attacks, although if it runs out while you're on the open water and you don't have more available, you'll be sunk quickly. Again, I don't mind if such an item cost a lot to produce, so long as it was available in the early-midgame, not a tek item.

Does anybody else have any other ideas on this matter? Discuss.

[Goldtooth™]

I don't think any of what you suggested is much good looking at the Dossier, Wildcard have decided that rafts are going to be screwed by Leedy. I usually ignore anything that is a sea dino and implemented because I don't intend to go into it.

I rudely awakened to this flippin' whale yesterday after spending a good 15 hours on a raft base on an official server. It hits directly through all buildings, has an unbeliable amount of health and moves faster than you. When a raft is destroyed it just destroys everything placed ontop of it and then sinks.

Rafts are broken when these things are around, its simple.

[🦊 Hermit]

^That's the very reason for this post...to figure out a way to prevent rafts from being broken any more.

WC are doing the same with this mechanic as they did with the flyer nerf, going all out at first, then toning it down until it is balanced. Whether that is a good strategy or not is up for debate, but regardless that's the situation at the moment. So the purpose of this topic is to throw around ideas about how it could be balanced, so that when the devs get around to reigning the leedy in and making it less OP, they have some community feedback to work with.

[Ailsaa]

They need to give us better rafts the current ones are very early game at lvl 15, right now we have stuff like tek tier but the best we can do with a raft is some wood, thatch and fiber.. lol

[Stuart]

I think they are really cool. I got the fright of my life when one attacked me. I find just keeping near the coastline keeps them at bay

[Dolomite83]

Real metal boats

[rivernymph]

Oh I like the idea of a highter end raft. I am on an island on the island. My island is serounded by four of these guys at min.With the flyer nerf we are kinda stuck on our island.

I did testing with the rafts and found out.
1. the first hit all your dinnos fly off the raft
2. Megladons swim with the leeds so they atack what falls
3. you can out run it, kina after the first hit
4.if they hit you twice your raft is gone.

[🦊 Hermit]

Originally posted by ุ:

I think they are really cool. I got the fright of my life when one attacked me. I find just keeping near the coastline keeps them at bay

That is one option, but it doesn't solve the issue for maps which have much more water on them, such as the Center. And it also doesn't cover you when you do occasionally need to head out into open water for some reason. In cases like these I do feel we need some kind of recourse.

Originally posted by Dolomite83:

Real metal boats

They have already said more boats will be coming, and I look forward to seeing them. However again, these will only be available from metal tier, and rafts would still have no defense against the leedy. Yet it is in the earlygame where rafts are used the most.

[MortVent]

single player, it's tricky....

Multiplayer, get tribe mates on meglas, mosa, etc to clear the way for you.

[Dolomite83]

Originally posted by Hermit:

Originally posted by ุ:

I think they are really cool. I got the fright of my life when one attacked me. I find just keeping near the coastline keeps them at bay

That is one option, but it doesn't solve the issue for maps which have much more water on them, such as the Center. And it also doesn't cover you when you do occasionally need to head out into open water for some reason. In cases like these I do feel we need some kind of recourse.

Originally posted by Dolomite83:

Real metal boats

They have already said more boats will be coming, and I look forward to seeing them. However again, these will only be available from metal tier, and rafts would still have no defense against the leedy. Yet it is in the earlygame where rafts are used the most.

Imho rafts should be used only for rivers and shallow waters, not open sea

[Raught]

I'd like to see Plesio have a "raft mode" where they raise their neck and curve it like a swan, can no longer attack or dive, and behave like a raft. A higher tiered raft, that is ignored by Leeds.

[🦊 Hermit]

Originally posted by MortVent:

single player, it's tricky....

Multiplayer, get tribe mates on meglas, mosa, etc to clear the way for you.

But what if you're new to the game and don't yet have megas and mosas?

Originally posted by Dolomite83:

Imho rafts should be used only for rivers and shallow waters, not open sea

That's a little difficult for maps such as the Center, which have large, deep areas of water between islands. How would one move from island to island in the earlygame without going over those deep areas on a raft?

And in all fairness, the Island's inland waterways are barely navagable with rafts for the most part. A lot of them are very narrow and shallow, with lots of rocks blocking the way. Out in the open ocean is virtually the only place rafts CAN be used on the Island map.

[Raught]

It'd be neat if they added spears deal extreme damage when thrown at a Leed. Or better yet a harpoon gun.

[fox™ ✠]

Mate with the eels in water i will dont go into it. Its suicide. The eels need a huge nerf to. They kill nosas xD

[Raught]

Originally posted by fox™ ✠:

Mate with the eels in water i will dont go into it. Its suicide. The eels need a huge nerf to. They kill nosas xD

They did nerf them. for meer moments. :( and then the hotfix reverted it. It was amazing, they stunned, but didn't knock you off your mount.

[🦊 Hermit]

Originally posted by Raught:

It'd be neat if they added spears deal extreme damage when thrown at a Leed. Or better yet a harpoon gun.

Harpoon gun might work, but may have balance issues if it were introduced at a low enough level to actually be useful. It'd likely have to be a metal tier item, and again, that wouldn't help newbies on a raft.

The spear idea is an interesting one though...it'd give a use for the spear even into the mid and lategame when melee has progressed to the pike and sword. That could possibly work.

Originally posted by fox™ ✠:

Mate with the eels in water i will dont go into it. Its suicide. The eels need a huge nerf to. They kill nosas xD

I agree, the eels also need a nerf. But like with the leedy, I'm assuming that will come in the future when other dinos are balanced more too. And a lot has already been said about their need for balance, so I figured there was no need to make a new topic on them for now.