Naginata + Bow Samurai = line of sight blocked?

[skyhrg]

So I thought of using naginatas as front line with bow samurai in the back. The armor of the naginatas would absorb much of the friendly fire while the arrows would help them win the battle.

But when I tested this out, it turns out most of the archers get their line of sight blocked?

Any tips besides flanking with the archers? The whole point of naginatas is to keep archers behind is to just fire on both of them, but this tactic doesn't seem to be implementable?

[easytarget]

I use nag as a front line all the time and don't recall seeing this as a problem

[Engineer Weierstrass]

allies troops block line of sight. A moder found a solution but troops wont shoot from castles and it's really something you dont want. Yet i think i could figure out a way to do so. If it work i'll upload it in the workshop for vanilla

[Mile pro Libertate]

Originally posted by skyhrg:

So I thought of using naginatas as front line with bow samurai in the back. The armor of the naginatas would absorb much of the friendly fire while the arrows would help them win the battle.

But when I tested this out, it turns out most of the archers get their line of sight blocked?

Any tips besides flanking with the archers? The whole point of naginatas is to keep archers behind is to just fire on both of them, but this tactic doesn't seem to be implementable?

If the naginata are on lower ground it shouldn't be a problem at all.

It's usually best to put the archers on rising ground behind the line, or, if no high ground is available, to have them in front of the main line and withdraw them when enemy gets too close.

Also, if you do have archers behind the line on the same height of ground, don't out them too close to the melee troops. You want about 16 or so ranks space between the two so they dont refuse to shoot because of los.

[easytarget]

Why am I not seeing this as a problem? I've got two armies full of nag and sam archers and I've got plenty of arrows sticking out of my enemies in every battle?!

Is this perhaps because I have them in front of the nag at initial engagement and then push them far enough behind them once we engage with the enemy that they are firing over them after that?

Because I can assure you my archers are firing away....

[skyhrg]

Hmm..

I think my problem is that my archers are too close to the nags.

[Mile pro Libertate]

Originally posted by skyhrg:

Hmm..

I think my problem is that my archers are too close to the nags.

Yeah, that's probably it. Like I said, put about 16 ranks space, or about the same distance as two yari ash blocks, between the line of naginata and the archers.

[skyhrg]

If it doesn't work, I've noticed that making them fire in an X shape - that is, left archer fires into the right flank and vice versa - works better.

[Teutonic Ritterin]

Originally posted by skyhrg:

So I thought of using naginatas as front line with bow samurai in the back. The armor of the naginatas would absorb much of the friendly fire while the arrows would help them win the battle.

But when I tested this out, it turns out most of the archers get their line of sight blocked?

Any tips besides flanking with the archers? The whole point of naginatas is to keep archers behind is to just fire on both of them, but this tactic doesn't seem to be implementable?

Simple Solution.
Put your Samurai Archers in the front,and pull them back when the Naginata and enemy is starting to clash.
and after the line clash,bring the archers near the Right/Left Flank to Flank the enemy,and then fire away,watch out for Cavalry Though.

also,bow units can't fire when the situation is like this
A= Your Archer
N= Your Nagi Sam
E= your enemy
X= Fighting

A==>NXE

or for easier way,try firing on top of hills,I think it works,Work once with Otomo Matchlocks.

[[MCS] Yoritomo]

The bow mechanics are bit difficult to use them effective. Goodplayers will aways harass your archers and you will be buisy to protect them.
Archers have no LOS but they cant shoot into melee and they wont shoot if its impossible from ballistics. Best use Archers on fire at will and hold position. Formed a square. Giving a attack order without having 200 or 225 Range result in disobey orders to shoot or run towards an enemy that left the range.
Dont use arcers to kill a specific target. They are support units that should soft up the enemy for your Cav. and Inf. in my opinion.

[Teutonic Ritterin]

Originally posted by MCS Yoritomo:

The bow mechanics are bit difficult to use them effective. Goodplayers will aways harass your archers and you will be buisy to protect them.
Archers have no LOS but they cant shoot into melee and they wont shoot if its impossible from ballistics. Best use Archers on fire at will and hold position. Formed a square. Giving a attack order without having 200 or 225 Range result in disobey orders to shoot or run towards an enemy that left the range.
Dont use arcers to kill a specific target. They are support units that should soft up the enemy for your Cav. and Inf. in my opinion.

Some people use archers differently.
There's no Only One Purpose unit in Shogun 2.(Except Katana Cavalry,they're only good when dismounted,and only use them if you go full cavalry)
Some players has a good reflexes,and can micro their archers.

I myself is a Bow Cavalry Expert,and here's my tactics.
in every Cavalry army(Yes,I used the takeda just for fun,and to give Katana Cavalry a chance,and they're pretty good,but I don't expect them to be good,so I don't trust them,and try to support them)I always have atleast 5 Bow cavalry.
During the skirmish stage,my Bow Cavalry will be Dismounted,while the Dismounted Katana Cavalry Screen their Mounts,and the bow cavalry mounts.

Bow Cavalry are weak against archers,but if you dismount them,their hitbox is smaller,thus when under fire,they will get less casualities.

After the skirmish stage(the enemy mainline is moving out)I quickly withdraw my Dismounted bow Cavalry,Make them run towards their mounts,and Mounts them.
While my Dismounted Katana Cavalry fight their mainline,my Bow Cavalry is Fast enough to turn to their flank(with the help of some Light/Yari Cavalry),and flank Shoot the enemy.

FYI:
my regular Cavalry army that's kinda effective is
1 General
10 Katana Cavalry
5 Bow Cavalry
4 Yari Cavalry

2nd FYI:
Bow Cavalry is underated,because everyone doesn't use them,but they're a good combination when teamed with Yari Cavalry on a Flanking mission,the Yari Cavalry are weak to spears,so when flanking a Yari unit,it's better to shoot them,and since bow cavalry has 60 Accuracy+10% (Art)+10%(Legendary Building)+25 with Building upgrades.
so you will have 97 Accuracy.

[sudokek]

Or you know, keep your bow units in front until you need to move them back. It's not that hard to be honest. Also, it's what people did in real life. Unless the chance of ambush was present of course.

[Engineer Weierstrass]

Yujuuuuuu guys i found out a way to fire over allies. I could make a mod for vanilla game. I would need to eliminate fire arrows and replace it to another ability (so all units would have the same fire arrow range). How interested you would be to use a mod like that?

[Mile pro Libertate]

I have never found the trouble with firing over allies to be a problem.

Irl, plunging fire was not used nearly as much as people think, either in Europe or Japan.

Direct fire at short range was the way to maximize the warbow's power and achieve penetration.

So like rl, I think putting the archers to either the front (as skirmishers), or to the flanks of the line (when the two sides get locked into melee) makes the most sense.

[Engineer Weierstrass]

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=960661676
Here you have. For single player, multiplayer campaign and custom multiplayer (both players need it)