Censorship in Germany and other Countries

[pixxelherz]

This might be an unnecessary question, but I am wondering whether or not this game could be banned or censored post-release in countries, especially Germany. Germany is known to be extra strict about these kind of games.

I am guessing, however, because this game is distributed digitally only the chances of this game getting a ban or heavy censoring are slim or none existent. This I am assuming on basis of someone commenting some other place that games exclusively distributed digitally are NOT under the scrutiny of the rating institution.

What are your opinions, facts or concerns?

EDIT 16.02.2015

Replies by the Devs

helepolis1980 původně napsal:

Germany and Australia (an maybe other countries) may ban the game. The may ban the game purchase, but for example if you have already the key and added it to your account, you should be able to download it when it's out.

We will also make game available through other platforms, so there will be a chance to buy it from Germany even if banned.

helepolis1980 původně napsal:

We are afraid that game may be banned in Germany. Though if you have already activated it, it shouldn't be banned. They may ban purchasing it later. We will have also other ways to buy Hatred digitally, but we will announce it later.

Replies by Users

DarkChaplain původně napsal:

helepolis1980 původně napsal:

Germany and Australia (an maybe other countries) may ban the game. The may ban the game purchase, but for example if you have already the key and added it to your account, you should be able to download it when it's out.

We will also make game available through other platforms, so there will be a chance to buy it from Germany even if banned.

Just making sure you realize that its not exactly a "ban" that would be enforced. All it could do was prevent you from openly advertising it in german stores. Adults are still allowed to purchase and possess the game regardless of what happens. So there will never be a need for you to implement IP locks or region restrictions.

Relevant Links and Forums

USK FAQ, pertains to Germany[www.usk.de] Thanks to DanTheKraut for the reference
foruncut - German Steam group

[Siege]

Germany and Australia (an maybe other countries) may ban the game. The may ban the game purchase, but for example if you have already the key and added it to your account, you should be able to download it when it's out.

We will also make game available through other platforms, so there will be a chance to buy it from Germany even if banned.

[pixxelherz]

helepolis1980 původně napsal:

Germany and Australia (an maybe other countries) may ban the game. The may ban the game purchase, but for example if you have already the key and added it to your account, you should be able to download it when it's out.

We will also make game available through other platforms, so there will be a chance to buy it from Germany even if banned.

Yes, thank you, very clear by now. Thanks for stating this again!

[DarkChaplain]

helepolis1980 původně napsal:

Germany and Australia (an maybe other countries) may ban the game. The may ban the game purchase, but for example if you have already the key and added it to your account, you should be able to download it when it's out.

We will also make game available through other platforms, so there will be a chance to buy it from Germany even if banned.

Just making sure you realize that its not exactly a "ban" that would be enforced. All it could do was prevent you from openly advertising it in german stores. Adults are still allowed to purchase and possess the game regardless of what happens. So there will never be a need for you to implement IP locks or region restrictions.

[ShadowAngel]

DarkChaplain původně napsal:

Just making sure you realize that its not exactly a "ban" that would be enforced. All it could do was prevent you from openly advertising it in german stores. Adults are still allowed to purchase and possess the game regardless of what happens. So there will never be a need for you to implement IP locks or region restrictions.

The problem is that Valve still ignores Germany and it's laws. So many letters were sent to Gabe Newell about that and 10 years ago he said "we will look into it", nothing happened. Which is typical for Valve, they don't give a ♥♥♥♥ about their customers since they have more or less the monopoly on digital distribution.

The problem is: Without a proper age verification system on Steam, banned games are not allowed to be sold to german customers. For example F.E.A.R. isn't even viewable on the Steam Store if you're in Germany, it just doesn't exist and it's not even completely banned (list B) just on List A, so with a proper age verification, adults would be allowed to buy it.
So what we do is ask our friends who live in other countries to buy the game for us and gift it. That works as long as the Publisher doesn't include ♥♥♥♥ like Craptivision did with "GeoLock" on the latest Wolfenstein in it's original form.

So as long as the creators of Hatred don't include any lock themself, all should be fine.
Don't know about Australia though, it seems they actually block everything, which is why Denaton encouraged australians to pirate Hotline Miami 2.

[DanTheKraut]

helepolis1980 původně napsal:

Germany and Australia (an maybe other countries) may ban the game. The may ban the game purchase, but for example if you have already the key and added it to your account, you should be able to download it when it's out.

We will also make game available through other platforms, so there will be a chance to buy it from Germany even if banned.

We helped with our votes for greenlight to buy the game through Steam not somewhere else! If you remove the game from Steam in Germany which is only your decision (Germany can't force you to do so because the german laws DO NOT COUNT for Steam) it is a direct slap in the face of those germans who voted!

Steam is violating the german laws 365 days a year ,every single minute anyway and no one gives a crap!

[DarkChaplain]

And yet Activision's Prototype is perfectly visible and purchasable in Germany. That's on List A. Postal was put on the index, available in Germany. Various versions of various Resident Evil games are on the index, too, and RE4's remaster had no trouble being sold on Steam. Grand Theft Auto has a few on the index. Even the original Far Cry is on list A, yet perfectly available.

There are a ton of older games that are on Steam, right now, available for purchase in Germany, that are "banned" here. Valve does not give a damn.

The only reason certain games are *not* being made available on the german storefront are big publishers trying to avoid a hassle. The only reason games are being cut for the german market is to avoid getting an adult only rating or being placed on the index, which would mean that big marketing campaigns would have to skip Germany since advertising the games would be difficult, resulting in less sales.

Other developers/publishers just decide not to sell a game they suspect of getting put onto the index in Germany to begin with, which means they don't need to have the game checked to begin with, and nobody could bully them into regionlocking.

Wolfenstein is no Activision title, that's Bethesda. Capcom does region-locks on Dead Rising (though I think that was quite ineffectual).

[Cydramech]

DanTheKraut původně napsal:

helepolis1980 původně napsal:

Germany and Australia (an maybe other countries) may ban the game. The may ban the game purchase, but for example if you have already the key and added it to your account, you should be able to download it when it's out.

We will also make game available through other platforms, so there will be a chance to buy it from Germany even if banned.

We helped with our votes for greenlight to buy the game through Steam not somewhere else! If you remove the game from Steam in Germany which is only your decision (Germany can't force you to do so because the german laws DO NOT COUNT for Steam) it is a direct slap in the face of those germans who voted!

Steam is violating the german laws 365 days a year ,every single minute anyway and no one gives a crap!

You should think about taking it up with your own government instead of blaming an international business for making doing business in your country such a huge hassle. As an entrepreneur myself, I wouldn't even remotely think about doing business anywhere in Europe, and this is one of many reasons why.

[pixxelherz]

DanTheKraut původně napsal:

helepolis1980 původně napsal:

Germany and Australia (an maybe other countries) may ban the game. The may ban the game purchase, but for example if you have already the key and added it to your account, you should be able to download it when it's out.

We will also make game available through other platforms, so there will be a chance to buy it from Germany even if banned.

We helped with our votes for greenlight to buy the game through Steam not somewhere else! If you remove the game from Steam in Germany which is only your decision (Germany can't force you to do so because the german laws DO NOT COUNT for Steam) it is a direct slap in the face of those germans who voted!

Steam is violating the german laws 365 days a year ,every single minute anyway and no one gives a crap!

In any case, I'd be just fine with buying the game through their website or any other website if the game should not be made available through the steam store in Germany. As long as activation works all is good.

[DanTheKraut]

Cydramech původně napsal:

DanTheKraut původně napsal:

We helped with our votes for greenlight to buy the game through Steam not somewhere else! If you remove the game from Steam in Germany which is only your decision (Germany can't force you to do so because the german laws DO NOT COUNT for Steam) it is a direct slap in the face of those germans who voted!

Steam is violating the german laws 365 days a year ,every single minute anyway and no one gives a crap!

You should think about taking it up with your own government instead of blaming an international business for making doing business in your country such a huge hassle. As an entrepreneur myself, I wouldn't even remotely think about doing business anywhere in Europe, and this is one of many reasons why.

What about german laws DO NOT COUNT for Steam isn't understandable? Want an example? Every time a german customer buys a game rated 18 by the USK or isn't rated by the USK (unrated = automaticly rated 18) which includes lots of game a age verification would be needed otherwise it is a violation of our youth protection law. For titles which are on the index a closed usergroup would be needed (only access after age verification). Steam doesn't care and our youth protection "staff" doesn't like it but there is nothing they can do about because Steam isn't a german shop.

[Cydramech]

DanTheKraut původně napsal:

Cydramech původně napsal:

You should think about taking it up with your own government instead of blaming an international business for making doing business in your country such a huge hassle. As an entrepreneur myself, I wouldn't even remotely think about doing business anywhere in Europe, and this is one of many reasons why.

What about german laws DO NOT COUNT for Steam isn't understandable?

Are you absolutely sure there's no law affecting Steam? Have you read every single law in Germany on commerce and related subjects? Or are you just going by what someone else has told you?

And if one has to look at dozens of laws just to know something isn't against the law, that's not hassle-free either.

[John "Böri" Wayne]

Please make a list for possible bans. I live in Switzerland and as far here we didnt had any problems with any ``brutal`` game releases. Hope someone can confirm this.

[DanTheKraut]

Cydramech původně napsal:

DanTheKraut původně napsal:

What about german laws DO NOT COUNT for Steam isn't understandable?

Are you absolutely sure there's no law affecting Steam? Have you read every single law in Germany on commerce and related subjects? Or are you just going by what someone else has told you?

And if one has to look at dozens of laws just to know something isn't against the law, that's not hassle-free either.

Yes, I'am sure. Go mail the KJM (Kommission für Jugendmedienschutz or in english Commission for the Protection of Minors in the Media) about Steam they will tell you that they would like to do something against Steam selling games (including indexed games) without age verification but they can't because Steam isn't based in Germany.

Oh and when it comes to the youth protection law I guess I know every law that counts.

The german laws can't ban a game they can restrict the selling up to a certain point and ban commercials nothing else.

It is always funny that someone pops up saying "blame your government" those people know nothing about Germany and it's laws. Would be the same if I say you can buy guns in the US like candy (which isn't true).

[Cydramech]

DanTheKraut původně napsal:

Cydramech původně napsal:

Are you absolutely sure there's no law affecting Steam? Have you read every single law in Germany on commerce and related subjects? Or are you just going by what someone else has told you?

And if one has to look at dozens of laws just to know something isn't against the law, that's not hassle-free either.

Yes, I'am sure. Go mail the KJM (Kommission für Jugendmedienschutz or in english Commission for the Protection of Minors in the Media) about Steam they will tell you that they would like to do something against Steam selling games (including indexed games) without age verification but they can't because Steam isn't based in Germany.

With german laws do not count I meant the youth protection law doesn't as it is violated by Steam every day.

I'll take your word on the Youth Protection law. But that's all I can do, anyways. Have you tried, oh I don't know... maybe asking more friends to speak to Steam/Valve about it?

[DanTheKraut]

Cydramech původně napsal:

DanTheKraut původně napsal:

Yes, I'am sure. Go mail the KJM (Kommission für Jugendmedienschutz or in english Commission for the Protection of Minors in the Media) about Steam they will tell you that they would like to do something against Steam selling games (including indexed games) without age verification but they can't because Steam isn't based in Germany.

With german laws do not count I meant the youth protection law doesn't as it is violated by Steam every day.

I'll take your word on the Youth Protection law. But that's all I can do, anyways. Have you tried, oh I don't know... maybe asking more friends to speak to Steam/Valve about it?

We try to talk to the publishers an normally it helps when we explain the legal situation for Germany.


The Steamgroup "forUncut" has over 80k members and their goal is that Valve implements a age verification for german Steamusers. They are in contact with Valve if I remember correctly.

Germany was always a bit special when it comes to youth protection laws. As example criminal code 131 StGB (glorification of violence) also counts for media which includes creatures who look human (it is included like this) or German google is censored by the BPjM (for nazi stuff as example) but because the basic law does not allow censorship they can't block websites (they are simply not allowed to do so) which is why you can use google.com instead to bypass the blacklist also you are allowed to buy, own and to sell everything regarding media in Germany because censorship isn't allowed.

If you don't believe me regarding censorship here is the official text from our rating board for videogames USK

... There is no reason why a computer game should not appear without a rating symbol. Adults are also free to decide what games they play and have legal access to unrated games and to games which have been placed on the index of media deemed unsuitable for children and young persons. For this reason, there can be no question of censorship in this regard. Censorship is in any case prohibited pursuant to Article 5 of German Basic Law.

http://www.usk.de/en/service/faqs/

[nutterich aka tatterich]

Just fyi, Germany is pretty strict about that stuff. L4D2 is without blood. Even TF2 is just sparkles and screws instead of body parts. There are some games completely unavailable via steam if you live in Germany.