How does Insulation work specifically?

[TJ the HedgeScout]

I know it's supposed to help with temperature, but how? is it temperature thresholds? duration before penalties kick in?

[AlphaGodith]

i believe fire and clothing raise your temp a certain amount, and being indoors moves your temperature a certain amount towards 'neutral' (so it'll make you colder in a desert or warmer in a tundra). i could be wrong tho.

[red51]

It determines how much you're protected from the environment temperature (mainly the cold). The higher the insulation, the more you're protected from the cold.
If the insultion value of your clothes is high enough and you're not wet/damp, you can stay out in the cold indefinitely (but in cold environments, it's usually not sufficient to just wear warm clothes - you also have to wear warm headgear [e.g. wooly or ushanka] as well as any kind of protection for your face [balaclava]).

In warm environments, however, high insulation values heat the player up more quickly (it's not dangerous atm, you just need to drink more).

[TJ the HedgeScout]

So it only protects you from the cold but not the heat?
That's a bit of a shame, the server i am moderator for has an RPG plugin, we are trying to make the survival skill give you tolerance for heat and cold. Is Insulation just for cold protection or will it also protect against heat as well in the future?

[red51]

It's like in real life: a thick fur coat (having a high thermal insulation value) keeps you warm in the winter, but you will sweat in the summer ^^

A high insulation value not only protects you from the cold. Your body still radiates heat, and this heat builds up under the clothes. There is unfortunately no universal protection for cold and for heat...

But if you're working on a plugin which gives tolerance for heat/cold: you could just change the player temperature directly. This can be done via Player.setTemperature()[javadoc.rising-world.net]. This method expects a celsius temperature - just set it to 20 or 30 every few seconds, that should result in a perfect player temperature ^^

[TJ the HedgeScout]

Originally posted by red51:

It's like in real life: a thick fur coat (having a high thermal insulation value) keeps you warm in the winter, but you will sweat in the summer ^^

A high insulation value not only protects you from the cold. Your body still radiates heat, and this heat builds up under the clothes. There is unfortunately no universal protection for cold and for heat...

But if you're working on a plugin which gives tolerance for heat/cold: you could just change the player temperature directly. This can be done via Player.setTemperature()[javadoc.rising-world.net]. This method expects a celsius temperature - just set it to 20 or 30 every few seconds, that should result in a perfect player temperature ^^

Alright, i will tell Vamp about it (he's the coder for the server)

[MustangMR]

Clothing and insulation still needs some looking at. I'm standing in my house with a fire a few feet away. My temp is 95. I take off my rag shirt (+50) and old cloth pants (+60) and it drops 20 degrees to 75. If I put on the balaklava and ushaka, it soars to 109. That's a 34 degree swing just from some basic clothing. Seems way too high.

Basic clothing should be very light on insulation and it leads to something that is probably a big change; layers. We should be able to keep our clothes on and then use a coat or other actual insulated clothing to be outside in the cold.

Can we wear armor over cloths? If so, then not so big a change. Just give clothing a smaller insulation value and allow coats or suits to go over like armor.

[Kaeru Gaman]

the balaklava plus ushanka is the combination that adds to the fur coat to keep you alive at night in the arctic. so it's no wonder it has a high value adding to your body temp.

this is all not a super-duper thing regarding realism but it's a game.
if the balaklave and ushanka are that two things that give you arctic insulation, it shall be that way.
testing them naked besides an oven is not the experiment to claim realism on.

[MustangMR]

Originally posted by Kaeru Gaman:

the balaklava plus ushanka is the combination that adds to the fur coat to keep you alive at night in the arctic. so it's no wonder it has a high value adding to your body temp.

this is all not a super-duper thing regarding realism but it's a game.
if the balaklave and ushanka are that two things that give you arctic insulation, it shall be that way.
testing them naked besides an oven is not the experiment to claim realism on.

Well, I agree that the headwear is meant to be worn outside, but my main point was about the clothes. They provided a 20 degree swing that sitting here in my office, wearing light clothes probably better than what the cloths in game, I am not 20 degrees hotter. Maybe a couple at best, given that environmental temperature is constant.

[Kaeru Gaman]

in the posting above you spoke about 34 degrees, not 20 degrees, so I thought you refer to the headgear, not the shirt.
however, it is just a model to provide some gameplay.

and, in your office, lets say you have 19° room temperature. take off all your cloths and wait when you're getting cold. the cothes you wear provide you some 37.5° temperature just around your skin. that are almost 20 degrees difference.

[MustangMR]

Originally posted by Kaeru Gaman:

in the posting above you spoke about 34 degrees, not 20 degrees, so I thought you refer to the headgear, not the shirt.
however, it is just a model to provide some gameplay.

Originally posted by MustangMR:

.... My temp is 95. I take off my rag shirt (+50) and old cloth pants (+60) and it drops 20 degrees to 75....

Probably should have left the headgear out of the discussion as that did confuse it a bit.

Originally posted by Kaeru Gaman:

and, in your office, lets say you have 19° room temperature. take off all your cloths and wait when you're getting cold. the cothes you wear provide you some 37.5° temperature just around your skin. that are almost 20 degrees difference.

Umm, no. I could sit here all day with or without clothes with air conditioning holding a temp of 75 degrees and not feel a bit of difference. I would agree though that people experience temperature differently. I used to go up north in the winter all the time for work and not take a jacket and be just fine while everyone else would be shivering in parkas.

I still think it needs some adjustment. I don't think I should be running around the arctic in a rag shirt and pants and boiling hot several feet away from a fire. Not sure what the best answer is as I do understand it's a game, but with the simple addition of jackets and outerwear, could probably come up with a better representation.

[MustangMR]

Well, I made the leather armor and it replaces the shirt, but with different properties for protection and lower insulation value, so coats and jackets would still need an architecture change, so I'll just table this and accept what is in game now.