what's the point of Hidden Hand skill in Tanto's skill tree?

[sidray749]

I've activated the Broken Spirit node that says "Hidden Hand cannot be blocked or parried." and some enemies can still catch Naoe's hand therefore the skill is still useless. Then wtf is the point of this skill anyways??? I swear Tanto is uber useless other than double assassination that also has a very specific condition to even use it.

[1amfr3e]

upgrade,upgrade...upgrade then you can.

[sidray749]

Originally posted by 1amfr3e:

upgrade,upgrade...upgrade then you can.

Do you even read my post. I said I’ve activated the Broken Spirit node that says “Hidden Hand cannot be blocked or parried.”

[Enorats]

Personally, I played with guaranteed assassinations turned on. With that on, this ability was the most OP one in the game. You can instantly kill any enemy (even bosses) every couple seconds.

Without that on, it would presumably function as a relatively minor damage ability if you're not specced into and geared for assassination damage. If you are specced/geared for that, then it'd be a significantly powered attack, albeit one that can be denied/blocked by anything that can deny an assassination (basically all the bosses, samurai, and other "large" enemies).

The assassination tree has skills that make it so enemies cannot deny assassination attempts, so maybe you need to have those in addition to the tanto skills to successfully use this ability against all enemies (without guaranteed assassination turned on).

[жестокослав.]

its bugged

[sidray749]

Originally posted by Enorats:

Personally, I played with guaranteed assassinations turned on. With that on, this ability was the most OP one in the game. You can instantly kill any enemy (even bosses) every couple seconds.

Without that on, it would presumably function as a relatively minor damage ability if you're not specced into and geared for assassination damage. If you are specced/geared for that, then it'd be a significantly powered attack, albeit one that can be denied/blocked by anything that can deny an assassination (basically all the bosses, samurai, and other "large" enemies).

The assassination tree has skills that make it so enemies cannot deny assassination attempts, so maybe you need to have those in addition to the tanto skills to successfully use this ability against all enemies (without guaranteed assassination turned on).

.... I've stated above that I've activated the node needed. Why didn't you people even read lmao.

[Harris]

Originally posted by sidray749:

I've activated the Broken Spirit node that says "Hidden Hand cannot be blocked or parried." and some enemies can still catch Naoe's hand therefore the skill is still useless. Then wtf is the point of this skill anyways???

As far as I can tell, the design intent behind Hidden Hand is to allow you to end combat on demand with the goal of reengaging stealth ASAP. This serves as the ultimate power spike for Naoe as it allows you the eliminate arguably the biggest frustration of the stealth playstyle - the need to deal with open combat when you're inevitably spotted.

With upgraded Hidden Hand, you enter a reality where all those stats you used to care about - vulnerable damage, critical damage, et cetera, are now irrelevant to you. You can simply ignore them and use some other engravings instead. This is huge. No, this is MASSIVE.

Hidden Hand is bananas when paired with the (now fixed) engraving for throwing kunai on assassination. You raised an alarm and see guardians approaching? Hidden Hand one of them, second one gets a kunai to the face - boom, two guardians instantly gone, just like that. Insane!

But you know what Hidden Hand is NOT designed to do? It's not designed to one-shot story targets (contracts ones still work though!). Because - and just think about it for a second - you would simply walk up to a target, ignoring stealth entirely, and press a button. Boom - all semblance of challenge is gone, and whatever new gear they would release in DLC is now irrelevant. Now, where's the fun in that?

And I know what you're thinking right now. "But Harris, how am I supposed to fight targets if Hidden Hand doesn't work on them and other stats are irrelevant to me now? And what do I do when I'm up against more than two enemies at once?"

Enter Shadow Piercer. This ability, with a tanto called Warrior's Garden, deals damage in health segments, namely 2 of them. This is enough to take care of most grunts and unarmored samurai. It's basically like throwing a kunai, only that you don't have to aim with it. Neat.

Still not enough for you? Smoke bombs. Use 'em, love 'em. Imagine you're up against a grunt and a samurai, and your Hidden Hand is on cooldown. Throw a smoke bomb into a grunt, this lets you assassinate him - kunai engraving lets you chain assassinate a nearby samurai. Bananas! Make sure to put "50% to refill a tool on kill" on your trinket for infinite smoke bombs.

Not enough still? Master Assassin Hood turns your ground attack damage into health segments as well, 2 of them. And there are many ways to put an enemy on the ground.

So with targets, you are still reliant on your conventional shenanigans. I'm fond of running assassinations in particular - with Master Assassin Gear, Cerulean Puzzle and during Heighten Senses it lets me remove 10 chunks of health on a running assassination, and from what I've seen no enemy in the game has more than that. But let's assume it has - then I'm gonna use Shadow Piercer, throw a smoke bomb (Animus shop has a tanto with engraving that does this automatically, Hatou tanto IIRC - unfortunately bugged for now), rinse and repeat.

Enemies spot you before you're able to run into them for an assassination? Well there are plenty of remedies to that. Swift Shinobi Hood slows time upon detection AND gives you a couple seconds during which the assassination button is still on screen even though combat technically already started. Don't like that? Use Gennojo. Gennojo died in your run or you did not recruit him? Heighten Senses. Don't like that? Smoke bombs. Or even the engraving that makes your steps silent, provided you're not gonna run head-on.

Have fun, and never talk bad about the best ability in the game again.

[sidray749]

Originally posted by Harris:

Originally posted by sidray749:

I've activated the Broken Spirit node that says "Hidden Hand cannot be blocked or parried." and some enemies can still catch Naoe's hand therefore the skill is still useless. Then wtf is the point of this skill anyways???

As far as I can tell, the design intent behind Hidden Hand is to allow you to end combat on demand with the goal of reengaging stealth ASAP. This serves as the ultimate power spike for Naoe as it allows you the eliminate arguably the biggest frustration of the stealth playstyle - the need to deal with open combat when you're inevitably spotted.

With upgraded Hidden Hand, you enter a reality where all those stats you used to care about - vulnerable damage, critical damage, et cetera, are now irrelevant to you. You can simply ignore them and use some other engravings instead. This is huge. No, this is MASSIVE.

Hidden Hand is bananas when paired with the (now fixed) engraving for throwing kunai on assassination. You raised an alarm and see guardians approaching? Hidden Hand one of them, second one gets a kunai to the face - boom, two guardians instantly gone, just like that. Insane!

But you know what Hidden Hand is NOT designed to do? It's not designed to one-shot story targets (contracts ones still work though!). Because - and just think about it for a second - you would simply walk up to a target, ignoring stealth entirely, and press a button. Boom - all semblance of challenge is gone, and whatever new gear they would release in DLC is now irrelevant. Now, where's the fun in that?

And I know what you're thinking right now. "But Harris, how am I supposed to fight targets if Hidden Hand doesn't work on them and other stats are irrelevant to me now? And what do I do when I'm up against more than two enemies at once?"

Enter Shadow Piercer. This ability, with a tanto called Warrior's Garden, deals damage in health segments, namely 2 of them. This is enough to take care of most grunts and unarmored samurai. It's basically like throwing a kunai, only that you don't have to aim with it. Neat.

Still not enough for you? Smoke bombs. Use 'em, love 'em. Imagine you're up against a grunt and a samurai, and your Hidden Hand is on cooldown. Throw a smoke bomb into a grunt, this lets you assassinate him - kunai engraving lets you chain assassinate a nearby samurai. Bananas! Make sure to put "50% to refill a tool on kill" on your trinket for infinite smoke bombs.

Not enough still? Master Assassin Hood turns your ground attack damage into health segments as well, 2 of them. And there are many ways to put an enemy on the ground.

So with targets, you are still reliant on your conventional shenanigans. I'm fond of running assassinations in particular - with Master Assassin Gear, Cerulean Puzzle and during Heighten Senses it lets me remove 10 chunks of health on a running assassination, and from what I've seen no enemy in the game has more than that. But let's assume it has - then I'm gonna use Shadow Piercer, throw a smoke bomb (Animus shop has a tanto with engraving that does this automatically, Hatou tanto IIRC - unfortunately bugged for now), rinse and repeat.

Enemies spot you before you're able to run into them for an assassination? Well there are plenty of remedies to that. Swift Shinobi Hood slows time upon detection AND gives you a couple seconds during which the assassination button is still on screen even though combat technically already started. Don't like that? Use Gennojo. Gennojo died in your run or you did not recruit him? Heighten Senses. Don't like that? Smoke bombs. Or even the engraving that makes your steps silent, provided you're not gonna run head-on.

Have fun, and never talk bad about the best ability in the game again.

You don't have to write an entire essay just to patronize me on how I play the game lmao. I know all the tricks with smoke bombs and Shadow Piercer, this game isn't that complicated. I just wanted to know the reason why Hidden Hands doesn't work with certain enemies even if I've activated the Broken Spirit node. If the reason that the skill doesn't work because of the target is a story related enemies then alright I can accept that. Get off your high horse bro lmao.

[Harris]

Originally posted by sidray749:

I just wanted to know the reason why Hidden Hands doesn't work with certain enemies even if I've activated the Broken Spirit node. If the reason that the skill doesn't work because of the target is a story related enemies then alright I can accept that. Get off your high horse bro lmao.

Does my name look like Jonathan Dumont to you? Then how would I know? xD

Look, just go over the ability description. What does it say? Can't be blocked or parried? Where does it say anything like "can't be denied"? After all, Hidden Hand is not necessarily an ability you use in combat, it gets +1 segment for use out-of-combat. Where pretty much everyone would deny it unless you have the relevant node in the Assassin tree.

So yeah, I think this is exactly what it is - "bosses" aka any target of a degree that is higher than a contract (even a lowly raider assuming it's a named one) is immune to the thing. You're free to take it to the bug reporter as a bug, but Ubi will probably tell you its intended design due to balance considerations.

The reason I came across as patronizing is because of what you said - the entire ability being useless just because it happen to not one-shot every entity in the game - is complete nonsense :-)

[n1claren]

Originally posted by Harris:

Originally posted by sidray749:

I've activated the Broken Spirit node that says "Hidden Hand cannot be blocked or parried." and some enemies can still catch Naoe's hand therefore the skill is still useless. Then wtf is the point of this skill anyways???

As far as I can tell, the design intent behind Hidden Hand is to allow you to end combat on demand with the goal of reengaging stealth ASAP. This serves as the ultimate power spike for Naoe as it allows you the eliminate arguably the biggest frustration of the stealth playstyle - the need to deal with open combat when you're inevitably spotted.

With upgraded Hidden Hand, you enter a reality where all those stats you used to care about - vulnerable damage, critical damage, et cetera, are now irrelevant to you. You can simply ignore them and use some other engravings instead. This is huge. No, this is MASSIVE.

Hidden Hand is bananas when paired with the (now fixed) engraving for throwing kunai on assassination. You raised an alarm and see guardians approaching? Hidden Hand one of them, second one gets a kunai to the face - boom, two guardians instantly gone, just like that. Insane!

But you know what Hidden Hand is NOT designed to do? It's not designed to one-shot story targets (contracts ones still work though!). Because - and just think about it for a second - you would simply walk up to a target, ignoring stealth entirely, and press a button. Boom - all semblance of challenge is gone, and whatever new gear they would release in DLC is now irrelevant. Now, where's the fun in that?

And I know what you're thinking right now. "But Harris, how am I supposed to fight targets if Hidden Hand doesn't work on them and other stats are irrelevant to me now? And what do I do when I'm up against more than two enemies at once?"

Enter Shadow Piercer. This ability, with a tanto called Warrior's Garden, deals damage in health segments, namely 2 of them. This is enough to take care of most grunts and unarmored samurai. It's basically like throwing a kunai, only that you don't have to aim with it. Neat.

Still not enough for you? Smoke bombs. Use 'em, love 'em. Imagine you're up against a grunt and a samurai, and your Hidden Hand is on cooldown. Throw a smoke bomb into a grunt, this lets you assassinate him - kunai engraving lets you chain assassinate a nearby samurai. Bananas! Make sure to put "50% to refill a tool on kill" on your trinket for infinite smoke bombs.

Not enough still? Master Assassin Hood turns your ground attack damage into health segments as well, 2 of them. And there are many ways to put an enemy on the ground.

So with targets, you are still reliant on your conventional shenanigans. I'm fond of running assassinations in particular - with Master Assassin Gear, Cerulean Puzzle and during Heighten Senses it lets me remove 10 chunks of health on a running assassination, and from what I've seen no enemy in the game has more than that. But let's assume it has - then I'm gonna use Shadow Piercer, throw a smoke bomb (Animus shop has a tanto with engraving that does this automatically, Hatou tanto IIRC - unfortunately bugged for now), rinse and repeat.

Enemies spot you before you're able to run into them for an assassination? Well there are plenty of remedies to that. Swift Shinobi Hood slows time upon detection AND gives you a couple seconds during which the assassination button is still on screen even though combat technically already started. Don't like that? Use Gennojo. Gennojo died in your run or you did not recruit him? Heighten Senses. Don't like that? Smoke bombs. Or even the engraving that makes your steps silent, provided you're not gonna run head-on.

Have fun, and never talk bad about the best ability in the game again.

bro WHAT? I'm not reading all that, but.... are you ok?

[SLITHER]

"Hidden Hand" perk can be blocked & parried in the same way a combo can be blocked.

In essence, "Broken Spirit" upgrade turn Hidden Hand into an unblockable/unparriable red-flash attack.

You can still be caught.