Bowing NPCs

[Flaccid Snake]

Is it really accurate for every civilian NPC to bow to Yasuke? He's technically a ronin, a masterless samurai, who wears the crest of no one's lord.

[Lion Bird Plate Plate Feather Fe]

On pain of death, peasants are supposed to respect the samurai class as part of their historical culture. Samurai had a legal right at that time period to execute any peasant who disrespect them so bowing was a requirement. However, it was also not outside the realm of possibility of people pretending to be samurai while walking among the common people. So anyone that dressed like samurai can pass off as one until an actual samurai brings their status into question.

Within the context of the game, Yasuke is identified as samurai. Sword, warhorse and armor often symbolize this status because no normal person would be able to afford any of those. Doesn't really matter if Yasuke was lordless or not. If you look rich, you can pass off as samurai. To a lowly peasant, it is better to be safe than dead.

[Shield]

Perhaps not by the strictest definition of the book, but it's pretty realistic, considering.

Find me the Japanese peasant who will go Reddit on a heavily armored warrior who could legally judge, jury, and executioner him for making bad eye contact.

Another samurai could, and they sometimes do call him a ronin (derogatory).

[sh3riff]

To a samurai, yes
Not to Yasuke per se .. its just a game.
It gets even worse if you look at it from the Japanese version of the game, where he is not considered a samurai at all .. he is "samurai" only in English translation.
Which is kinda weird.
So the bow and show of respect to Yasuke makes zero sense.

Diposting pertama kali oleh Lion Bird Plate Plate Feather Fe:

Yasuke is identified as samurai. Sword, warhorse and armor often symbolize this status because no normal person would be able to afford any of those. Doesn't really matter if Yasuke was lordless or not. If you look rich, you can pass off as samurai.

This cannot be further from the truth.
Rich ronin has brought a shame upon him, his family, his clan and you lose all the status, respect etc and would be disowned .. it doesnt matter if you wear armor, horse .. especially if you wear Oda's mark.
Once the word would get out that Oda is dead, any "samurai" wearing Oda's armor, would be target for bullying, robbery and even murder from peasants because there would be no one to care, no punishment against such person.
Ronin attacking civilians even in self defense would be considered bad for him because he has no rights and he was supposed to be targeted and shamed. Like a standard bandit.
But also depends on the time, different time = different results, behaviour. This would be question for some expert how it was around 16th century. You can check wiki for Edo period but .. its just a wiki.

[Simbolic]

Well likely they wouldn't know his whole history and just judge him on his appearance.

[sh3riff]

IRL they wouldnt care as much once they found out ..
Its like me dropping a gold bar on a street and walking away .. first come first served .. its anyones game

[Flaccid Snake]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Simbolic:

Well likely they wouldn't know his whole history and just judge him on his appearance.

Random guards recognize and call out Yasuke by name, the game seems to depict him as some sort of minor celebrity. You'd think most people would know that the big black guy is now a ronin, since everyone knew that the big black guy was the late Nobunaga's samurai

[sh3riff]

Exactly. There werent that many black guys in Japan at that time and foreigners were even forbidden, often hunted and killed because Japanese believe in their purity ..
Even today, though its way better, but if you wanna work certain jobs, you go too much outside allowed color shades, you will be fired, they wont hire you etc ..
Black guy in Japan was like a way too pretty woman in Europe, a witch and was burned alive.

[Shield]

Diposting pertama kali oleh sh3riff:

Exactly. There werent that many black guys in Japan at that time and foreigners were even forbidden, often hunted and killed because Japanese believe in their purity ..
Even today, though its way better, but if you wanna work certain jobs, you go too much outside allowed color shades, you will be fired, they wont hire you etc ..
Black guy in Japan was like a way too pretty woman in Europe, a witch and was burned alive.

Interesting history. You got any accredited sources that they burned black people?

[[XGS]DonkyBoY]

Shouldnt we be able to bow back to them ?

[Byakuren]

"I'm not sure, I think I read it on Reddit, but it's possible that Yasuke's feats are spreading throughout Japan, and that's why both the other soldiers and the peasants bow to him, as if showing that his 'legend' is growing.
In one of my encounters, one of the guards said, 'I know you, you're that samurai, Yasuke, right?'"

[katzenkrimis]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Flaccid Snake:

Is it really accurate for every civilian NPC to bow to Yasuke?

Haven't notice. I rarely use the guy.

When I do, my screen is full of cutscenes.

I only use him in catacombs, where the dead bow to no one.

[Shin Happens]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Shield:

Interesting history. You got any accredited sources that they burned black people?

They didn't! This is nonsense. Which doesn't mean the Japanese of the Edo (Shogunate) period weren't incredibly racist / isolationist.
Tokugawa Ieyasu's grandson eventually had all Japanese of mixed race (there wouldn't have been all that many) expelled from the country (NOT killed though!), they were sent to what is modern day Indonesia which was under Dutch control at the time, among them, or so it is believed, the two children famous English samurai William Adams had with his Japanese wife (Adams had died several years before), no records of them in Japan exist after the edict that outlawed Christianity entirely, expelled all Portuguese/Jesuits, greatly restricted trade (only with the Dutch East India company and China, and even then only select ports were accessible to them, they could not enter the country) and made it illegal on punishment of death for any Japanese to leave the country (peasants weren't allowed to leave their home town/region anyway).

But as isolationist and xenophobic the Japanese were at the time, they did not indiscriminately burn people at the stake. And Yasuke himself was not killed either, he was returned to the Jesuits after Nobunaga's death and after that no record of him exists anymore. So Shadows is of course completely made up nonsense regarding Yasuke, but he certainly - or any of the other very few black people in Japan - was not burnt on the stake.

And after 1635, when the edict was passed, zero black people would have been in Japan anyway. Literally.

[Kain]

I think a lot of people think he sill is a Samurai by their dialogue. Having said that, realistically I think it would be more common for them to stare at a random black man.

[Shin Happens]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Kain:

I think a lot of people think he sill is a Samurai by their dialogue. Having said that, realistically I think it would be more common for them to stare at a random black man.

In reality Yasuke had been returned to the Jesuits by this time as their property ;-) Regarding samurai, fail to show them the proper respect and your life was forfeit.

But anyone to whom it would matter knew Nobunaga was dead, and it would have made Yasuke, if he had not been returned to the Jesuits, a ronin.

You see, it was expected of ANY samurai who lost his master (in war etc) to commit seppuku aka suicide. This does not cover natural death, the samurai would then of course serve the heir of their lord, we talk about samurai who lose their daimyo in battle or because of an attempt on their life etc.
Failing to heed this code of honour meant you were entirely and utterly disgraced. At best a ronin could hope to become a mercenary or bodyguard for wealthy merchants. No actual daimyo or samurai would have dealings with them though, they were utterly disgraced.

That Yasuke failed to commit seppuku after Nobunaga's death in battle would have put great shame on him, disgraced him in the eyes of other samurai and feudal lords. No one would have had dealings with him after that. Shadows is nothing but wild fantasy when it comes to Yasuke. They don't even try to be grounded in reality.

The treatment of ronin only changed decades after the events of the game, when samurai/ronin were eventually allowed to seek the service of a new daimyo. Before then changing masters without explicit consent of the daimyo (or after the unnatural death of the daimyo) was impossible. At one time Japan had 500k ronin, as a direct result of the unification efforts. They started an uprising but were ultimately defeated.

[The Former]

As others have said, yes, it's realistic to bow to a samurai when they walk by. You could be legally beheaded on the spot if you didn't. (Not that you automatically would be. But you could be.) Yasuke, whether samurai or not, looks the part in the game, so it's appropriate for everyone to bow when he comes by.

Diposting pertama kali oleh Shin Happens:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Kain:

I think a lot of people think he sill is a Samurai by their dialogue. Having said that, realistically I think it would be more common for them to stare at a random black man.

In reality Yasuke had been returned to the Jesuits by this time as their property ;-) Regarding samurai, fail to show them the proper respect and your life was forfeit.

But anyone to whom it would matter knew Nobunaga was dead, and it would have made Yasuke, if he had not been returned to the Jesuits, a ronin.

You see, it was expected of ANY samurai who lost his master (in war etc) to commit sepuku aka suicide. This does not cover natural death, the samurai would then of course serve the heir of their lord, we talk about samurai who lose their daimyo in battle or because of an attempt on their life etc.
Failing to heed this code of honour meant you were entirely and utterly disgraced. At best a ronin could hope to become a mercenary or bodyguard for wealthy merchants. No actual daimyo or samurai would have dealings with them though, they were utterly disgraced.

That Yasuke failed to commit sepuku after Nobunaga's death in battle would have put great shame on him, disgraced him in the eyes of other samurai and feudal lords. No one would have had dealings with him after that. Shadows is nothing but wild fantasy when it comes to Yasuke. They don't even try to be grounded in reality.

The treatment of ronin only changed decades after the events of the game, when samurai/ronin were eventually allowed to seek the service of a new daimyo. Before then changing masters without explicit consent of the daimyo (or after the unnatural death of the daimyo) was impossible. At one time Japan had 500k ronin, as a direct result of the unification efforts. They started an uprising but were ultimately defeated.

Seppuku is highly overstated in media today. In reality it was something that was done by some and gained a samurai honor in death, but there were plenty who didn't. Motoyasu Matsudaira failed to commit seppuku after Imagawa was killed and he went on to become the unifier of Japan, Tokugawa Ieyasu. Kuroda Kanbei, Yamanaka Shikanosuke, Sanada Masayuki...

There were plenty in the era who either retreated or surrendered, even changed sides afterwards, without committing seppuku and weren't ostracized for it. Kanbei became one of Toyotomi Hideyoshi's top strategists when people expected him to commit seppuku for shame after failing in diplomacy, coming out of imprisonment crippled and weak, and being suspected of disloyalty.

I think if Kanbei could get away with it, a foreigner could. Yasuke might have won respect if he'd done it, but I doubt anyone expected him to.