Sales prediction for AC Shadows?

[Tamamushiiro]

How many copies do you think Shadows will sell?

I think Shadows will sell over 13 million copies, as much as Ghost of Tsushima.

[Ryu]

AnihilatoR の投稿を引用：

There's a lot of misinformation being currently told about this character only to support Thoma Lockley books and now the game. You find out more information if you look for japanese sources instead of western publishers who don't even give sources.

https://japanese-with-naoto.com/2024/05/29/disappointment-in-thomas-lockley/

https://www.sankei.com/article/20240724-TY6VB2TKQZDRLKU6TEOSXTRLSU/

There's quite a few bad things about this issue, in case anyone wants to know more, should try using google translator if don't know nihongo.

Yeah that's why I'm using Luis Frois' document instead of Lockley's book, I'm aware it's basically fanfiction that the guy tried to pass off as some kind of historical record. I believe Lockley's book was even saying some ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ about african slaves being brought to Japan being a common thing over there, which makes little sense considering Yasuke stood out in the first place precisely because of how uncommon it was.

Only issue here is that Japan's history is well know and spread out in the media, like anime, movies or series. Most AC main characters were always natives or had strong ties to the setting, though we do have the kunoichi, the other seems like a mistake instead. Even if it was a portuguese assassin or some templar working for the church, walking freely and killing locals wouldn't be well receive either by any locals, though it would work well as antagonist, not a playable character.

The kunoichi is local and very likely the main protagonist of the duo, considering she's the assassin with the hidden blades and all, so it's not like they're completely ignoring the native main character part. I'm inclined to believe the story will revolve around her perspective as a native contrasting with Yasuke's as a foreigner who was forcibly taken to Japan and had to adapt to the land's culture and politics. I'm not sure how recent AC games work since the last one I actually played was Black Flag, but in those older games you couldn't just go around killing civilians, the game would disconnect you after killing a certain number of them in a row.

[Maschendraht]

AnihilatoR の投稿を引用：

Maschendraht の投稿を引用：

But isn't supporting Christianity to oppose buddhist influence precisly the kind of pragmatism you'd expect from someone who uses Yasuke as a "retainer", given that Yasuke is considered to be loyal and a force of power? Notice, the treshold for this idea is not if it was common practice. The question is: is it reasonably possible that this one person who we know to be an opportunist would do it?

That's called politics, when you have some power to oppose another, while controlling your own people and policies. Known as a brilliant tactician but also cruel warlord, Nobunaga killed his younger brother and became the head of the Oda clan, winning various battles, controlling more than half of Honshu. Very paranoic, killed many who served under him, while also keeping his retainers in check. Many daimyos were in his hands exactly because he was unpredictable. Did you knew that he was responsible for killing the people who were spies, from Iga province, because he thought they would be a liability of him becoming shogun? This is also documented.

My point is, regardless of Yasuke being relevant or not, even if it was some random european, I hardly think Nobunaga would trust a foreign to be his retainer. More likely, a useful tool of sorts, distracting his political enemies to lower their guard around him. That's why I see this character completely out of place, it looks more like some random idea that was pushed, due to that fake background that Ubisoft didn't care to check it out first. It's disrespectful towards Japan's rich history and doesn't fit at all during this period.

But isn't hiring a retainer who is both strong and dependent on you also politics? I think I already explained why it might make even more sense to hire a foreigner, because they don't have relations of their own to the locals. He won't leave you since he doesn't know anybody else to go to. He won't disobey your orders when he feels conflicted about killing people he's related to in some way. Because he's not. And he won't stabb you in the back when he turns out to be the secret great-grandnephew of your enemy. Because he's not. Especially if Nobunaga is paranoid it can make sense to use a retainer with a foreign background for special tasks.

Most AC main characters were always natives or had strong ties to the setting

Edward Kenway from AC Blackflag was from Great Britain while the game is set in the Caribbean. Kassandra is born in Sparta but raised somewhat Athenian. And that's in a time when Greece as a country wasn't a thing and those city states were really important when it came to identity. Eivor is from Norway and AC Valhalla is set in England. Sounds trivial today, but the conflict between the Danish, Norwegians and Anglo-Saxons was a major issue. Which is even reflected in the game.

Also, we already have a native playable character for AC Shadows, too.

[AnihilatoR]

Ryu の投稿を引用：

Yeah that's why I'm using Luis Frois' document instead of Lockley's book, I'm aware it's basically fanfiction that the guy tried to pass off as some kind of historical record. I believe Lockley's book was even saying some ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ about african slaves being brought to Japan being a common thing over there, which makes little sense considering Yasuke stood out in the first place precisely because of how uncommon it was.

Did you actually look into the book? It's all fabricated, as very little is reported about Yasuke, like I said, look into japanese documents and analysis. They're all baffled by the false information being spread about the character in the west. Also, wikipedia is not reliable, even more in this case, which was edited by Thomas Lockley himself since 2015 if you look into the records.

Maschendraht の投稿を引用：

Edward Kenway from AC Blackflag was from Great Britain while the game is set in the Caribbean. Kassandra is born in Sparta but raised somewhat Athenian. And that's in a time when Greece as a country wasn't a thing and those city states were really important when it came to identity. Eivor is from Norway and AC Valhalla is set in England. Sounds trivial today, but the conflict between the Danish, Norwegians and Anglo-Saxons was a major issue. Which is even reflected in the game.

Also, we already have a native playable character for AC Shadows, too.

You just proved my point, All these are related, since many europeans were also in the Caribbean working as privateers, Sparta and Athens had trade deals as they were quite close so people would often travel by land, danish, norwegian and finnish men did raid England during the viking invasions, having settlements there.

All about Yasuke is false information being currently spread out, he wasn't proeminent neither important to the point of being main character, neither would be any foreign during the Sengoku period under Nobunaga. it's all narratives constructed under false pretext.

There's a series called Shogum. There's this english privateer which is only being used due to his knowledge in handling cannons, though the lord who takes care of him is actually a reasonable person, Oda Nobunaga was not like that if you see all that's reported about his personality and actions, but you could use that as a way to rewrite history, making others believe that narrative. History revisionism without facts is just bad faith.

If this game was anime themed, they could make in anyway it wouldn't matter, even have those hip hop songs when Yasuke was about to fight, though it would be of very bad taste, like all that's currently done.

Right now, I'm just waiting the game release without any expectation, mostly because I already don't like how the storyline is being pushed. I don't mind to be wrong, but I do see Japan's history being disrespected.

[Maschendraht]

AnihilatoR の投稿を引用：

All these are related, since many europeans were also in the Caribbean working as privateers, Sparta and Athens had trade deals as they were quite close so people would often travel by land, danish, norwegian and finnish men did raid England during the viking invasions, having settlements there.

And the Portugese did trade slaves and Nobunaga was a real person and so was Yasuke. Wether he was a Saumrai or not, he did exist, was associated to Nobugana and "carried his weapons", whatever that means.

EDIT: and btw, Sparta and Athens were enemies at the time the events of AC Odyssey happen. They fought a long and brutal war against each other and they were ideological aversaries as well, with Athens being a democracy and Sparta being a monarchy.

All about Yasuke is false information being currently spread out, he wasn't proeminent neither important to the point of being main character

It's not relevant wether or not the real Yasuke was prominent. We're talking about historic fiction, not a documentary. The premise of the AC Universe is that the Assassin Bortherhood works in the shadows and the Templars rewrite history to hide the work of the Assassins.

I mean, in the AC lore Hitler was influenced or controlled by the Templars and at the end of WWII they had planned to bring him out of Berlin, probably to have him live in South America under false identity. They even burned a fake body to let everyone believe Hitler has committed suicide. However, the Assassin Brotherhood killed Hitler the moment he left his bunker.

But Nobunaga having Yasuke as a Samurai for pragmatic reasons is too much of a stretch?

[Ryu]

AnihilatoR の投稿を引用：

Did you actually look into the book? It's all fabricated, as very little is reported about Yasuke, like I said, look into japanese documents and analysis. They're all baffled by the false information being spread about the character in the west. Also, wikipedia is not reliable, even more in this case, which was edited by Thomas Lockley himself since 2015 if you look into the records.

I did, that's why I ignore Lockley's book when it comes to discussing the historical Yasuke, the book is relatively harmless as a work of fiction, but him trying to pass it as a historical record was ridiculous and it's good that he was exposed for it. However, Luis Frois was a portuguese jesuit who was present in Japan during the Sengoku Period and wrote a lot of letters detailing his experiences there, a handful of them talked about Yasuke. That's what I'm basing my info on, his writings indicate that Nobunaga treated Yasuke well and kept him close as a bodyguard and sword bearer, which doesn't mean he was necessarily made a samurai, but it seems to have popularized him being portrayed as a samurai in works of fiction such as books, anime, manga, games and whatnot.

[AnihilatoR]

Maschendraht の投稿を引用：

And the Portugese did trade slaves and Nobunaga was a real person and so was Yasuke. Wether he was a Saumrai or not, he did exist, was associated to Nobugana and "carried his weapons", whatever that means.

It's not relevant wether or not the real Yasuke was prominent. We're talking about historic fiction, not a documentary. The premise of the AC Universe is that the Assassin Bortherhood works in the shadows and the Templars rewrite history to hide the work of the Assassins.

I mean, in the AC lore Hitler was influenced or controlled by the Templars and at the end of WWII they had planned to bring him out of Berlin, probably to have him live in South America under false identity. They even burned a fake body to let everyone believe Hitler has committed suicide. However, the Assassin Brotherhood killed Hitler the moment he left his bunker.

But Nobunaga having Yasuke as a Samurai for pragmatic reasons is too much of a stretch?

Yeah, though portuguese went to do nanban trading, japanese didn't trade with slaves, though you could say that about pirates. You could have a point there, I agree.

You see, Oda Nobunaga is very famous because of his achievements, even though he was cruel. If any foreign played such important part by his side, we would have seen way more about him in media, prior to recent events due to Thomas Lockley narrative and Ubisoft pushing this without checking facts.

They even apologized because, at first, the game was about real facts, though when revealed that it was all but fabricated lies, decided to go back and say that's all fictional. Now you have many people thinking that some foreign was big deal, being spread in media all over the west. If it was never discovered or reported against, we wouldn't see this backlash either. Disrespecting history to support a narrative, is just bad faith, that's my point here.

EDIT: and btw, Sparta and Athens were enemies at the time the events of AC Odyssey happen. They fought a long and brutal war against each other and they were ideological aversaries as well, with Athens being a democracy and Sparta being a monarchy.

Sparta and Athens being enemies doesn't equate that every person was seen as enemy, it's not absolute. There's always local pedlars, merchants and regular people traveling even during war time, wherever they may be, for own livelihood. It's not an argument though.

Hey, thanks for having a decent debate about something that I do find interesting, glad that you're not like others who are quick to label anyone as hater or bigot, just because they don't agree with you.

No matter what, being respectful is everything when looking to have a decent dialogue. We might not agree or reach a point, but I see what you mean anyway and do respect your opinion regards this matter. Thanks again.

[AnihilatoR]

Ryu の投稿を引用：

I did, that's why I ignore Lockley's book when it comes to discussing the historical Yasuke, the book is relatively harmless as a work of fiction, but him trying to pass it as a historical record was ridiculous and it's good that he was exposed for it. However, Luis Frois was a portuguese jesuit who was present in Japan during the Sengoku Period and wrote a lot of letters detailing his experiences there, a handful of them talked about Yasuke. That's what I'm basing my info on, his writings indicate that Nobunaga treated Yasuke well and kept him close as a bodyguard and sword bearer, which doesn't mean he was necessarily made a samurai, but it seems to have popularized him being portrayed as a samurai in works of fiction such as books, anime, manga, games and whatnot.

"The First European Description of Japan, 1585: A Critical English-Language Edition of Striking Contrasts in the Customs of Europe and Japan by Luis Frois, S.J."

This book is very complete, I read for a while but there's nothing about Yasuke or any reference to him either. Can you share your resource and where do you read it?

PS: I love history, that's why I'm so intrigued by this case, which was proved to be all fabricated, but if there's any thing to contradict, I would gladly look into while I'm on vacation!

[Ryu]

AnihilatoR の投稿を引用：

"The First European Description of Japan, 1585: A Critical English-Language Edition of Striking Contrasts in the Customs of Europe and Japan by Luis Frois, S.J."

This book is very complete, I read for a while but there's nothing about Yasuke or any reference to him either. Can you share your resource and where do you read it?

PS: I love history, that's why I'm so intrigued by this case, which was proved to be all fabricated, but if there's any thing to contradict, I would gladly look into while I'm on vacation!

The one I'm referring to is called They Came to Japan: An Anthology of European Reports on Japan, among writings from various europeans who were in Japan at some point from 1543 to 1640 are the translated letters from Frois. It's not really focused on Yasuke or anything, but there are mentions and remarks about him and his relationship with Nobunaga in some of them, as well as a confirmation that he didn't die at the Honnoji incident because of one letter where Frois thanks God that Yasuke did not lose his life when Mitsuhide rebelled, though that was the last mention of him, it's not 100% certain what happened to Yasuke after that.

[AnihilatoR]

Ryu の投稿を引用：

The one I'm referring to is called They Came to Japan: An Anthology of European Reports on Japan, among writings from various europeans who were in Japan at some point from 1543 to 1640 are the translated letters from Frois. It's not really focused on Yasuke or anything, but there are mentions and remarks about him and his relationship with Nobunaga in some of them, as well as a confirmation that he didn't die at the Honnoji incident because of one letter where Frois thanks God that Yasuke did not lose his life when Mitsuhide rebelled, though that was the last mention of him, it's not 100% certain what happened to Yasuke after that.

Yeah, they talk about a slave drummer exibihited to the people's curiosity. He was also brought to Nobunaga's presence and retainers, being strip and obliged to wash to prove that the color of his skin was real. Besides that, it's only reported that he was used as servant, nothing more than that actually. If you know how Nobunaga was as a person, someone who actually killed a servant girl just because she droped foam in the tatami, I hardly believe he would care for any foreign. Now western media try to paint him as more important than he actually was, which is entirely my point here.

[VDRSK]

I was looking at keysites i've noted that alot of them are sold out of gold and ultimate edition.

Valhalla sold 20 million copies and everyone i heard talk about it said it was boring and dull. So it's probably a FIFA situation where it's kind of just full steam ahead because it's an assassin's creed game.

ELDEN RING has sold around 30 million and that had a ton of buzz around it, it felt like you couldn't go anywhere without someone mentioning it.

I look forward to getting it, the worst part is that it's right next to Monster Hunter Wilds.

[werwolfgaming]

VDRSK の投稿を引用：

I was looking at keysites i've noted that alot of them are sold out of gold and ultimate edition.

Valhalla sold 20 million copies and everyone i heard talk about it said it was boring and dull. So it's probably a FIFA situation where it's kind of just full steam ahead because it's an assassin's creed game.

ELDEN RING has sold around 30 million and that had a ton of buzz around it, it felt like you couldn't go anywhere without someone mentioning it.

I look forward to getting it, the worst part is that it's right next to Monster Hunter Wilds.

Uhhh mate gold and ultimate editions are cancelled they announced that months ago that standard will be the only edition offered to purchase

[H.U.N.K]

Tamamushiiro の投稿を引用：

I think Shadows will sell over 13 million copies, as much as Ghost of Tsushima.

What do you think?

I think your dreaming MAX 3mil and that's only because of the AC name attached and the autobots who will buy anything from AC and I dont use that derogatory as I own them all I loved AC but I'm not going near this one after the crap UBI has pulled.

[VDRSK]

werwolfgaming の投稿を引用：

Uhhh mate gold and ultimate editions are cancelled they announced that months ago that standard will be the only edition offered to purchase

Oh admittedly I don't keep up with the news, thank you. That is pretty strange.

[Scorched]

1 mill

[Radgol]

This ♥♥♥♥ is not selling nowhere near 10 mil