Yasuke was not a great samurai warrior, like some like to beleive.

[Zombie Enthusiast]

He was kept around by Oda Nobunaga as an oddity, since seeing a black person back then was just something else to him. Nobunaga was a man that had an interest in anything that was unique and foreign. Hell, he kept the skull of Azai Nagamasa, which he plated in gold, which he loved to show off to others, even though they thought it was tacky. When he was first introduced to Yasuke by Italian Jesuit Allesandro Valignano, the dude thought his skin was painted dark as some sort of trick by Jesuit. Nobunaga had Yasuke stripped down and bathed right there, and when he realized that was his actual skin color, he was enthralled by it. He couldn't help but be enthused by this revelation.

At some point in time, he went in service to Nobunaga as a sword bearer, but most sword bearers back then never really went into battle. There is no historical evidence that he fought in any battles. There is also no historical evidence that he learned to speak Japanese or become greatly respected. There is no evidence that Nobunaga trained Yasuke to be a great warrior, since the two only knew each other for a few months before Nobunaga died. But, there is evidence that his top generals hated Yasuke, with them thinking he was nothing more than a wild beast.

It's just a myth. There was no great black samurai. Yasuke was just kept around as some sort of pet for Nobunaga to show off to others during the little time that the two spent with each other.

[Voland]

Originally posted by szfele:

Yasuke, a retainer with the sole achievement of

being close to Nobunaga, to the point that it led to rumors that Yasuke would become next lord. which makes him interesting choice for AC story that usally revolve around intrigues. in this case around of infamous Oda Nobunaga.

ofc they could use some fictional generic local instead, but i dont get how it would be more interesting. not to mention, we have TONS of games with japanese swordsman, already.

[Noxbi 🌈]

Originally posted by pope henry viii:

The motivation is the same - attack one race, prioritise the preferred race, as a method of aggressive propaganda. Thomas Lockley and Ubisoft fantasise about replacing the Japanese with black Africans, and it shows in their work.

I can't see how? It's just ONE character. Could you please explain this to someone that doesn't really see the race as a problem? I would appreciate it. Again, Yasuke existed, that's only certain fact, it's okay to play with the story. That's the beauty of creativity.

Originally posted by pope henry viii:

Did Ubisoft wheel out any credentialled hacks in support of these sorts of ideas? Any 'experts' who had made (and stood to make more of) a fortune in advancing these sorts of stories as actual, true history?

They definitely read some sources, debunked or not, it all works well as a part of their fictional world (inspired by our history). Man, their main premise is inspired by Erich von Däniken's works. Anyone with brain cell can see that Assassin's Creed is not and never was a history learning tool.

Originally posted by pope henry viii:

Originally posted by Noxbi 🌈:

It's not a "we wuz kangz" kind of BS.

I think it's hard to conclude that it's not an attempt to pander to that.

Again, could you please ELI5, how?

Originally posted by pope henry viii:

Originally posted by Noxbi 🌈:

he one that annoys me to this day is choosing Borgias as onedimentional villains. Like, why? But I understand that it works for a narrative in a video game,

So perhaps imagine if Ubi had officially worked with a 'historian' who made no bones about his genuine, professional belief that the Borgias were devil-worshipping kitten-kicking baby-eaters. Would you not recognise that this is dangerous and harmful?

Nope, I would not. The interpretation they have chosen is evidently inspired by the works of Francisco Morales Padrón for example. History is a subject of science, there are and always will be different experts providing different ways of conducting research, forming conclusions, opinions, interpretations etc. We are talking about a fiction inspired by history, Shadows doesn't differ from previous games in that sense.

[pope henry viii]

I'll cut to the chase:

When you make up a fantastical story about mystic cabal secretly being behind the scenes through all through time and focus chiefly on entirely fictional characters with actual historical figures used mostly to provide background or context - that can be fun and interesting.

When you make up a story about how an African was really one of the most powerful and important men in Japan, market the character as being based on a real historical figure, AND at the same time promote the public profile of a man who insists that the story is literally true and not a fantasy and who also uses his professional position to lend credence to his claims - that is a hateful racial attack against the Japanese.

[Noxbi 🌈]

Originally posted by pope henry viii:

When you make up a story about how an African was really one of the most powerful and important men in Japan

That's not the story of Assassin's Creed Shadows. None of the promotional material mentions Yasuke as being powerful and important. I mean, powerful in a physical sense yes, but big black man working "in the shadows to serve the light" doesn't scream important to me. Naoe seems much more important from what I can gather.

As I said in a different topic, the amount of misinformation surrounding anything Ubisoft is hilarious. Discussing an entire story basing on assumptions from some boring trailers is quite a feat though.

[[Tatsu]]

bro its fiction does it matter? it uses loosely existing people to tell a story they wanna tell with those characters backgrounds existing merely as notes

[pope henry viii]

Originally posted by Noxbi 🌈:

Originally posted by pope henry viii:

When you make up a story about how an African was really one of the most powerful and important men in Japan

That's not the story of Assassin's Creed Shadows. None of the promotional material mentions Yasuke as being powerful and important. I mean, powerful in a physical sense yes, but big black man working "in the shadows to serve the light" doesn't scream important to me. Naoe seems much more important from what I can gather.

As I said in a different topic, the amount of misinformation surrounding anything Ubisoft is hilarious. Discussing an entire story basing on assumptions from some boring trailers is quite a feat though.

I suppose you will have to wait for release to prove me right, though it is pretty obvious that while you've been polite you are inclined to make excuses for the malefactors here, so I don't expect you'll ackowledge what they're doing even when it's right in front of you.

If you are interested in understanding exactly what has been going on behind the scenes, read up on Thomas Lockley (in Japanese, if you can).

[Merzbow]

Not reading all that but I would like you to consider this is a video game, not reality

[Segert]

Yasuke was a attendant of a portugeese priest. That accompanied nobunaga for a limited time. It would have been a cultural no no. For him to wear even a sword. Let alone samurai armour and the nobudaga crest. Also if you run arround like in AC. All civilians would be schocked to see you. Because well. They never seen somoene like him. Bit like what happened in europe at the end of the 19th century when some people of colour came there.
not to mention. Yasuke is only mentioned in one historical document...

Its not racism. Its you are part of your own group. Dont know anything else than that group. And suddenly someone very different from any individual from your group. Appears. Basically the same thing happens if a white person goes to remote places in india or afrika.

To not make the samurai Japanese is very insulting to Japanese people. Samurai where their nobles. their noble bloodlines ect. I think if they switched it around. Made the samurai a woman en the ninja yasuke. That would culturally more exceptable. As there where stories of females donning samurai Armour. And who a ninja is? Doesnt really matter its a ninja. You don't need to know his or hers identity. Thats their point.

I hate that people make this about racism. Its not. Its about respecting a culture how it historically is. Them not doing that and pushing their own world view into anothers cultural history. Is what i would say is racism. As you don't respect that culture. And view it as inferior to your own.

[Noxbi 🌈]

Originally posted by pope henry viii:

If you are interested in understanding exactly what has been going on behind the scenes, read up on Thomas Lockley (in Japanese, if you can).

I will, thank you

[i-dot]

Originally posted by !X_Not_So_Jolly_Pepe_X!:

Yasuke was not a great samurai warrior

Yasuke was a Giant Samurai 6.5 feets high

[sigina ✝]

Originally posted by Segert:

Yasuke was a attendant of a portugeese priest. That accompanied nobunaga for a limited time. It would have been a cultural no no. For him to wear even a sword. Let alone samurai armour and the nobudaga crest. Also if you run arround like in AC. All civilians would be schocked to see you. Because well. They never seen somoene like him. Bit like what happened in europe at the end of the 19th century when some people of colour came there.
not to mention. Yasuke is only mentioned in one historical document...

Its not racism. Its you are part of your own group. Dont know anything else than that group. And suddenly someone very different from any individual from your group. Appears. Basically the same thing happens if a white person goes to remote places in india or afrika.

To not make the samurai Japanese is very insulting to Japanese people. Samurai where their nobles. their noble bloodlines ect. I think if they switched it around. Made the samurai a woman en the ninja yasuke. That would culturally more exceptable. As there where stories of females donning samurai Armour. And who a ninja is? Doesnt really matter its a ninja. You don't need to know his or hers identity. Thats their point.

I hate that people make this about racism. Its not. Its about respecting a culture how it historically is. Them not doing that and pushing their own world view into anothers cultural history. Is what i would say is racism. As you don't respect that culture. And view it as inferior to your own.

Yasuke wasn’t just an attendant. Nobunaga gave him a position, a house, and a ceremonial sword, which shows he was treated as more than a servant. Nobunaga wasn’t bound by strict traditions and valued merit, so Yasuke wearing armor or being part of his household wasn’t a "cultural no-no."

Also, Yasuke is mentioned in more than one historical document, like the Shinchōkōki. Saying his story disrespects Japanese culture ignores Nobunaga’s own actions. Nobunaga wasn’t about preserving tradition, he broke norms all the time.

[Segert]

Originally posted by CiggyPop ✝:

Originally posted by Segert:

Yasuke was a attendant of a portugeese priest. That accompanied nobunaga for a limited time. It would have been a cultural no no. For him to wear even a sword. Let alone samurai armour and the nobudaga crest. Also if you run arround like in AC. All civilians would be schocked to see you. Because well. They never seen somoene like him. Bit like what happened in europe at the end of the 19th century when some people of colour came there.
not to mention. Yasuke is only mentioned in one historical document...

Its not racism. Its you are part of your own group. Dont know anything else than that group. And suddenly someone very different from any individual from your group. Appears. Basically the same thing happens if a white person goes to remote places in india or afrika.

To not make the samurai Japanese is very insulting to Japanese people. Samurai where their nobles. their noble bloodlines ect. I think if they switched it around. Made the samurai a woman en the ninja yasuke. That would culturally more exceptable. As there where stories of females donning samurai Armour. And who a ninja is? Doesnt really matter its a ninja. You don't need to know his or hers identity. Thats their point.

I hate that people make this about racism. Its not. Its about respecting a culture how it historically is. Them not doing that and pushing their own world view into anothers cultural history. Is what i would say is racism. As you don't respect that culture. And view it as inferior to your own.

Yasuke wasn’t just an attendant. Nobunaga gave him a position, a house, and a ceremonial sword, which shows he was treated as more than a servant. Nobunaga wasn’t bound by strict traditions and valued merit, so Yasuke wearing armor or being part of his household wasn’t a "cultural no-no."

Also, Yasuke is mentioned in more than one historical document, like the Shinchōkōki. Saying his story disrespects Japanese culture ignores Nobunaga’s own actions. Nobunaga wasn’t about preserving tradition, he broke norms all the time.

Sources? Dont make stuff up without sources. Yasuke was a attendant of a Portuguese Jesuit priest named Alessandro Valignano. He was probably from around Mozambique. There is only ONE record of him. And according to that he arrived in 1581 served nobunaga a while in company with the priest. Then returned to the Jesuit in 1582. After that nothing is heard from him again. The records also states. He carried his master swords. AKA he was a servant.

HE WAS NEVER A SAMURAI. Samurai are a noble class that not everyone with a sword can become. The ashigaru that beared swords. Where just peasants. Commoners. With swords. Fought in the rank and file. Being given a sword even just to carry it. Doesnt make you a noble or a samurai.

Its historical revisionism. And it is disrespectfull to the culture of the japanese.

[sigina ✝]

Originally posted by Segert:

Originally posted by CiggyPop ✝:

Yasuke wasn’t just an attendant. Nobunaga gave him a position, a house, and a ceremonial sword, which shows he was treated as more than a servant. Nobunaga wasn’t bound by strict traditions and valued merit, so Yasuke wearing armor or being part of his household wasn’t a "cultural no-no."

Also, Yasuke is mentioned in more than one historical document, like the Shinchōkōki. Saying his story disrespects Japanese culture ignores Nobunaga’s own actions. Nobunaga wasn’t about preserving tradition, he broke norms all the time.

Sources? Dont make stuff up without sources. Yasuke was a attendant of a Portuguese Jesuit priest named Alessandro Valignano. He was probably from around Mozambique. There is only ONE record of him. And according to that he arrived in 1581 served nobunaga a while in company with the priest. Then returned to the Jesuit in 1582. After that nothing is heard from him again. The records also states. He carried his master swords. AKA he was a servant.

HE WAS NEVER A SAMURAI. Samurai are a noble class that not everyone with a sword can become. The ashigaru that beared swords. Where just peasants. Commoners. With swords. Fought in the rank and file. Being given a sword even just to carry it. Doesnt make you a noble or a samurai.

Its historical revisionism. And it is disrespectfull to the culture of the japanese.

There are multiple sources about Yasuke. The Shinchokoki mentions him, as does the Jesuit missionary Luis Frois in his letters. Historical texts agree he was brought to Japan by Valignano and entered Nobunaga's service in 1581. Nobunaga gave him a sword and treated him as a member of the Samurai hierachy, which was more than just a servant role. Nobunaga’s interest in Yasuke was unusual, but Nobunaga himself was not typical. He broke traditions, valued talent over birth, and gave Yasuke a unique place in his circle.

Samurai were not strictly defined by noble blood. Ashigaru could rise in rank, and exceptions like Yasuke were possible under someone like Nobunaga. Saying Yasuke was not a samurai just because he did not fit the usual mold ignores the flexibility Nobunaga showed.

This is not revisionism. It is recognizing Yasuke’s unusual but documented role in history. Calling it disrespectful to Japanese culture ignores that Nobunaga himself gave Yasuke this place, which reflects Nobunaga’s choices, not modern agendas.

[sigina ✝]

It’s important to remember that Samurai wasn’t just one role or rank.

[Segert]

Originally posted by CiggyPop ✝:

It’s important to remember that Samurai wasn’t just one role or rank.

yes and no. It was the name of the noble warrior class. Equivalent to a medieval knight, Within that class there are multiple variations. But you cant just decide. Oh that person is a samurai right now. That doesnt work.