Why does everyone seem to think tank requires a taunt

[B〄F Altonator]

I play a tank character that provides defensive bonuses to the team.
I provide some damage reduction, reduce the enemies damage and resistance, provide a little bit of healing, even stun multiple enemies at once.

A tank is supposed to be a beacon of defence, that's the whole point.
I can see why a taunt might help, but that's just not the kind of tank i play.
People need to learn that there's multiple ways of playing a class.

If anyone wants some advice on how to play a team tank rather than a taunt tank just let me know, i'll be happy to help.

[Wardaddy]

im also a tank and lemme tell you, it may not matter much in normal dungeons but once you go beyond that you see people with specialized builds, damage dealers with min/max stats, glass canons, dealing max damage. now it doesnt really matter how much you buff them or make the enemy deal less damage because buffs or not they will die if theyre being focused on because of their low HP and resistances, so as a tank you need to be that *beacon* as you yourself put it and take all the heat if they are to do what theyre supposed to and that can only be done by taunting heavy mobs and bosses, grouping them up for AoEs. so when you dont play like this, bosses run around chasing healer and DDs, preventing them from dealing damage or healing.

[Vazkulator]

Originally posted by B〄F Altonator:

I play a tank character that provides defensive bonuses to the team.
I provide some damage reduction, reduce the enemies damage and resistance, provide a little bit of healing, even stun multiple enemies at once.

A tank is supposed to be a beacon of defence, that's the whole point.
I can see why a taunt might help, but that's just not the kind of tank i play.
People need to learn that there's multiple ways of playing a class.

If anyone wants some advice on how to play a team tank rather than a taunt tank just let me know, i'll be happy to help.

heres a bit of feedback of a longterm tank main, been a longterm years of experience in raid leading and guild leading of dedicated guilds that had maybe 4-6 occations of people not attending our weekly raids which id say is to be considered to be a guild thats very serious and respect their team where several people helped financing our raid foods, potions, gems and enchants.

I played a warrior protection tank since early launch of wrath in wow, the first thing about threat and holding aggro factors into the game with a far greater importance the more harder the difficulty is considered to be in a game in general.

Lets first try and break down speedrunning and the aspect of what "LOS PULL" is since extremely few knows what it is and why its something to be encouraged and ive seen a couple of hundreds of +800 cp players whos completely confused when its being done.

LoS pulling is to be used in order for ranged mobs to lose their maximum range needed to be capable of casting ranged attacks at a player, if theyre outside the maximum distance needed to cast/shoot projectiles at a player then theyll start walking.

this in its turn will allow the tank to (STACK) ranged enemies on top of the melee ones to make as much damage as possible out of aoe attacks and its turn greatly reduce the amount of time it needs to clear a dungeon where a large portions of these dungeons available in ESO has "PHASES" or "Invisible" walls where enemy units simply just freezes and their waypathing just becomes broken because they can no longer find a path to reach the players and its turn just makes them go back to their spawn location without aggro.

Now lets talk about the more general sense of tanking and why it matters or may not in ESO;
Tanking is only needed in general when the enemies will actually "KILL" the other players hence the role named "TANK" which is supposed to be there to keep the team alive.

This however is generally not needed (AT ALL)note, AT ALL! in [IN ESO] because a team of max cp players can stroll through a vet dungeon with only a team of (DAMAGE DEALERS) yes its 100% factual information and if anyone dont believe it then youre bad and lack an immense portion of knowledge in this game.

If a tank is not needed then aggro is not needed, its so painfully simple to understand this but if you want a game that is more focused on teamplay and respect the raiding guild scene of this game and to keep veteran players in their games then Make each respective role VALUABLE.

a dps shouldnt be able to pocket heal through an entire dungeon anda dps shouldnt be .. ehh, pocket tank (oh god, i almost felt like i lost 99% of my IQ writing that) well tank out large portions of damage through a fight or an entire dungeon and get away with it alive.

this is just the point where the game is broken or should feel broken to a veteran player and has them consider why they should keep playing or feel dissapointed in all the time theyve spent in a game that brought them to this point of low quality gameplay.

[Vazkulator]

Heres a decent scenario of why taunts are needed and why every MMO should be expected to have a threat system and not just some taunt debuff that needs to be refreshed every few seconds on each individual target.

EACH ROLE should be felt valuable;
Damage dealers should have some sort of stun/crowd control or at the very least some sort of counter ability.

Tanks should have the ability dethreat a friendly player in their team in at least some form of ability or ability to monitor whos got the most amount of threat generated on an enemy unit to quickly switch focus over to prevent any future problem to ever occur in the fight which is mostly bandaided with casting a leash that grabs the enemy towards the player or used by manually casting yet another taunt debuff as a tank right now which is something thats done when the problem has already started to appear in the fight.

of course the DK shared shields are quite valuable but its still only a bandaid fix of an underhood system expectations that the devs dont support their players with for a more enjoyable and a gameplay experience that has more expectations from the players of having a good teamspirit and good team coordination. (I find an immense value in team synergy and synergetic effects of abilities)

healers should have at least some ability of individually selecting enemy targets/friendly targets in order to quickly dispell/decurse nasty effects or apply their own nasty little abilities over to enemy units in either form of CC or DoT and so forth.

that brings the whole question over to why taunts arent needed ? well thats simple, the combat system is bad in this game, this games combat system is very outdated and the devs just seem lazy and/or uneducated in this field alltogether.. I really dont find any other explanation for this.

[Fafan]

To be fair, I never played tank. But if the tank doesn't take the damage, which he only can do if he is the target, I cannot do what I am supposed to do (dealing damage obviously). My DD is super squishy. Now, you can say, I am not a great player and you are probably right there. But no matter how I build my DD and no matter how good I play it. He will always be squishy. If I am the target, I will be just running away, healing and dodging. Some hits can be so strong, they kill me right away, so even a good healer can't keep up healing me. So if you don't draw the target to you, I can't do my job.

Maybe if you have the right team and your mates are not so squishy like me, you can play it your way. But than it really depends on team composition. I doubt you will find that in a random group.

[Robka]

For normal dungeon it doesnt matter, but if you try veteran dungeon and the enemy/boss goes to the healer all the time, goodluck with that.

[Vazkulator]

Originally posted by Master:

To be fair, I never played tank. But if the tank doesn't take the damage, which he only can do if he is the target, I cannot do what I am supposed to do (dealing damage obviously). My DD is super squishy. Now, you can say, I am not a great player and you are probably right there. But no matter how I build my DD and no matter how good I play it. He will always be squishy. If I am the target, I will be just running away, healing and dodging. Some hits can be so strong, they kill me right away, so even a good healer can't keep up healing me. So if you don't draw the target to you, I can't do my job.

Maybe if you have the right team and your mates are not so squishy like me, you can play it your way. But than it really depends on team composition. I doubt you will find that in a random group.

higher cp equals higher general resilience in combat depending on your point distribution, its a nobrainer solution of a bigger problem. (this is a problem for the developers of solving, not the players)

[oderso]

a tank without taunt is useless

[KingofMemes69]

In other MMO's tanks will have taunts out the ass, being able to completely taunt 50+ enemies at a single time.

ESO is a bit different. There's a reason why the only taunts in the game are single target, and it's a design choice.

In ESO, as a tank you generally only taunt the boss and maybe a few hard-hitting mobs. You leave the rest of the enemies for your DPS to deal with. Especially for higher tier combat, it's pretty easy to see why it would be pretty bad if the boss started chasing after your healer. If your healer has to run around and defend themselves from the boss, then they can't heal. Also, that means you aren't tanking any damage, so all of that extra health and armor that you have is completely useless.

Also, by the way, you should definitely be using Puncture from the 1 Hand and Sword. It does 2 things. The first is that it taunts the enemy you hit for 15 seconds. The second is that it reduces their armor, so your DPS will do much more damage.

[Vazkulator]

Originally posted by KingofMemes69:

In other MMO's tanks will have taunts out the ass, being able to completely taunt 50+ enemies at a single time.

ESO is a bit different. There's a reason why the only taunts in the game are single target, and it's a design choice.

In ESO, as a tank you generally only taunt the boss and maybe a few hard-hitting mobs. You leave the rest of the enemies for your DPS to deal with. Especially for higher tier combat, it's pretty easy to see why it would be pretty bad if the boss started chasing after your healer. If your healer has to run around and defend themselves from the boss, then they can't heal. Also, that means you aren't tanking any damage, so all of that extra health and armor that you have is completely useless.

dont you mean a design flaw, flawed/outdated combat system and lack of a threat system ?

im pretty sure that theres no mmo that intentionally design their games implement a tank role that is designed to ignore that enemies are hitting your damage dealers or the teams healers.

its a flaw, not a choice.

[Keyrala]

That's right having taunt is useless for a tank that's why i always go to VET dungeons with my nightblade tank with a bow, i have a lot HP and i can resist attacks, if you die is your fault not that im a fake tank you should have got more armor and HP on your dps character, what are you a fake dps?...

...Actually nvm that's not me that's the person we allways votekick from dungeons.

[KingofMemes69]

Originally posted by Vazkulator:

Originally posted by KingofMemes69:

In other MMO's tanks will have taunts out the ass, being able to completely taunt 50+ enemies at a single time.

ESO is a bit different. There's a reason why the only taunts in the game are single target, and it's a design choice.

In ESO, as a tank you generally only taunt the boss and maybe a few hard-hitting mobs. You leave the rest of the enemies for your DPS to deal with. Especially for higher tier combat, it's pretty easy to see why it would be pretty bad if the boss started chasing after your healer. If your healer has to run around and defend themselves from the boss, then they can't heal. Also, that means you aren't tanking any damage, so all of that extra health and armor that you have is completely useless.

dont you mean a design flaw, flawed/outdated combat system and lack of a threat system ?

im pretty sure that theres no mmo that intentionally design their games implement a tank role that is designed to ignore that enemies are hitting your damage dealers or the teams healers.

its a flaw, not a choice.

ESO dungeon trash are a bit different than other MMOs. ESO dungeon trash have the same stats as overland trash. Meaning that nobody should be dying to them. If people are dying to a bunch of trash, then you need to re-evaluate the team you're in. They do insignificant amounts of damage, your DPS should have plenty of damage to kill them before the trash can actually do anything, and if things do get hairy, that's why you have your healer.

It's different from an MMO like FFXIV where even the dungeon trash can do a really serious amount of damage to any person, which is why the tank HAS to taunt all of the trash.

That's why it's ok for ESO to not have an AoE taunt, because there's really no reason for it. Taunt is best used for enemies that can actually harm your group, and Puncture/Inner Fire does the job perfectly.

tl;dr taunt is used for bosses and elite enemies. If your team is dying to a bunch of trash, then it's a fault in your team, not because there's no AoE taunt.

[Vazkulator]

Originally posted by KingofMemes69:

Originally posted by Vazkulator:

dont you mean a design flaw, flawed/outdated combat system and lack of a threat system ?

im pretty sure that theres no mmo that intentionally design their games implement a tank role that is designed to ignore that enemies are hitting your damage dealers or the teams healers.

its a flaw, not a choice.

ESO dungeon trash are a bit different than other MMOs. ESO dungeon trash have the same stats as overland trash. Meaning that nobody should be dying to them. If people are dying to a bunch of trash, then you need to re-evaluate the team you're in. They do insignificant amounts of damage, your DPS should have plenty of damage to kill them before the trash can actually do anything, and if things do get hairy, that's why you have your healer.

It's different from an MMO like FFXIV where even the dungeon trash can do a really serious amount of damage to any person, which is why the tank HAS to taunt all of the trash.

That's why it's ok for ESO to not have an AoE taunt, because there's really no reason for it. Taunt is best used for enemies that can actually harm your group, and Puncture/Inner Fire does the job perfectly.

tl;dr taunt is used for bosses and elite enemies. If your team is dying to a bunch of trash, then it's a fault in your team, not because there's no AoE taunt.

are you saying that the ESO developers intentionally designed the games trash mobs to be freely attacking the healers and damage dealers of a dungen and/or raid group despite that they implemented the role called a Tank ?

[KingofMemes69]

Originally posted by Vazkulator:

Originally posted by KingofMemes69:

ESO dungeon trash are a bit different than other MMOs. ESO dungeon trash have the same stats as overland trash. Meaning that nobody should be dying to them. If people are dying to a bunch of trash, then you need to re-evaluate the team you're in. They do insignificant amounts of damage, your DPS should have plenty of damage to kill them before the trash can actually do anything, and if things do get hairy, that's why you have your healer.

It's different from an MMO like FFXIV where even the dungeon trash can do a really serious amount of damage to any person, which is why the tank HAS to taunt all of the trash.

That's why it's ok for ESO to not have an AoE taunt, because there's really no reason for it. Taunt is best used for enemies that can actually harm your group, and Puncture/Inner Fire does the job perfectly.

tl;dr taunt is used for bosses and elite enemies. If your team is dying to a bunch of trash, then it's a fault in your team, not because there's no AoE taunt.

are you saying that the ESO developers intentionally designed the games trash mobs to be freely attacking the healers and damage dealers of a dungen and/or raid group despite that they implemented the role called a Tank ?

Yes. The devs intentionally made trash packs extremely weak compared to other MMOs. I mean, if you go do a dungeon in a game such as FFXIV or WoW, and you're a DPS and you run head-first into a group of 3 mobs, you'll die in about 5 seconds because they do a lot of damage.

In ESO, you can easily tank about 6+ mobs as a DPS because of how weak they are.

Also, because of no AoE taunt, it forces the healer and DPS to actually pay attention in trash fights. In games like FFXIV, the tank pulls 2-3 packs of trash, turns them around, and then the DPS just smack them. Nothing else for DPS to do.

If you really are concerned about trash, that's what CC is for. So, let's say you're a DK tank. You run in first, do some AoE skill such a Caltrops to draw initial aggro. Then you use a CC skill like Dark Talons to root all of the mobs in place so they can't run around. And there you go, you have your very own psedo-AOE-taunt.

[Vazkulator]

Originally posted by KingofMemes69:

Originally posted by Vazkulator:

are you saying that the ESO developers intentionally designed the games trash mobs to be freely attacking the healers and damage dealers of a dungen and/or raid group despite that they implemented the role called a Tank ?

Yes. The devs intentionally made trash packs extremely weak compared to other MMOs. I mean, if you go do a dungeon in a game such as FFXIV or WoW, and you're a DPS and you run head-first into a group of 3 mobs, you'll die in about 5 seconds because they do a lot of damage.

In ESO, you can easily tank about 6+ mobs as a DPS because of how weak they are.

Also, because of no AoE taunt, it forces the healer and DPS to actually pay attention in trash fights. In games like FFXIV, the tank pulls 2-3 packs of trash, turns them around, and then the DPS just smack them. Nothing else for DPS to do.

If you really are concerned about trash, that's what CC is for. So, let's say you're a DK tank. You run in first, do some AoE skill such a Caltrops to draw initial aggro. Then you use a CC skill like Dark Talons to root all of the mobs in place so they can't run around. And there you go, you have your very own psedo-AOE-taunt.

do you have any source that indicates which intentions of the developers being in any kind of way relevant that theyve developed the game in such a way that damage dealers are supposed to have trash mobs smacking them around while the tank is only focused on the boss ?

theres no tanks in WoW that has an aoe taunt, do you really have experience as a tank in mmos ?

[B〄F Altonator]

Well maybe people shouldn't put all their faith in one person to take all the hits, just sayin.
If you can't survive a few enemies your build is simply bad.

If the boss goes for another person i will help them by reducing the boss damage and increasing the players resistance.