Please DO NOT "just" fix the 60FPS interception fire "bug"

[Durante]

As per the title: it has been shown that playing at higher framerate increases the rate of interception fire, both for you and the enemies. While many would call this a bug and want it fixed (and really, that's what it is), please don't just fix it.

I've been wondering while replaying the game on PC why silly scout rush strategies don't work as well as they did on PS3. Now I know why. It's an (unintentional, probably) balance change which makes great sense and improves on one of the most criticised tactical aspects of the original release -- that scout rushing is the most effective strategy for many missions, while also being the most boring to play.

So, my proposal is this:

• Fix interception fire rate to be framerate-independent (because it being framerate dependent is clearly a bug), but set it by default to the rate which happens at 60 FPS, not 30.
  
• Ideally, provide an option in the settings to toggle between the 30 and 60 rate. For scout rushers :P

Just don't patch it to 30 for all framerates without the option to play the current, superior strategy game.

[Durante]

"Balanced Gameplay: Yes/No"
;)

But seriously, it could be something like "Interception Fire Rate: Rebalanced/Original"

[MDuh]

idk, there are 3 instances now where I needed to go down to 30 fps to get an A rank in a mission.

Like for these particular mission, it is absolutely needed to exploit the 30fps interception rate since:

1) A rank requirement is only 1 turn.
2) you cannot ever go get past the ace tank back to 1HKO it using a scout.

If someone can finish this mission in 1 turn while in 60fps, I'll be very surprised since I wasn't able to go past the enemy tank to get a clear shot on the back even w/ multiple retries

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=341769128

[jeyface]

I agree, the rate of fire should clearly be framerate independant but the game balance is much better with how it is at 60.

[Nappael]

I agree entirely. Some work might need to be done with the ranking system to compensate for the changes though, although to be fair the system isn't great to begin with.

[JDON]

I did a lot of Scout rush on PS3. While it was interesting the first time around, it's simply not what I'm looking for in a replay. Now with the new "balance bug", playing defensive on some maps is actually feasible, and I have to take a much more cautious and united approach when advancing on enemy fronts.

Tanks are now invaluable moving covers for the troops. Shocktroopers are also vastly more useful for charging at enemies, but they are far from invincible and will require rest or healing after every assault. Lancers can no longer shamelessly ignore everything and just stroll next to a tank's radiator under enemy fire. Scouts are now mainly useful for stealth, flanking or... surprisingly, scouting.

[Bishop]

Originally posted by Durante:

• Fix interception fire rate to be framerate-independent (because it being framerate dependent is clearly a bug), but set it by default to the rate which happens at 60 FPS, not 30.

Actually i kinda doubt they even can do it now. Using fps time instead of delta time is a long lasting and ugly practice of many japanese game developers (i'm looking on you, From). Its easier to program and works well on consoles where fps is usually limited, so these lazy codemonkeys don't even bother to do it properly.

[Sugoi]

Originally posted by Bishop:

Its easier to program and works well on consoles where fps is usually limited, so these lazy codemonkeys don't even bother to do it properly.

There's a lot more to it than being lazy. There's an order of magnitude of extra complexity involved in creating an engine that keeps track of tick states and render states independently.

It's not that this is unknown or even all that difficult, but every layer of complexity you add is somewhere else that bugs can creep in and cause problems.

[kihti]

I strongly agree with this, while it was annoying in the 1st naggiar mission when you have to play hide-and-seek with Edelweiss forced me to switch to 30fps.

It really makes the game more fun for me, didn't use scout rushing back on ps3 and no intention to start now even with this bug. You actually have to avoid getting shot at by tanks and shocktroopers.

Makes the Girha...., the double tower fortress, missions challenging. On the outside, not before trying to hit the 3rd switch though, those bunkers eat you alive on the 3rd switch. Had to rush Edelweiss to provide smoke cover. Inside, well I did it pretty much the same way as on ps3 (smoke and steel at the start) but let's just say that certain enemy can be insanely deadly if you try to facetank him/her/it.

In short, if you haven't played this on ps3, you might want to cap it to 30fps unless you are willing to have more challenging experience. And like durante said, if you (Sega) can fix the tank behavior to be fps independent (moving on sloped terrain mostly), keep the current interception fire from 60fps as "default" or atleast as an option.

[TFJ]

Yep, its a de facto improvement to the game. Scout rush still works fine with defense Orders though. There's also a lot of other balance changes that I would do. Maybe in VC 4 they finally get it right. Or someone makes a mod.

Anyway, I doubt they will fix it even if they could. Those types of bugs seem to require the reworking of very sensitive pieces of code in an engine.

[Mutant1988]

It's been so long since I played it on PS3 I didn't even pick up on interception fire being more efficient. I do approve of it though, it's a welcome change to the game. But I feel that scouts are still overpowered compared to the other classes, but this is mainly the fault of the objective design (Too many levels with instant win upon capturing a single base).

Some new rebalance settings would be very welcome, even if it's only the 60 fps interception fire. Obviously, they should still restore the original experience as the default setting.

Originally posted by TFJ:

Anyway, I doubt they will fix it even if they could. Those types of bugs seem to require the reworking of very sensitive pieces of code in an engine.

Honestly... Considering that Valkyria Chronicles 3 wasn't released outside of Japan I think maybe they should just straight up remake it. Keep the story, keep the general level design, but increase the scale and remake all the assets to the same quality of VC1.

Because it does address a lot of the issues with the balance in both VC1 (Scouts) and 2 (Tank). Sure, it does introduce some of it's own (Some of the character special abilities are overpowered from what I've heard), but that can be ironed out if it's remade.

[busards]

Is there a video of that 60Hz improved interception fire somewhere?
I can't seem to find a video of it.

[Blank]

Here's a short clip I made earlier. Shocktroopers hurt quite a lot and tanks shred you up.

http://youtu.be/d9mjfwey9rE

[kihti]

Originally posted by busards:

Is there a video of that 60Hz improved interception fire somewhere?
I can't seem to find a video of it.

http://steamcommunity.com/app/294860/discussions/0/624075036308203868/#c624075036365155277

[busards]

It's difficult to tell without the sound.
Is it the firing speed that is increased?

Wouldn't it be easier to tell with scouts firing at you instead of a tank (tank damage have always been very random due to their accuracy)? Scouts shoot slowly enough to see if it's the firing speed or damage or anything else.

[Durante]

Originally posted by Bishop:

Originally posted by Durante:

• Fix interception fire rate to be framerate-independent (because it being framerate dependent is clearly a bug), but set it by default to the rate which happens at 60 FPS, not 30.

Actually i kinda doubt they even can do it now. Using fps time instead of delta time is a long lasting and ugly practice of many japanese game developers (i'm looking on you, From). Its easier to program and works well on consoles where fps is usually limited, so these lazy codemonkeys don't even bother to do it properly.

I very much doubt that it's impossible. It's merely a question of how much effort it is, and how much time they are willing to invest into fixing it. Could take 4 hours to fix or a few weeks, really.

Either way, I'm already very happy as-is, as I play at 60 FPS and consider the improved interception an improvement to balance. I just want to make sure that they don't patch the game to be "worse" for me, by fixing it to the 30 FPS version for any refresh rate.