many useless weapons from base game and mods

[Eu sou]

Hi guys

Even using mods to have more weapons I noticed that most are useless, especially in the beginning of the game.

Depending on the mod it allows you to evolve your weapons from Stone Age to futuristic weapons.

I killed 4 enemies with the worst bow in the game, and they were each with a pistol, now my colonists have 4 pistols. Why would I research different types of bows and muskets?

The idea of ​​having various weapons and armor from stone age, medieval and modern is interesting, but most are useless when you get better weapons from the enemy, research or buy in some city.

The game and the mods dont have a gradual transition from one type of weapon to another.

That's my impression. Do you also go through this?

[Winterbloom]

All tools break over time, not only that, better gear takes longer to produce. Gonna be cheaper to remake a longbow over making a bolt action.

Edit: Theres also mods to help enforce using what you know. Arcane Technology for instance prevents you from using those pistols if you cant make them. (No starting tech + tech advance + semi-random research + arcane technology. rough early game, still pretty rough late game)

[Paroe]

Originally posted by Winterbloom:

All tools break over time, not only that, better gear takes longer to produce. Gonna be cheaper to remake a longbow over making a bolt action.

Edit: Theres also mods to help enforce using what you know. Arcane Technology for instance prevents you from using those pistols if you cant make them. (No starting tech + tech advance + semi-random research + arcane technology. rough early game, still pretty rough late game)

This. The gear you make yourself will, after a certain point, simply be better than the gear you scavenge.

[bearhiderug]

I have alot of armour and weapon adding mods, some are kinda useless, some become useless quickly, somer faster then others. A few are quite interesting. Some will have a niche role your looking for. More often then not i find a weapon or two i like to rp with on an ideology lol.
one tribal playthrough I made my mind to only use bows, and crossbow type weapons, and found a late game ultratech weapon that was some sorta space laser bow. So was amazeing! But useing that weapon compared to most other guns of that tech level would maybe be pointless in other games

Originally posted by Paroe:

This. The gear you make yourself will, after a certain point, simply be better than the gear you scavenge.

Once you get a 18+ crafter and you get gear pumping out consistantly, yeah, gear you make will bloat your colony wealth and give you absolutly better survivabilitry

[Jigain]

Originally posted by Eu sou:

The idea of ​​having various weapons and armor from stone age, medieval and modern is interesting, but most are useless when you get better weapons from the enemy, research or buy in some city.

If all weapons were equal in all stats, there would be no progression. It is intended that a charge rifle outclasses a shortbow. If it did not, there would be no point spending time and resources crafting it, or resources buying it.

[AngleWyrm]

Originally posted by Eu sou:

I killed 4 enemies with the worst bow in the game, and they were each with a pistol, now my colonists have 4 pistols. Why would I research different types of bows and muskets?

The idea of ​​having various weapons and armor from stone age, medieval and modern is interesting, but most are useless when you get better weapons from the enemy, research or buy in some city.

Yup. The chances of receiving better gear from a loot drop or just going next door and buying it are higher than getting better gear from research & development. Just one of the many poor outcomes of designing a game to not be balanced.

The developer has chosen to nerf loot in order to attack player colonies with superior firepower while not providing the player with that superior firepower. Death acidifiers that destroy loot on mob death, bio-encoded weapons that are useless, poisoned meat from attacking animals, tainted clothing that make loot undesirable, enforced price slashing on equipment sales, etc.

I think Rimworld is a cautionary tale of attempting to impose an imbalance of power between Team Developer's Hostile World and Team Player's Colony.

Here's a collection of mods that alter some unpopular rules in favor of the player
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2688295123

[gimmethegepgun]

Originally posted by AngleWyrm:

Yup. The chances of receiving better gear from a loot drop or just going next door and buying it are higher than getting better gear from research & development.
[...]
The developer has chosen to nerf loot in order to attack player colonies with superior firepower while not providing the player with that superior firepower.

I can't tell if you're complaining that the loot is too good or too bad lol

[AngleWyrm]

Originally posted by gimmethegepgun:

I can't tell if you're complaining that the loot is too good or too bad lol

My point is an agreement with the OP, that even given these many attempts to grief the player, you still get more advanced loot much faster than research & development.

It's a situation that's made worse if you play with mods that each demand research points. That can be corrected with a mod that allows the player to adjust research speed. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1182992587
But it doesn't address the problem of loot drops & purchases from neighbors and tradesman which exceed player's currently researched techs.

If there were a mod that gated use of researchable things to their research prerequisites, then the player could slow down the pace of advancement.

[Paroe]

Originally posted by AngleWyrm:

Originally posted by Eu sou:

I killed 4 enemies with the worst bow in the game, and they were each with a pistol, now my colonists have 4 pistols. Why would I research different types of bows and muskets?

The idea of ​​having various weapons and armor from stone age, medieval and modern is interesting, but most are useless when you get better weapons from the enemy, research or buy in some city.

Yup. The chances of receiving better gear from a loot drop or just going next door and buying it are higher than getting better gear from research & development. Just one of the many poor outcomes of designing a game to not be balanced.

The developer has chosen to nerf loot in order to attack player colonies with superior firepower while not providing the player with that superior firepower. Death acidifiers that destroy loot on mob death, bio-encoded weapons that are useless, poisoned meat from attacking animals, tainted clothing that make loot undesirable, enforced price slashing on equipment sales, etc.

I think Rimworld is a cautionary tale of attempting to impose an imbalance of power between Team Developer's Hostile World and Team Player's Colony.

Here's a collection of mods that alter some unpopular rules in favor of the player
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2688295123

Are you from the binding of isaac subreddit, because that sounds like a lot of conspiracy theories from a pessimistic cynic.
Anyway
Rimworld is a story game, not a loot and shooter. While you can in fact simply loot or buy better weapons - awful and poor qaulity weapons are far worse than normal and above; This means youre better off, generally, creating your own equipment. You can buy stuff if you cant make it. I prefer buying plasma javelins over crafting them, for example.
High-end loot has death acidifiers and bio-coded stuff to help that story thing - You can still GET those items if you capture and strip, which is much harder to do that simply killing them. There is a risk and opportunity cost... Same with tainted clothing. do YOU want to wear something someone died in? No? Well why do you think your colonists would then?

As for your complaint about buying things for more than you sold them... Are you listening to yourself? Why on earth would you sum 0 trade, ever? You can get a pawn with high skills to get you 100% or more base price, though.

[Astasia]

Originally posted by Eu sou:

I killed 4 enemies with the worst bow in the game, and they were each with a pistol, now my colonists have 4 pistols. Why would I research different types of bows and muskets?

Greatbows and Recurve bows are better weapons than pistols at medium to long range, which makes them better in most engagements and hunting overall, especially if you can get them in a higher quality. Enemies generally drop lower quality gear, you are lucky to see a normal or good pistol drop from an enemy and the typical raiders don't have anything better than that. A masterwork greatbow which you can craft yourself with a bit of wood is twice the DPS of a normal quality autopistol at medium range.

In fact not much that drops from raiders will ever be better than a masterwork or legendary greatbow. A legendary greatbow even does more DPS than a normal quality charge rifle at medium range, and can stagger pretty easily. Quality is a pretty important mechanic in the game, being able to research and craft yourself something of high quality generally gets you something a lot better than you can find on the ground after a battle.

[AngleWyrm]

Originally posted by Paroe:

Why on earth would you sum 0 trade

This is what you should have been taught about how Supply & Demand moves the ideal price point. It seems most people aren't.

https://i.imgur.com/VWyzoTU.png

[glass zebra]

In short: You start the game as a scavenger and then become an industrials. If you have nothing, anything will be good. If you have trash, anything cheap will be better.

The game just offers you a chance to actually equip the new people you get before you have good crafters and time and resources to craft. You can focus on getting some weapons from trade early on, since you will likely have some stuff produces or scavanged that you do not need, but as soon as you start leveling up a crafter, the only reason to take weapons from enemies or buy them is saving you time. If you have a single crafter for 20 people, you might just have a few really high quality weapons and still buy some from traders, but you might just slowly replace them as soon as your crafter builds more.

Apart from the general view that when you research more weapons you do get stronger, the game also has a way of leaving a niche for every weapon it has. Charge rifles will generally shred down everything with armour, but even the starter research bolt action rifle will outrange anyone with a charge rifle.

Basically every loot is good at the beginning and when you never progress it can be forever, but if you focus on getting your people good at what they do, the loot quickly becomes raw melted resources or you just loot the silver and drugs of the raiders. Being able to kill someone with a bow just means that those weapons can be used, instead of being completely pointless after a bit. Most other weapons will still give you more safety with different combat tactics, but Rimworld does not simply trash weapons once you are able to grab the next.

Your people can always end up vastly superior in gear from different sources and crafting and researching is definitely one of those. It's rather impossible to not have this opinion once you start specialising your own people, unless you are constantly sacrificing your people or can't manage priorities to let your people reach high levels. You can do a trading focused colony or a self sufficient one that never interacts with friendlies. Rimworld allows you both and both will have progression and both can advance through research and colonist leveling.

Originally posted by AngleWyrm:

Originally posted by Paroe:

Why on earth would you sum 0 trade

This is what you should have been taught about how Supply & Demand moves the ideal price point. It seems most people aren't.

https://i.imgur.com/VWyzoTU.png

You are dealing with traders in this game, not customers. No trader would ever give you near as much money as they can get from reselling the thing. The only time you meet high demand in this game is when you get a trade mission, which will always grant you much more money than the goods are worth.

[Mountain King]

Originally posted by AngleWyrm:

My point is an agreement with the OP, that even given these many attempts to grief the player, you still get more advanced loot much faster than research & development.

Spoken like someone who has never gotten to Precision Rifling and beyond.

[BurlsoL]

Few reasons.

Even at late game, a greatbow can be deadly, while also being quiet, while a sniper rifle usually requires a skilled shooter to have the same level of lethality.

Weapons have different stats for weight, damage per shot, shooting time, cooldown time. These create situational differences in where one weapon would be a better idea than others. Pistol or baton is useful as a weapon for your haulers and workers because it is a light weapon and tends to be less lethal when used on escaping prisoners. Lighter weapons mean being able to carry more when hauling and traveling on map.

Have to remember, just a thing taking damage can cause it to slow down, so a pawn with an auto-pistol can often shoot, run, shoot, run things to death. Weapons with short aim times and good accuracy at close range can be useful for this.

Value is another component. High value weapons contribute more wealth, which leads to harder events. If you can have similar effectiveness with lower value, such as using great bows instead of sniper rifles for hunting, it will help keep your colony wealth down.

[AngleWyrm]

Originally posted by glass zebra:

You are dealing with traders in this game, not customers. No trader would ever give you near as much money as they can get from reselling the thing.

I notice the word "trader" isn't applied to "you." I'd even go so far as to claim "you" are not being considered a "trader" when you're "reselling the thing."

[glass zebra]

You get missions when people want to buy your 10 wooden clubs for like 5000$. Outside of those missions you are a supplier, not a trader. People are "willing to buy", your stuff. Rimworld is not a trading simulator, but a colony simulator. The traders you meet are just "willing to buy" your stuff while providing you with things for their own profit. No game out there except for the ones who have a heavy focus on diplomacy and trading will give you prices close to 100% of an item's worth. It would make zero sense for someone to buy something off of you when losing money in the process, except if they really need it.

Rimworld has trade missions to simulate that or really: any quest with rewards the game gives you. Sometimes they want to buy combat power, sometimes they want to buy your medical power. Favouring the player over the other factions in the game is just done by games who wants to give players a power fantasy, not the ones who offer a chance to challenge yourself.