Bland map generation - Why are maps 95% identical?

[Aerensiniac]

So i've been wondering this for a while now. In older builds i have seen the map generator actually pull off strategically significant designs, long stretches of mountains, hallways, well defendable bubbles, etc etc etc.

When i grab the map reroll addon, i start by generating 100 maps and then try to find 2-3 within that actually offer something that is noteworthy, something that makes you want to build into or around.

TL;DR: Why does the current map generator not fulfill its purpose of actually generating maps instead of copying them off of eachother with barely a hint of difference?
Is there a mod, setting or smthing to spice this up a bit?

[8faiNt ı♣ı]

I meannnnnnnnnnn
if you are playing on a mountainous map and you keep seeing mountains when you reroll
I wouldnt say that its no surprise

[Artaniz]

This has to be a troll right ? are you seriously ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ about diversity on maps ? First ive never seen two identical maps roll , but more importantly and second what diversity do you want ? there are no super special secret ruins to spawn or ♥♥♥♥ like that its just faction buildings , biomes based on latitude , and everything else is a function of the settings .

Like its a square map with whatever you decide to settle on and the maps are never exactly the same unless you copy a seed so i dont really get your point other than you are being pedantic and trolling.

[Morkonan]

I think the OP is rerolling a game map using the same values from the originally chose World Map location over and over and over and over and over and over and over and no I didn't use copy&paste to write that but that's exactly what the OP is doing with their "map-reroller."

[Artaniz]

Originally posted by Morkonan:

I think the OP is rerolling a game map using the same values from the originally chose World Map location over and over and over and over and over and over and over and no I didn't use copy&paste to write that but that's exactly what the OP is doing with their "map-reroller."

Ohhh ok now i get it , there is always that one person that likes to huff paint or eat glue i guess .

[crgzero]

Originally posted by Artaniz:

Originally posted by Morkonan:

I think the OP is rerolling a game map using the same values from the originally chose World Map location over and over and over and over and over and over and over and no I didn't use copy&paste to write that but that's exactly what the OP is doing with their "map-reroller."

Ohhh ok now i get it , there is always that one person that likes to huff paint or eat glue i guess .

Or roll their used up bubble gum in paint chips so they taste like chicklets...

[Artaniz]

Originally posted by crgzero:

Originally posted by Artaniz:

Ohhh ok now i get it , there is always that one person that likes to huff paint or eat glue i guess .

Or roll their used up bubble gum in paint chips so they taste like chicklets...

best answer .

[Aerensiniac]

Originally posted by Artaniz:

Originally posted by Morkonan:

I think the OP is rerolling a game map using the same values from the originally chose World Map location over and over and over and over and over and over and over and no I didn't use copy&paste to write that but that's exactly what the OP is doing with their "map-reroller."

Ohhh ok now i get it , there is always that one person that likes to huff paint or eat glue i guess .

Well yes, technically there is always that one person who seemingly lacks every form of common sense and just wants to read as everything you say as a personal insult, so their answers are not only brain dead, but also condescending.
So i guess you are right. I can relate.

Originally posted by Morkonan:

I think the OP is rerolling a game map using the same values from the originally chose World Map location over and over and over and over and over and over and over and no I didn't use copy&paste to write that but that's exactly what the OP is doing with their "map-reroller."

In all actuality map reroll has a specific option for disabling same value generation, but even so, one would expect for someone with over 1800 hours into the game to notice fixed values in map generation.
Not sure. Do you require 2000 hours more to note that sea and mountainous regions consist of one border and the same percentage fill on exactly one side of the map? That blotch connects are artifically reduced even on no mountainous maps?
And no, you dont need a mod to see how similar generated maps are. A concept which should be easier and easier to understand the more time you spend with the game, but here i am with my 600 hours+ watching someone with 3 times as more, not being able to figure out what i could mean with generated map similarities.

I mean i dont really have expectations when it comes to standards on a forum cause they are near always a cesspool, but it does kinda amaze me when you ask something and then 4 year old little Timmy and his 6 year old pal Beavis drag themselves out of the woodwork with eyes crusted shut and drool dripping, just to start a back and forth between eachother about what the question could mean in the first place, to then come to the grand conclusion of "he be snifftin peint, end eatz gluh", "naah bru, he be puttin gum in drai paint fo da daste of crakaz", then point at you and laugh.
And you just behold the entire thing unfold, wondering what kind of inbreeding crossed with bestiality is required to produce the intellectual fireworks in front of you.

If you two chuckle**cks are trying to cosplay some orks from warhammer, then i will give you performance a B.
In any actual setting involving brain functionality, please just crawl back to the institution you escaped from. Thanks <3

[TwistedRuse]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1507370392 https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1750390635 https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=761315214

I mean, 1.0 still, but, I use these guys, dunno if that helps.

[Aerensiniac]

Originally posted by TwistedRuse:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1507370392 https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1750390635 https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=761315214

I mean, 1.0 still, but, I use these guys, dunno if that helps.

Configurable maps seems like just the type of thing im looking for. Will test it when i get around to it. Thank you for your answer.

[LIMP BISQUICK]

Well, your title isn’t praising the map generation. They get nutty over things like that. Haven’t gotten to try out the configurable maps so that one might be present the most noticeable change.

Check out the pics in these mods if you guys still don’t understand:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1598637926

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1515105168

You can generate thousands of maps in vanilla and they won’t turn out anything similar to some of those examples you see in the pics. Not even diving into things like ore veins, caves, ruins, extreme density changes to wildlife/plants among identical biomes etc.

Of course there needs to be boundaries to prevent some funky results or balancing issues. This kind of restriction is what makes it “bland” tho. Been hoping for improvement in that area myself but it is what is. I can’t say it’s too shabby & it gets the job done for most players.

I guess my recommendation is to keep an eye out for biome mods. Hopefully something like this would help.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1931453053

[ambi]

you can go into dev mode and edit the map to your heart's content.

[Aerensiniac]

Originally posted by Jibbles:

Well, your title isn’t praising the map generation. They get nutty over things like that.

Im sure that Timmy and Beavis go nutty over many things, just like your average chimp does.
Especially when its like Beavis here with 1800+ hours in it, yet cant figure out how maps could be similar to each other.
Curious that you on the other hand managed to understand what im on about instantly.

Originally posted by Jibbles:

Haven’t gotten to try out the configurable maps so that one might be present the most noticeable change.

Check out the pics in these mods if you guys still don’t understand:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1598637926

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1515105168

You can generate thousands of maps in vanilla and they won’t turn out anything similar to some of those examples you see in the pics. Not even diving into things like ore veins, caves, ruins, extreme density changes to wildlife/plants among identical biomes etc.

Of course there needs to be boundaries to prevent some funky results or balancing issues. This kind of restriction is what makes it “bland” tho. Been hoping for improvement in that area myself but it is what is. I can’t say it’s too shabby & it gets the job done for most players.

I guess my recommendation is to keep an eye out for biome mods. Hopefully something like this would help.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1931453053

Thank you for the suggestions, these do seem to be indeed what i am looking for.
As for there needing to be balancing to prevent funky results... i have no idea what that means in all honesty.
If chaotic results such as map entirely made out of ores or impassable areas such as sea are prevented, then no matter the end result, you get a map. It might be a very unique map, it might be a less favorable map, it might be not what you are looking for, but it would be still a fully functional map given by a map generator that is actually doing something instead of copy pasting maps over eachother with minor differences.

So not sure what you mean there, but regardless, thank you for those mod suggestions.

[LIMP BISQUICK]

As for there needing to be balancing to prevent funky results... i have no idea what that means in all honesty.
If chaotic results such as map entirely made out of ores or impassable areas such as sea are prevented, then no matter the end result, you get a map. It might be a very unique map, it might be a less favorable map, it might be not what you are looking for, but it would be still a fully functional map given by a map generator that is actually doing something instead of copy pasting maps over eachother with minor differences.

If maps had the tendency to produce chaotic results then it could more often look strange rather than organic. You might also get unexpected results with things like: Small piece of land surround by deep ocean water. That alone poses some issues in vanilla. It's time consuming to make sure you don't get those kind of results (as a dev), cause you can't leave small things like that up to chance when new players try out your game. It's also important for balancing during development, I imagine it'd be difficult to gauge things like crafting/structures and fuel requirement if map generation wasn't so strict with those perimeters. I'll admit, Tynan should have enough data by now to make a good guess in such circumstances anyways. Before suggesting adding more biomes we do have to think about new players. He simply may not want to spend much time working on this area.

I do agree with you, those kind of results can produce unique maps and heavily impact your decisions. Hopefully some day we'll get some kind of clever biome-maker mod that could give the kind of results we're after. Even hand-crafting maps to share with people is unfortunately not a good way to go about it due to how this game works.

[Aerensiniac]

Originally posted by Jibbles:

If maps had the tendency to produce chaotic results then it could more often look strange rather than organic. You might also get unexpected results with things like: Small piece of land surround by deep ocean water. That alone poses some issues in vanilla. It's time consuming to make sure you don't get those kind of results (as a dev), cause you can't leave small things like that up to chance when new players try out your game. It's also important for balancing during development, I imagine it'd be difficult to gauge things like crafting/structures and fuel requirement if map generation wasn't so strict with those perimeters. I'll admit, Tynan should have enough data by now to make a good guess in such circumstances anyways. Before suggesting adding more biomes we do have to think about new players. He simply may not want to spend much time working on this area.

I do agree with you, those kind of results can produce unique maps and heavily impact your decisions. Hopefully some day we'll get some kind of clever biome-maker mod that could give the kind of results we're after. Even hand-crafting maps to share with people is unfortunately not a good way to go about it due to how this game works.

Well i do see your point, but the goal should be at the end of the day to iron out those problems and still create a diverse map generator.
I mean... you mentioned the end result being not too "organic".
I dont think the current settings are "organic" either, especially with mountains being a 20% fill line at the edge of the screen. Its just my opinion, and i agree that there are plenty of more pressing issues and priorities when it comes to the idea of updates.
I guess i will just hope as well that somewhere down the line this gets addressed somehow. If by no other way then by simply implementing a good, functional mod into the game itself.

Anyway, thanks once more for your help with the mods.

[Morkonan]

Originally posted by Aerensiniac:

...
If you two chuckle**cks are trying to cosplay some orks from warhammer, then i will give you performance a B.
In any actual setting involving brain functionality, please just crawl back to the institution you escaped from. Thanks <3

Make Red on Map thing, go fastah...


Keep your ___mittens off that keyboard for a sec... ;)

I don't know "Map Reroller" so can't really speak to it. But, I don't notice these sorts of "bland map generation" things. So, why is that? Maybe I don't use Map Reroller? Or, maybe I pick different biomes? Maybe I choose differently than you? Those all seem to be likely causes for such differences.

There certain are some consistencies in map generation. There no such thing as a truly random number, but I doubt anyone is detecting similarities in quantum differences. Most likely, the similarities are caused by how Rimworld generates maps and ensure that the maps that are generated are actually "playable." (There have been, however, some pretty funny examples of map generation. A few sought-after "all mountain" map seeds were pretty popular for awhile.)

Rimworld's World Generation is pretty darn cool: https://rimworldwiki.com/wiki/World_generation

AFAIK, the landing site maps are constrained by the World Seed as well. That might mean that changing the World Seed would influence landing site generation, too. At least, inasmuch as the World Seed influences terrain changes in the World Generation.

The consistencies should be evident across maps - The map has to be playable. If you're finding maps that are all playable... Well, there ya go. If you aren't finding maps that are not as extreme in one feature or another that you would like to see, pick a different hex that's deeper in the biome that has those features or, failing that, change the World Seed.

There are plenty of map mods out there to help generate the landing sites you'd like to play with. Use 'em!