RimWorld
Equil 2018 年 7 月 20 日 下午 9:49
Defense without killbox - Viable?
I've been looking for ideas about building defenses but almost everywhere I look everyone just says build a killbox.. which not to bash people who like the method, just seems lame/exploity and not really in the spirit of things to me, I'd like to avoid it if I can.

Could anyone provide some ideas and/or screenshots of a non-killbox defense which works for them? Is a non-killbox defense even viable on the higher difficulties? Thanks.
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正在显示第 16 - 30 条,共 38 条留言
Nightmyre 2018 年 7 月 21 日 上午 2:58 
The main reason why killboxes are necessary is because injuries are so crippling. Even a single shot could cost your pawn an arm, an eye, a foot, whatever - and that's ignoring the chance that they end up getting some bad infections before you can deal with them.

Early game you can get away without them, because you can kite reasonably effectively, and there aren't enough enemies to cause a major problem. But late-game, when you're dealing with raids of 30-40 pawns, there's no real way to manage all of them, even if you do micro-manage to the extreme. You're inevitably going to eventually mess up, and it'll cost you.

1.0 is addressing this to a limited extent, by making it so that armor vastly decreases the chance of a shot causing damage - rather than simply reducing the damage, it let's you ignore it. But even with those changes, really, it's impossible to avoid the killbox route when the game is throwing so many enemies at you.

If you really want to avoid killboxes, what you have to effectively do is surrender the notion of actually having all your pawns be functional. You've got to be ready to have many of them die at unfortunate times, and in unfortunate ways.

I haven't tried playing like that, because I tend to get obsessed with my pawns, but it's something I'm probably going to experiment with in 1.0, when it's done being worked on. Especially with the armor rework.
ignis 2018 年 7 月 21 日 上午 3:08 
引用自 Nightmyre
I haven't tried playing like that, because I tend to get obsessed with my pawns, but it's something I'm probably going to experiment with in 1.0, when it's done being worked on. Especially with the armor rework.
In the current state, armor rework is not helping. Sure, power armor can shrug off most shortbow arrows or autopistol bullets, but lancer would still shoot your brains out, and guys with spears would still gut you through all that armor. It just decreases chances to be crippled.
最后由 ignis 编辑于; 2018 年 7 月 21 日 上午 3:09
ambi 2018 年 7 月 21 日 上午 7:41 
If you want to make an open-plan "village", then just ring your colony with deadfall traps. They take quite a bit of work and resources to build, but they're passive and as a bonus, they'll kill any passing animal, so you get free food.
最后由 ambi 编辑于; 2018 年 7 月 21 日 上午 7:41
Astasia 2018 年 7 月 21 日 下午 3:41 
引用自 Equil
All good points here. I guess what I'm trying to say is I just don't like the idea of there being just a single be-all-end-all strategy to the game, doesn't it get boring just building the exact same cookie-cutter defense every game? Is there not multiple styles of play?

I would agree with this completely if combat was the game. It's not though, combat is just one of the many facets of RimWorld, in some ways a minor one, to the point where a good number of people fully enjoy playing the game on peaceful. If you want more flexibility in defense, there's basebuilder, and mods. Ramping up the difficulty means you have to use the tools the game gives you to their full extent, and there aren't many options on how to do it because there aren't many tools available in the base game.

A lot of us always assumed that by the time the game came out there would be several major defense updates fleshing out the system and adding interesting turrets, traps, and other tools that would allow for more creative defenses. After several years the only thing that's really changed is traps have been flip-flopped between useful and useless several times, and one new turret was added, sort of. I think that kind of puts into perspective the importance of combat for the game.

引用自 Nightmyre
1.0 is addressing this to a limited extent, by making it so that armor vastly decreases the chance of a shot causing damage - rather than simply reducing the damage, it let's you ignore it.

It's really the opposite here. Instead of colonists being injured randomly, now they are outright dying randomly. It's even more risky to put colonists into any sort of combat situation in 1.0, nearly everything has the potential to instantly kill them at any point in the game.
easytarget (已封禁) 2018 年 7 月 21 日 下午 4:26 
That's the danger with EA (especially one that's dragged on as long as this one has), listening to a small minority of vocal players is an echo chamber, and they typically want everything made harder, which rarely makes for interesting or varied decisions but instead turns game play into more of a puzzle with fewer victory path choices.

It's still not too late to botch this up a bit as Tynan attempts to push it past the finish line, but here's hoping that's not ultimately the case. ;)
最后由 easytarget 编辑于; 2018 年 7 月 21 日 下午 4:40
Morkonan 2018 年 7 月 21 日 下午 4:40 
引用自 Equil
I've been looking for ideas about building defenses but almost everywhere I look everyone just says build a killbox.. which not to bash people who like the method, just seems lame/exploity and not really in the spirit of things to me, I'd like to avoid it if I can.
...

You don't have to have a killbox, in my experience, but you must be able to manipulate where the attackers can easily advance and where you can concentrate your fire.

The Firstest with the Mostest always wins. - Strategy maxim

If, however, you can't be the Firstest and can't have the Mostest, then you have to use "unconventional tactics."

The suggestion above, sniping at the enemy while causing them to ping-pong back and forth, can work as a guerilla tactic, but only because they can't open doors as easily as you can. If an enemy removes a door or blasts through it, that tactic is over with. It's still a good general plan, though, for whittling down the enemy. Not necessarily a victorious plan, but one that can enable an eventual victory.

In keeping with "Firstest the Mostest" miniguns are very nice, especially for inexperienced Firearm pawns. They shouldn't be aiming at enemies. Rather, manually aim past the enemy and, that way, only the implicit miss value will come into play, not their inabiltiy to target effectively, since they're not aiming at an enemy. But, a minigun's cycle time is pretty long and it fires for awhile, so those pawns wielding it using that strat need to be well protected.

Do all you can to "control" the battlefield and to pick it for yourself. You don't have to construct a killbox, but you need places where the enemy is likely to be funneled to and places from which you can defend effectively.

AFAIK, in the late advanced game, you need to have some sort of passive defense and generally protected areas in order to survive. You can try "Defense in Depth" which is especially useful for pod-based attacks. Build a protected bunker area from which you can attack most of the interior spaces where attackers would likely go inside your base's defenses. That's a fallback position you can use if things go pear-shaped.
corisai 2018 年 7 月 21 日 下午 6:22 
引用自 Morkonan
The suggestion above, sniping at the enemy while causing them to ping-pong back and forth, can work as a guerilla tactic, but only because they can't open doors as easily as you can.

Sooner or later you will get raid with ~8-10 tripple missile launchers. Guess what fate will wait your doors in that case? :steamhappy:

引用自 Morkonan
Rather, manually aim past the enemy and, that way, only the implicit miss value will come into play, not their inabiltiy to target effectively, since they're not aiming at an enemy.

No longer work in 1.0. :)

Maybe old trick with force attack animal sleeping spot still work - not checked it.
最后由 corisai 编辑于; 2018 年 7 月 21 日 下午 6:22
Morkonan 2018 年 7 月 21 日 下午 6:42 
引用自 corisai
引用自 Morkonan
The suggestion above, sniping at the enemy while causing them to ping-pong back and forth, can work as a guerilla tactic, but only because they can't open doors as easily as you can.

Sooner or later you will get raid with ~8-10 tripple missile launchers. Guess what fate will wait your doors in that case? :steamhappy:

They will become... not-doors? :)

In that case, I'm dead. But, Rimworld is always trying to kill me, anyway, so what else is new? Maybe... maybe... Maybe I should get me some tripple-missle-launchers, too? THE ARMS RACE HAS BEGUN! <blows up own base, freezes to death, animals all go manhunter, last colonist killed by squirrel>

That's an idea, though, that hasn't been mentioned, but is really popular - Psychic Insanity Lances and the Animal inducer thingie. Stay safe in your base and just use these to drive raiders crazy, immediately take out radiers carrying dangerous weapons, and mop up with crazy animals while you stay safely inside... Never used the latter, myself.

引用自 Morkonan
...No longer work in 1.0. :)

Maybe old trick with force attack animal sleeping spot still work - not checked it.

Good idea. Not playing 1.0, but it'd be nice if that would work. In .18, I use this so my low-skill shooters can at least contribute measurably to ranged combat.
Thop 2018 年 7 月 21 日 下午 9:26 
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=868218543
Pillbox>Killbox imo (idk if you want a mod or not)
Tal'Raziid 2018 年 7 月 21 日 下午 9:29 
oof, linking an abandoned mod for use. That said, there are other embrasure mods. Making bunkers certainly is ueful, especialliy if you build them in the side of a mountain and use tunnels as access points
Thop 2018 年 7 月 21 日 下午 11:41 
引用自 Tal'Raziid
oof, linking an abandoned mod for use. That said, there are other embrasure mods. Making bunkers certainly is ueful, especialliy if you build them in the side of a mountain and use tunnels as access points
Yeah it's abandoned but the two errors haven't changed how they function at all. Just like you, the mod author points out that there are other similar mods you can use, this one is just my personal favorite.
Tal'Raziid 2018 年 7 月 21 日 下午 11:45 
There's a REALLY useful mod called Mechanical Walls.
They require power, but can be recessed (lowered so you can walk over them), or turned into embrasures, and all three modes can change to the other two. Super useful for ambushes or escape routes, of course
Thop 2018 年 7 月 21 日 下午 11:58 
引用自 Tal'Raziid
There's a REALLY useful mod called Mechanical Walls.
They require power, but can be recessed (lowered so you can walk over them), or turned into embrasures, and all three modes can change to the other two. Super useful for ambushes or escape routes, of course
Damn son, I've got to look into that.
Tal'Raziid 2018 年 7 月 22 日 上午 12:01 
bunkers are even more dangerous when the AI doesnt know they're bunkers until the embrasures open xD
corisai 2018 年 7 月 22 日 上午 3:04 
Who need ancient embrasures when we'd space age tech? :steamhappy:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=726884610

P.S. Due engine limitation they aren't 100% protection. Mostly 99.9%.
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发帖日期: 2018 年 7 月 20 日 下午 9:49
回复数: 38