Why am I blamed for when manhunter packs kill traders or visitors

[MuchMucho]

Is it a bug or is it meant to be that way??

[Astasia]

Originally posted by MonthOLDpickle:

Is this hospitality a mod? I can't find what he is talking about.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=753498552

in a15 and a16 this mod had rep loss on NPC deaths on your map to balance out all the extra ways the mod adds to build up that rep and to curb certain exploits. I guess the exploit curbing introduced by that mod was made vanilla in a17 without the ease of building up said rep.

[Swirler]

Originally posted by Astasia:

I just tested it with dev mode. Spawned a caravan, used the lightning strike tool to kill them, got -5 rep for each death. WTF. Say goodbye to any sense of "diplomacy" in the game. Every is going to be hostile to you all the time eventually.

It's probably something Tynan will change but I can think of a way to justify this logic.

Say country W sends over a trade delegation to country Y, along the way inside country Y this trade delegation is attacked by bandits.

Diplomacy would break down a bit even IRL, because it would be hard to determine who attacked the group so by default the trade delegation will hold the country Y liable even if they didn't actually attack them.

It doesn't work so well in Rimworld but I can sort of understand the logic. Plus it stops the player from calling in trade caravans to steal the goods then execute the caravan without consequences.

[terracotta]

i remember once a turtle went manhunter and there were traders visiting. One had a gun and one had a knife. The one with the knife went to melee attack the turtle and the one with the gun went behind her, the one with the gun incapitated her friend and ran away.

[Astasia]

Originally posted by Mad hatters in jeans:

Plus it stops the player from calling in trade caravans to steal the goods then execute the caravan without consequences.

There were already mechanics in place to prevent that. If your pawns or turrets kill NPC pawns you get hostile with the faction instantly. If you try to trap their pawns on the map by walling them in, they break through the walls. The only way to kill a trade caravan without getting a faction hit before was to use controlled fire and burn them alive. Beyond that any other cause of death is going to be accidental or beyond the players control, so this mechanic is stupid and makes no sense. I mean he even stopped the exploit of playing on a super cold map and having caravans come in and freeze to death before reaching you by implementing a "safe temperature" range for friendly events.

[Zordah]

I had a pack of manhunter foxes show up last night and shortly after that a friendly band of traders arrived. The two groups fought it out a long way from my base with the traders winning although they lost a couple of people and animals.

Even though I was not directly involved - no traps/turrets and none of my guys fighting - I was still penalised 15 points of faction good will.

So I saved the game, edited the faction goodwill back up to the original amount, and then reloaded to keep playing.

I can understand it if they die to my base defences, or to my pawns really poor shooting, cause that would be my lack of care for their wellbeing but being penalised for wild animals attacking them is just totally unfair.

[Valky]

Originally posted by zordah:

I had a pack of manhunter foxes show up last night and shortly after that a friendly band of traders arrived. The two groups fought it out a long way from my base with the traders winning although they lost a couple of people and animals.

Even though I was not directly involved - no traps/turrets and none of my guys fighting - I was still penalised 15 points of faction good will.

So I saved the game, edited the faction goodwill back up to the original amount, and then reloaded to keep playing.

I can understand it if they die to my base defences, or to my pawns really poor shooting, cause that would be my lack of care for their wellbeing but being penalised for wild animals attacking them is just totally unfair.

Well imagine yourself an ambasador that send some of his dude to negotiate witha nother country, your guys die from terro attack on the country soil, who do you blame ? Them (the country) for poor anti terro organisations. Same apply in rimworld for wild animal killing friendly merchants, they come see you for friendly chat and trade, you become the warrant of the caravan safety once they arrive.

[Astasia]

Now I just had a wild panther "hunt" a doe that was part of a caravan. They opened fire on it and one of the caravan members died in the cross fire. I didn't lose any goodwill. Whatever the mechanic is, it's not every single death counts against you, but I don't know why them shooting each other is fine but being hit by lightning isn't.

[bigsengineer]

Originally posted by Astasia:

Now I just had a wild panther "hunt" a doe that was part of a caravan. They opened fire on it and one of the caravan members died in the cross fire. I didn't lose any goodwill. Whatever the mechanic is, it's not every single death counts against you, but I don't know why them shooting each other is fine but being hit by lightning isn't.

i think it applies after they have reached the waiting area in ur coloney and while the leave maybe? noticed the same thing callen in a carvan, ship crashed, started martaring ship, caravan got wiped by angry robats. all this led to free loot for me with no bad will. so it seems theres more to it than just in ur zone

[Astasia]

They were in their trading area when the panther attacked, standing right outside my walls milling around. In my test with the lightning bolts they were still at the edge of the map. I dunno.

[Zordah]

Originally posted by Valky:

Originally posted by zordah:

I had a pack of manhunter foxes show up last night and shortly after that a friendly band of traders arrived. The two groups fought it out a long way from my base with the traders winning although they lost a couple of people and animals.

Even though I was not directly involved - no traps/turrets and none of my guys fighting - I was still penalised 15 points of faction good will.

So I saved the game, edited the faction goodwill back up to the original amount, and then reloaded to keep playing.

I can understand it if they die to my base defences, or to my pawns really poor shooting, cause that would be my lack of care for their wellbeing but being penalised for wild animals attacking them is just totally unfair.

Well imagine yourself an ambasador that send some of his dude to negotiate witha nother country, your guys die from terro attack on the country soil, who do you blame ? Them (the country) for poor anti terro organisations. Same apply in rimworld for wild animal killing friendly merchants, they come see you for friendly chat and trade, you become the warrant of the caravan safety once they arrive.

They had not yet arrived at my base so as far as I am concerned they are not under my protection yet.

In your example my ambassador was killed by terrorists en route to the other country but had not yet arrived so it's not the destinations country fault. I would blame the terrorists and not the country I was traveling to :P

[Zordah]

Originally posted by bigsengineer:

Originally posted by Astasia:

Now I just had a wild panther "hunt" a doe that was part of a caravan. They opened fire on it and one of the caravan members died in the cross fire. I didn't lose any goodwill. Whatever the mechanic is, it's not every single death counts against you, but I don't know why them shooting each other is fine but being hit by lightning isn't.

i think it applies after they have reached the waiting area in ur coloney and while the leave maybe? noticed the same thing callen in a carvan, ship crashed, started martaring ship, caravan got wiped by angry robats. all this led to free loot for me with no bad will. so it seems theres more to it than just in ur zone

Nope in my case they were still enroute to my colonies waiting area and hadn't actually reached my base yet.

[GuessMDK]

If a caravan loses people from any source OTHER then infighting, you get the faction hit. Been that way for a while now.....

[Astasia]

Originally posted by GuessMDK:

If a caravan loses people from any source OTHER then infighting, you get the faction hit. Been that way for a while now.....

No it hasn't been that way for a while. I played a lot of A16, including some super frigid maps where I force spawned caravans in (as part of the scenario) and they would usually have a few pawns freeze to death on my map with no rep hit. I also tested manhunter packs and raids killing caravans in A16 and there was no rep hit. The only way you lost rep from caravan deaths in A16 or earlier was if your pawns directly caused the deaths.

People are also confirming some cases in A17 where mechanoids and bugs are killing caravans and they aren't losing rep. So it's not as simple as "any source other than infighting."

[GuessMDK]

Ive always had the issue of visitors dieing in my map from pretty much any source and then id be forced to return their future raiders untill my rep was good enough for silver gifts.

[Astasia]

Like I mentioned before the Hospitality mod has had that mechanic since like A15. It wasn't base game until A17. A lot of people assumed it was base game previously because a lot of people never play without Hospitality.