Engine Families Creation

[Zohnann]

Hi guys,

first of all, I love the game and I have lost count of how many engines, cars I have created so far.

With buiding all these engines, I have encountered something that is bothering me more and more.

I am building an 3.5L V6 engine family starting in the 80s, starting it with for example a 2v head, and single point injection to try to keep it period correct. Then I want to improve it by small steps, (MPFI, Turbo, DI, you name it). However, I can't change my head style, and I am stuck with my crappy old 2v head on my engine.

It would be so much better to treat the head design as an "evolvable component" such as fuelling. So far the only way is to keep note of the base dimensions of the block and create its newer brother with the newer head design, which i find a little annoying when managing multiple engines lineups.

It would then allow us to create engine families as the car manufacturers did in the 90's, with varying capacities, and where, to make the sporty version you simply drop a 16v head on your old iron block 4 cylinder (such lazy dimwits).


I have scoured the forums and haven't found this topic and I wanted to see if any agreed with me of I am the only one who find it irritating.

Then again, love the game, I know you can't please everyone, hope I don't come across as an entitled jerk (not my mother language), and I can't wait for the V12!


Zohnann

[Don Julio]

Nice.

[Killrob]

Ohh, there are plenty of people who have the exact same complaints or issues with the current system as you do. It has been brought up several times but yeah, the search function on our forums is not the best to put it mildly.

The system is limiting because in this case "reality" or rather IRL car company marketing is bogus. How could you consider an engine still be in the same family if only the block remains the same? We draw the line before then and "only" allow to change everything apart from block and head design :) that won't change either.

This limitation comes with interesting game mechanics as an up-side though: engines within the same falily can be built in the same factory, so you need to put some thought into how you make good use of every engine family. You see this wouldn't make much sense if we allowed just about any change within engine variants. Also, the more often you engineer certain parts, the quicker it will be to engineer these parts in future, so the effect you are after still would be there, you would pay little to make yet another I4 iron block, but the new head design would take quite a few months to engineer for. :)

Cheers!

[HorseMeat]

Originally posted by Killrob:

Ohh, there are plenty of people who have the exact same complaints or issues with the current system as you do. It has been brought up several times but yeah, the search function on our forums is not the best to put it mildly.

The system is limiting because in this case "reality" or rather IRL car company marketing is bogus. How could you consider an engine still be in the same family if only the block remains the same? We draw the line before then and "only" allow to change everything apart from block and head design :) that won't change either.

This limitation comes with interesting game mechanics as an up-side though: engines within the same falily can be built in the same factory, so you need to put some thought into how you make good use of every engine family. You see this wouldn't make much sense if we allowed just about any change within engine variants. Also, the more often you engineer certain parts, the quicker it will be to engineer these parts in future, so the effect you are after still would be there, you would pay little to make yet another I4 iron block, but the new head design would take quite a few months to engineer for. :)

Cheers!

I agree in both cases, but there are some glaring real life examples of where the block and internals remain fairly the same, but the valvetrain has major changes. The ford V8 mod motors of the 90's are major case in point. the 4.6 Liter engines are specifically designed to have interchangeable heads, and make anywhere from 210-400 horespower. The reason they're called the mod motor, in fact is not because they ARE modular but rather the factory that builds them requires minimal retooling between prodcution runs to make each variant of the family. The factory is actually modular. It's probably coincidence that the heads are fairly interchangable without too too much work.

Honda also has a habit of making multiple different heads for motor families. H, B and K Series all come to mind.

Not an argument in either direction, just an observation. I admit my annoyance when I simply want to make the same engine with a sporty 16v version for the uprated version of a car, but just the simpler, less expensive, 8v for the family model. I could also just have a dozen differet engines I suppose. I could also complain about having to make a different version of an engine, within a family, for every different exhaust layout I wanted, instead of just as a trim option. IE quiet for the luxury model, but brash and unrestricted for the super sport... But that one bothers me less for some reason.

In the end what I end up doing, is making two engine families with the same name and then adding (*v) on the end of the family name (where *= number of valves per engine). annoying but it's a simple enough work around. In sandbox mode where there's no detraction or time lost because you aren't really doing anything but playing around and seeing what you can do, it's no major thing. It might be a little different in game mode, depending on how time and money is managed.

[rook]

Originally posted by Luka:

Originally posted by Killrob:

Ohh, there are plenty of people who have the exact same complaints or issues with the current system as you do. It has been brought up several times but yeah, the search function on our forums is not the best to put it mildly.

The system is limiting because in this case "reality" or rather IRL car company marketing is bogus. How could you consider an engine still be in the same family if only the block remains the same? We draw the line before then and "only" allow to change everything apart from block and head design :) that won't change either.

This limitation comes with interesting game mechanics as an up-side though: engines within the same falily can be built in the same factory, so you need to put some thought into how you make good use of every engine family. You see this wouldn't make much sense if we allowed just about any change within engine variants. Also, the more often you engineer certain parts, the quicker it will be to engineer these parts in future, so the effect you are after still would be there, you would pay little to make yet another I4 iron block, but the new head design would take quite a few months to engineer for. :)

Cheers!

I agree in both cases, but there are some glaring real life examples of where the block and internals remain fairly the same, but the valvetrain has major changes. The ford V8 mod motors of the 90's are major case in point. the 4.6 Liter engines are specifically designed to have interchangeable heads, and make anywhere from 210-400 horespower. The reason they're called the mod motor, in fact is not because they ARE modular but rather the factory that builds them requires minimal retooling between prodcution runs to make each variant of the family. The factory is actually modular. It's probably coincidence that the heads are fairly interchangable without too too much work.

Honda also has a habit of making multiple different heads for motor families. H, B and K Series all come to mind.

Not an argument in either direction, just an observation. I admit my annoyance when I simply want to make the same engine with a sporty 16v version for the uprated version of a car, but just the simpler, less expensive, 8v for the family model. I could also just have a dozen differet engines I suppose. I could also complain about having to make a different version of an engine, within a family, for every different exhaust layout I wanted, instead of just as a trim option. IE quiet for the luxury model, but brash and unrestricted for the super sport... But that one bothers me less for some reason.

In the end what I end up doing, is making two engine families with the same name and then adding (*v) on the end of the family name (where *= number of valves per engine). annoying but it's a simple enough work around. In sandbox mode where there's no detraction or time lost because you aren't really doing anything but playing around and seeing what you can do, it's no major thing. It might be a little different in game mode, depending on how time and money is managed.

Toyota also does the same. I would love to be able to use the same engine family across light pickups, sedans, and SUVs. It would be nice to even just be allowed to copy and paste an engine into a new build. The easiest method I found is just to make a model with 4-5 variants using the same basic engine (1-3 variants-turbo/fuel/stroke/etc). But I get the developers point, so many times I build a sportscar/low volume model that introduces new engine features and then design a large volume model with an engine using the R&D from the sports engine to keep costs low and increase reliability (toyota method :) )