Actually Driving the vehicles?

[Jango ッ]

I dont know if this was ever a plan for this game but i thought it would be great. Was it ever an idea to actually be able to drive the cars like a car company version of kerbal space program? or is that not on the radar?

[Daffyflyer]

^What he said.

[Greif]

Цитата допису 𝕲𝖗𝖎𝖋𝖋𝖎𝖓:

People can't read... Ok.

Yes, yes I can:

you said that a race team manager where you design your own cars should be part of the game, introduced as dlc.

That is literally shoehorningin in a feature completely out of scope of the original game. If you would like me to explain why doing this is so difficult, let me know.

[Greif]

"...Shoehorning can also refer to an unnatural-seeming inclusion of something for reasons which may range anywhere from demographic-pleasing..."

That is the definition of the figurative sense of shoehorning (taken from the Wikipedia)

There are two parts of this definition that are relevant to this conversation: unnatural-seeming, and demographic-pleasing.

The addition of a driving sim to Automation would seem unnatural as it is completely out of scope of the original game (which is building and selling road cars). It would also be demographic pleasing, as there is a large group of people in the automation community which want a driving sim added to the game.

lastly, in this very thread, the lead developer of Automation agreed with me on this, so it may be somewhat difficult for you to form a credible argument.

[Smiked pope residuals]

Doesn't the very first post say it all, lol. I reflected on it.

[Tycondero]

Цитата допису GrIfFiN:

But your car creation part... Guys, it's crying for a race. I want to drive the car I just created so much, that I don’t want to even bother with tycoon. That’s my opinion... And here is my advice (if you are interested) - do what you do, finish your tycoon game. And as you are done with it, keep adding up things to your game. Not just some kind of other engines, add a new gameplay into it. Maybe a racing manager, for starters. At some point, you might be able to add a real racing sim in there, that would be your ultimate goal. IMHO.

This sums it up very nicely. In a way it is very funny and I can see that the Automation dev team gets a bit tired of these discussions. Some people want to drive, others want to kick out the car design part as they feel it waters down the tycoon part.

Ok, let me try to explain how I stand in all of this, from a realism and a desire point of view towards both the dev team and as a player of Automation.

Automation is atm a car design game, as it is still early access. Automation is going to be a tycoon game within the next year of ongoing development. Ultimately, what Automation will be is a game in which you design cars, run a company and try to be good at it. It will also have a sandbox mode, which is effectively atm the only game mode available (for now). Here you can design everything without having to bother about the future tycoon aspect, so that will cover those that do not care about the tycoon part.

Now, about the driving your creations. I fully agree, and I'm completely sure the devs (in their hearts) would agree as well, but the thing is that their team is too small to create such a thing from scratch. They have been working on this current game already for a fair number of years and it is still not finished within the next year (I would assume). Do people realize what will happen if more stuff needs to be added of such a scope? That could easily mean more than a year of development time (for them) and likely the final product is going to be something the community will not like and they will not like as they couldn't make it in a way they feel good about (given the time and money restrictions). And then there is the biggest question, would the main gameplay of the game significantly improve to what the devs want to achieve by adding such a big addition? No, because most people would probably give it a try a couple of times, it would start to feel old as it is not essential and they would ignore it most of the time. Also for them they can never achieve the amount of graphical detail and realism like a proper racing simulator can offer, which has way more funding and game developers to make it.

Does this mean I do not care or want to drive my creations? Sure, I would like to. I would like to do so a lot, but I understand their limitations and I would rather see them finish this soon and well and look into the future after that. I think you agree with me here.

A racing team simulator within Automation is a bit different on the other hand. Why? Because the game already has a test track simulator. I assume here that for the small dev team, making a decent 2D racing team simulator is going to require way less effort and is going to be a better finished product within their programming and graphics skills. Furthermore, as there are very few racing team simulators out there (and most seem to be bad) there is not that much competition and to compare with either, therefore people will also be happy about what they come up with sooner than start complaining why X is not in like game Y has.

Would 3D racing or trying to test your creation be impossible then? No, but I think that if this has any chance to be in or alongside the game, either Automation should sell so well that they make millions and millions of dollars (so they can create a bigger team) or some third party game development studio that already has a proper racing or driving sim should be interested in making a converter to port Automation cars. Even if Automation would sell extremely well, then still it is more likely that they will sooner make a proper driving simulation game with an Automation converter, rather than something within Automation.

Btw something I did think the developers mentioned once, was that they might consider a nicer visual representation of your car driving around a test track. You wouldn't be able to drive your creation yourself, but you would see the car drive itself on a preset path. If they make this in a proper way so you can see the limits of the car (speed, cornering, bump tests) then I would definitely settle for that. It would give you some feedback you can use and allow you to admire your creation as well without requiring all of the difficulties of making a driving simulator (including controls).

I hope it will ever happen, but I wouldn't like the game less if it never does happen.

[Daffyflyer]

Speaking as one of the developers. I agree with everything Van Diemen says in the above post. Absolutely on point there.

[Smiked pope residuals]

Man, I saw this post come up (from Van diemen [at first {wierd name btw}]) and sighed, thinking it was another complaint/criticism again, uugghh. Many good points, however, going over the top of the very first post I thought eliminated any possible critiquing people might of had dissagreeing with the developers. Other than the typoes and grammer flaws {really, harts...}, I agreed with much of it, (I won't even spell check out of respect for rational thought).

I would like to add that I think maybe Automation 2 or something to the effect of designing every other mode of transportation would be extremely welcome as well. (discussed at some length in post "Just an idea") I would hate to think that this model type product (for lack of better definition) would be handed off to a subcontractor to be done with less pinache' (wanna spell check) and just plain quality overall, but, that is not my decision and I try not to judge.

In a perfect world we would be driving our own crap by now, or, real manufacterers would produce better vehicles negating the "want" to see something done better. The economy of the world would be better meaning people would receive their full labors worth and this game would have been done by now. Not sure about other countries, but, America I have estimated (based on the gold standard theory of mine) that the dollars worth has been watered down to greater than 1/30th of it's potential value. Inflation, printing money, rich people changing it's value artificially, being overtaxed, and this artificial debt that hung (believing things already started improving) over the entire planets flow of currency that grew to such an extent that there isn't enough currency in circulation to pay for all the debts' interest. (Just ask me and I may rant).

Be that as it may, I am itching to see engineering as a whole work to it's utmost for each and every person. I think about the lazy pushrods breathing like crap up top and wanna puke on every LS motor ever produced. Once I saw an article on "why the LS motor is so good" and with knowledge (thanks to this game) wanna put a Mopar in my Corvette. (I almost wish I drove that).

This game (Automation) is such a unique thing, I wanna see its stickers on every stop sign, be listed on the stock market, and see their implimentation (short of this gets censored {really steam?}) wiener thrusting it's way into every Forza, Gran Turismo, and Racing game there is. If anything, just to be obvious that a great number of people can design something that out performs what come out of most showrooms. I feel like they (industry) has been feeding us crap and am a little piturbed (SPELL CHECK!), lol.

Man, that felt good to get out, even if this might be a whimper by scope, cheers anyways.

You may consider this just a brainfart, but, considering the theory of a better representation of a test track I was also thinking along the lines of one geared more for testing offroad vehicles. I don't know if that could be 3d with the new engine or linear and with obsticles ,but, things like suspension travel, tipping points, verticle climb angles, and tug of war type of tests (just to spit off whats on top of my head) might be worth a gander. Just a thought, I hope your nostrils aren't singed. spell check...

[Tycondero]

I think that there were at least some sort of off-road tracks available by the Automation community. I don't know whether they are still available for the current versions though and you should really consider them as mods (not polished).

Btw you are saying that people can design cars that are better than what is produced right now by car manufacturers. I personally cannot judge that so much, but I'm pretty sure that in real life designing a car will be a bit more complicated than in Automation. That said, some manufacturers do tend to overestimate their own achievements. Automation at least offered me insights into all the sense and nonsense of car manufacturers. What seems to be the biggest eye opener though is that a lot of cars might actually be built at way lower costs than what people pay for it. Sure, we kind of know all of that, but the real sales margins on cars remain some of the best kept secrets. I wouldn't be surprised that if it were not for all the R&D necessary to build high-performance cars, a Ferrari for instance could possibly be built for maybe under 75.000 euros/dollars. You do not really pay so much for the materials or manual labor there!

Anyway, I'm pretty happy with the game and I put more than enough hours into it (and the community on the Automation forums) to have my 25 euros worth out of it. Some of the best spend money I ever did, considering I sometimes buy a game that costs more and is a huge let down and abandoned after a couple of hours.

Btw checked for spelling and revised the previous post too ;). Btw steam censored me typing your name, lol.

[Smiked pope residuals]

I concur, Ferrari's I believe could be more of a "common vehicle," at least less exclusive. Too much for "elite" type of materials and gold trim to diamond incrusted headlights. These things could be stamped out with quality design/engineering as a normal expected thing. No need for cars to lack the ability to rev high, why cars have much more torque than horsepower is an excuse to keep quality at a premium and efficiency as second priority, if it's even that important. The recources of this planet should not be squandered not to mention kept by any who "think" their poop don't stink and/or are worth more. Plus, cars like ferrari seem to have engines that perform better and get gunked up less. My science is thin on the sludge aspect if I'm honest.

I've been in the presence of car dealers and it most often seemed to be a "inside man" kinda vibe. Not always unpleasant, it does however leave me longing with the thought of, why is anything kept from the public at large. Maybe sharpshooting, I never thought secrets were nice to begin with. I feel almost like the need to make a tee time and consider sleeping with their daughter is the only way I'd get a real price. I digress, for now. It's not like that's a real problem like black people are second class by default or by their own choosing due to ignorance themselves of their own history and really being white.

Completely unknown to most people that the migration of the planet all started (leaving out the Lemuria/Atlantis presence) north of Africa (PBS special where thousands of mouths swabbed and checked for dna similarity) and they simply moved south, got burnt (due to lack of shelter resources {I've deduced}), then all the biggest/strongest sold (best guess w/recources available) to the ocean goers and dragged over here. Indentured servitude has nothing to do with where in this country one lives or how each state differs philosopohically. (<--- if sarcasm wasn't noticed there, {sigh}) I really am trying to digress, I think. Necesarry education too on some level I believe. Anyways...

As for the other modded test tracks, I claim ignorance yet again. Thanks, and worthy to consider I spose', not expecting much however. The Nurbergring was missing the mark somewhat.

Almost forgot to concure with "Griffin" too about the possibilities Automation has in it's future. Ditto on probably as good a guess as I about how to get the most out of this game. I really am kinda stoked about it.

Btw...My name rolls off of the tongue like a whisper from a kitten, BAD joke, bad... Disregard, I didn't say that. Forget it, i have more class. Boo on sensorship, don't cuss infront of the kids... The little &@^#$. =)

[Daffyflyer]

" Indentured servitude has nothing to do with where in this country one lives or how each state differs philosopohically. "

Uh... I don't mean to interrupt here, but wtf does any of this have to do with if we should implement driving cars in Automation? Please take your off topic stuff elsewhere.

[Smiked pope residuals]

If you really are concerned, the north and south primarily, there are particular differences with each state, law they practice, and the particular differences of each state or republic, big difference.

The relevence to the game I have already stated, it would be done already if the economy wasn't upside down (and time to have been worked properly). So, I didn't intend on ruffling any feathers but all that IS relevent to vehicles altogether at the very least.

Granted a few tangents were considered and a few steps taken backwards (if you will) were factored to better understand the entire topic, but, slavery is always relevent when it exists. I'll grant you this might not be the best platform for it's discussion, if you don't see the connections, sir, I can't help you with that. Some believe it's all about money, can much happen without it? Like oil to an engine, it would fail. Neither should money be the primary point as it is a tool to utilize.

I beg your pardon if my candor seemed a bit sharp, but, I stand behind everything I say. With all due respect, good day.

[Daffyflyer]

I'm sure it's an interesting discussion, but you're posting it in a Steam forum thread about if we should put a driving simulator into Automation.

Go find an appropriate other forum to talk about US politics and slavery and such please.

[Smiked pope residuals]

10-4 I meant not to impose, nor do I ever intend to again. My condolences.

[dogdaddonga]

unreal engine x has a very easy way to make drivable vehicles though i think it would be a great addition.

[Smiked pope residuals]

Whats wierd is that Automation and actually driving simulated cars are very much intwined in the same catagory, but, seem to be stuck at polar opposite sides. The Unreal Engine (for those who don't know IS in the works of being implemented with Automation) would be the option/tool to use if there ever was one. Out of my field of knowledge here, but, perhaps it is a bit like lego's and could somehow piece together once the games spoke similar languages or found a way to mesh. Dunno, I guessing optimism with the many options already considered. I feel like the future is coming, just that it's in slow motion and the anticipation is too much. (Big car fan with a sugar high, lol). I think thats a compliment to the game...