Prices have drastically changed.

[yeshuaman1983]

If I may offer some constructive critisism in the most polite respectful way that I can. I think the prices of the cars now are way off. Before the update happened I made a car with negative 15 quality on all the parts and it costed only 9,000 dollars to make. Now it costs 20,000 dollars. And normal cars I've been making like Replicas of real cars used to cost the same as what they do at real dealerships but now they cost way more. I think the way you had the prices was better and more realistic.

[Boudewijn]

You must have chosen some expensive parts for it to come out at 20,000, with -15 quality. And yes, the prices have increased a lot

[RiftHunter4]

Sandbox or Campaign?

[Killrob]

The "Approximate Cost" in sandbox has been changed to reflect more on engineering time and production units - all costs are very roughly in 2010 dollars. Indeed it is higher that it was before and there is no way to make it correct for every car because there are so many factors that are unknown in sandbox. Now a mundane factory new family car costs 20000 instead of way too low 10000 like before. Super- / Hypercars no longer cost 60000 but closer to 200000. Overall we think this is an improvement from a realism point of view.

If you have concrete examples of cars that are wildly off that aren't extreme cars, then you're welcome to point them out and share.

[RiftHunter4]

Originally posted by Killrob:

The "Approximate Cost" in sandbox has been changed to reflect more on engineering time and production units - all costs are very roughly in 2010 dollars. Indeed it is higher that it was before and there is no way to make it correct for every car because there are so many factors that are unknown in sandbox. Now a mundane factory new family car costs 20000 instead of way too low 10000 like before. Super- / Hypercars no longer cost 60000 but closer to 200000. Overall we think this is an improvement from a realism point of view.

If you have concrete examples of cars that are wildly off that aren't extreme cars, then you're welcome to point them out and share.

That's what I figured. So are the prices kind of set, then? As in the year doesn't affect them much in Sandbox?

[Killrob]

Originally posted by RiftHunter4:

That's what I figured. So are the prices kind of set, then? As in the year doesn't affect them much in Sandbox?

Yes, they are kinda set, depend on material costs for engine and car, production units for engine and car, and engineering times for engine and car. Older cars will be a little cheaper because they are less complex, but there is no inflation that is considered or anything.

[yeshuaman1983]

Would a youtube video of my examples suffice?

[Killrob]

Originally posted by yeshuaman1983:

Would a youtube video of my examples suffice?

Sure would, but even better would be a few example cars you've built as an example, with the game's price and the price the car (if it is a replica) or a very similar car originally was sold at. If you export the car for sharing to get the .car file, that is easy to handle :) just make sure to not use mods for this if you want us to open them :)

[yeshuaman1983]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3APYfYdOJU&feature=youtu.be

Hello Killrob, sorry it took so long to make this video for you about my opinion on the prices of the vehicles now.

[Killrob]

Hey! Thanks so much for taking the time to make the video. Let me comment while going through it.

The cost calculation at the moment is:
Dollar Value = (Car + Engine Material Costs) + 25 * (Car + Engine Production Units) + (Car Engineering Time * Car Production Units) + (Engine Engineering Time * Engine Production Units)

Mirage: Ok, that seems like you found a good example of a car that is calculated to have a too high retail price at first glance. Your build is very reasonable, the only (irrelevant) thing that is off is the suspension tuning. ;D Good choices on the components, I think this is a fair comparison. The only thing that I would point out here is that this car seems to be made for the budget end of the market and would be mass-produced, probably in the equivalent of a Large-2 factory.

IRL Mitsubishi does have quite a bit of tech pool at this stage (between +5 to +10 in most categories), and I doubt they are using much of that tech in this case to make the car cheaper, not better. The tech that is in this car will also be familiar to them, further reducing engineering costs, which are a significant portion of that price calculation.

DI vs. MPFI: Yes! That is something that was pointed out to me about a month back by Andrew on our team, it is something that we'll change. DI should be way less reliable when it first is introduced and then for the very end of the game be almost as reliable as MPFI, but never more reliable.

Challenger: On your engine build you went with some wonky settings, what really drives up the price here is your engineering time due to the +10 quality. You have 575 months of engineering time in that, which is about 5-8 times as much as that engine should have. :)
I just tried to build the engine myself and without quality (apart from the +2 in top end) I got 278 performance index with a 2012 engine design year and the same capacity, only using 45.5 production units and 119 months of raw engineering time. According to the cost calc formula the engine costs:

1660 + 25 * 45.5 + 45.5 * 119 = $8212 in my case
4700 + 25 * 90.3 + 90.3 * 575 = $58880 in your case

So if we used my engine build, your car would be $50000 cheaper. :) I think at that point you could argue that with a few more little tweaks, your car would pretty much cost (or slightly more, which it should) as much as it does IRL.

You could argue that actually the game should overestimate the price quite a bit in this case as this is another case of a high familiarity build for the company producing it, and much of the tech they have goes into making it cheaper, not better. There are a few choices you made for the trim which I believe are on the cheaper side, so overall I think this is about right for approximate sales price.

10-speed Automatic: That would be very easy to add, we may do that in future, a few people have asked for that.

Mustang: For almost identical engine specs:
Your engine cost: 5800 + 25 * 270.6 + 270.6 * 829.8 = $237100
My engine cost: 1700 + 25 * 62.6 + 62.6 * 138.8 = $12000

So that would make your car $225000 cheaper.

The brake setup you use there seems to be strange, would be good to take a look at the actual IRL implementation. In Automation that is a little limited because we don't have an overall brake force slider. I went with vented discs, less pistons, at zero quality. Better tires though!

Overall the car comes out at a price of $34300 for me, which is about right.

Civic: Again, the issue is the engine for the most part. :)

Cheapest Car: Not sure what you are doing there. I built a car to be the cheapest viable car that still scores above 80 in the Pony category (5L V8) (without using too much negative quality, basically all at zero) and the price that comes out is $14500. If you then think of cheaping out in production that could easily go down to something like $12000 or less. :)


So to summarize: Overall I think the cost calculations are about as accurate as they can be, if you understand the importance of engineering time and production units.

Thanks a lot for the video and the builds! I hope this reply and your video helps people better understand where you guys go wrong. :D

Cheers!

[yeshuaman1983]

Dear Killrob, On the Mirage it was brought to my attention some things I could do to it and I was able to get it cheaper to around 14,000 dollars, which is cheaper but not around the 9,000 to 10,500 that I'm looking for it to fit in. I switched it to what the mirage actually has with is dohc 2 valves and got more fuel mileage and was able to put cheaper partial aluminum and multiport fuel injection and still get between 70 and 80 on horsepower and torque with 41 mpg. But the engine reliability dropped to 56 when it was above 60. I believe Mitsubishi offers a 60 month warranty on their engines. and the 0 to 62 time went up to 13.4 seconds which I think is slower than the real mirage. That's okay in other countries but here in the usa I would get ran over pulling out on the highway where i have to accelerate quickly to 70mph. I think 12 seconds to 11 seconds would be safer.

When you made the Ford 5.0 and the Dodge 5.7 liter, did you get 435 horsepower and 400 foot lbs of torque on the Ford? In the brochure I have it was tested with 93 aki octane so it's okay to set it up for 93 octane. And did you get 375 horsepower with 400 to 410 ft lbs torque on the Dodge engine? The Ford is supposed to be a 2017 engine and the Dodge is supposed to be a 2019 engine. Could you send those 2 engines you made to me so I can put them in my cars and see if I'm still getting the mpg that I should be getting and I'll recheck the prices again if you don't mind. If you send those engines to me I think I'll learn something.