FFXIII is the best FF until now.

[Harkonnen Vanguard]

Gorgeous graphics, exciting story, epic (and sad) ending. Forget the haters and buy now. :)

[That1BIGDude]

Originally posted by Hoshi:

My first computer was an Amiga 500 I got in 1989, I played VII first time in 1999 (pc version as I never owned a console until a few years ago), it was the first FF I played. So somehow claiming I am someone from a new generation that only cares about graphics is futile.

Since then I have played most FFs (everything except II and XII) and VII is definitivly one of my favorites. Other than XIII it's the only FF I have played thru multiple times. BUT XIII is still significantly better. It has by far the best combat system of any JRPG I have played (my second favorite is the system in Grandia 2 but that game was overall a bit too easy). It's not even a contest, the combat in VII is very simplistic like most early JRPGs.

I also very much like how they managed to work around many of the old tropes of the genre. Stuff like how the stores always have better stuff the futher you go from the capital city and having a resonable explanation to how much more powerful the the characters are towards the end of the game compared to the begining (and no, getting "experienced" by fighting stuff is not an explanation, it's a cop-out as most of the time the characters are already supposed to be experienced fighters when the games start). Sadly the decided to reintroduce many of these troupes in XIII-2 which is one of the reasons why is so much worse game than XIII.

i think that the combat systemin ff13 is a decent system but there are defenetly some things wrong with it and i can see why allot of people dont like personally my favorite combat systems are in FF12 and the one in the ff15 demo however i can see how some dont think those count because they are not turnbase but rather fully reall time live action as for turn base one i would have to say 10 because they let you change between aall you character and having the person you walk as die does not equal game over

[Vesperal]

Well, if FF7R can catch the "spot of one of your favorite FF games", and you considered FF7 as "okay", then explain me what the gap from good to excellent is apart from graphics/engine ? We end up to the exact same point I was talking about.

[talgaby]

FFVII mature? o.O FFVII has probably the most childish story in the main series, completed with the single most clichéd and most often parodised barely-more-than-one-dimensional pretty boy with a long sword antagonist in video game and anime history. When it originally came out I stopped playing it because the plot was so mind-numbingly dumb compared to FFV/VI that it was almost insulting. And yeah, the graphics were horrible back then. Not just now, back then too.

It is a damn good game in retrospect, a really fine JRPG, one of the best of its time. But the plot is still weak and relies heavily on the "oooooooh, they killed an actual protagonist" and "Sepiroth is cool, m'kay" factor. The combat system is a joke and the materia system is one of the most needlessly overconvoluted and stupid character boost systems I have ever seen in my life, probably topping many current Korean MMORPGs (and they sure know how to make things needlessly complicated to make you farm more than it is rational on any level).
Still, for its time, it was really good.
For its time.
15 years ago.
But in terms of aging, the older FFVI or Chrono Trigger did a helluva better job.

Even FFVIII did, even though it suffered from almost all of the problems FFVII had, including small things such as the incredibly childishly dumb terrorist group who were sold as the "good guys", the needless and easily exploited advancement system, the non-existent combat difficulty, and a strange ailment that made every person on the world funtionally brain dead and incapable of addressing even the most basic issues without the help of some randomly wandering teenagers who liked to carry their oversized weapons in public. Oh, and the mandatory pretty boy antagonist, who thankfully was equally portrayed as a moron, not just a cool guy, because even the director may have realised that Seifer as a main baddie is less than a joke.
But… it hid it behind an incredibly cheesy love story that worked for the most part, and love stories age better than that emo-ish teenage angst/generic bad guy tries to kill the world because reasons one in FFVII. (The Ultimecia part was bad though, really, really bad with her being one of the worst antagonists in FF history in terms of character and motivation… even Sepiroth was better in the end.)

FFVII is popular and best-seller because it was the first FF that was marketed in the West and also the first on in 3D after gods know how many years of the same-looking FFs on Famicon/(S)NES systems. Simple as that. If FFVIII would have been the first PSX game, it would be considered the best. If FFV, then that. Regardless of story and characters and mechanics. That's the sad truth behind the veil of nostalgia and built-up hype.

But under all the goofiness and half-broken mechanics, a large potential exists for FFVII. The characters, despite almost being a set of parodies for the genre, work well and have a good chemistry. The dialogue is solid (in English at least), and the plot, depite its clichéd nature and many flaws, is really exciting.
So if the remake really is more than a graphical overhaul and they address the many issues of the original and just build on the world/characters/plot, but throw away everything else and devise a working game mechanic, it really can be the best FF ever. As it is now? Nah, maybe somewhere around top3 or top5 in the main series.

[PhandoKin]

FFVII has some more mature themes... like don corneo testing his new "material", the obvious offensive language of Barret, we rarely see this in FF series.
The childish, for those I played is IX, but curiously is my favourite, probably because it was the first I played. If I played VII, VIII, X, X-2, XII, XIII it's because of that one.
And I like all, some have better story, some have better environment (I like more the medieval style), some have understandable combat system than others.
XIII is nice, the combat system is ok, but depends on the role of the leader.
The story is superior to XII for example, though I find XII with better gorgeous environment.
It's a fine game despite the linearity, though I guess the linearity of the game comes from the story itself, the run away that can't let us look back ( explore).
SE has a hard job:
if they keep the combat system, they outdated, no ideas...
if they change, they did garbage to those more interested in a new ff that only changes stories but keeps elementary basis like combat system...
Well, some might want changes but end up disappointed with those same changes.
I played this knowing the criticism on it, though it's not perfect, it's not horrible too.

[Vlad]

Originally posted by RTK Vesper:

Well, if FF7R can catch the "spot of one of your favorite FF games", and you considered FF7 as "okay", then explain me what the gap from good to excellent is apart from graphics/engine ? We end up to the exact same point I was talking about.

"Tetsuya Nomura has one again indicated the recently announced Final Fantasy 7 revival may be more reimagination than remake."[www.gamespot.com]
Guess it helps to read up on what you're talking about, right?

[KarmaTheAlligator]

Originally posted by pedronuno82:

FFVII has some more mature themes... like don corneo testing his new "material", the obvious offensive language of Barret, we rarely see this in FF series.
The childish, for those I played is IX, but curiously is my favourite, probably because it was the first I played.

You don't consider kidnapping, genocide and slavery mature theme? Because IX had plenty of those. Compared to theses, VII's "mature themes" really pale.

[brunosiffredi]

The problem with FFXIII is that it eliminates the exploration and adventure element that traditionally are present in JRPGs. While games like FFVI had towns with NPCs who would hint at your next objective rather than the UI telling you exactly what to do next, FFXIII has you going through corridor like levels following the arrow on the map all the time.

However, once we get over that and judge the game for what it is and not what it isn't, it's undeniable that FFXIII has a lot of quality too. The combat is really great, the animations and environments look amazing and some of the cut-scenes are breathtaking. The story itself is a bunch of anime nonsense, but it's well structured and consistent. It's not a bad game.

[Lobstersaurus]

Originally posted by Bruno:

The problem with FFXIII is that it eliminates the exploration and adventure element that traditionally are present in JRPGs. While games like FFVI had towns with NPCs who would hint at your next objective rather than the UI telling you exactly what to do next, FFXIII has you going through corridor like levels following the arrow on the map all the time.

However, once we get over that and judge the game for what it is and not what it isn't, it's undeniable that FFXIII has a lot of quality too. The combat is really great, the animations and environments look amazing and some of the cut-scenes are breathtaking. The story itself is a bunch of anime nonsense, but it's well structured and consistent. It's not a bad game.

This guy gets it /thread everyone.

I think all of the FF games have been mature games, but that's just my opinion. I think I was creeped out the most by the beastiality scene the in FF7.

[Vlad]

Originally posted by Bruno:

The problem with FFXIII is that it eliminates the exploration and adventure element that traditionally are present in JRPGs. While games like FFVI had towns with NPCs who would hint at your next objective rather than the UI telling you exactly what to do next, FFXIII has you going through corridor like levels following the arrow on the map all the time.

However, once we get over that and judge the game for what it is and not what it isn't, it's undeniable that FFXIII has a lot of quality too. The combat is really great, the animations and environments look amazing and some of the cut-scenes are breathtaking. The story itself is a bunch of anime nonsense, but it's well structured and consistent. It's not a bad game.

But you have to consider what makes these two games vastly different in terms of the "overworld". XIII's overworld is practically non-existent, while VII had one, as you said. That being said, both games had a different director, producer, programmers, writers, and so on, with little of any of them being shared between one another.

XIII was made more linear because of this. However, sometimes the same formula gets old. There aren't a ton of people who have played Assassin's Creed, for example, that have enjoyed every single game since they are essentially copy and pastes with different locations and eras. Final Fantasy is different, while at the same time all of them taking place in the same universe. They are related, either directly or indirectly, however the games' pacing is different with each release, as well as story progression and characters, and how development of these things continue. Yes, I like exploration, and no, I don't mine a game being too linear. XIII however, allowed some exploration, so in that sense, it's A-okay with me.

Now, combine all that I've mentioned together, and sure, you can compared XIII and other JRPGs, or other RPGs in general, saying that there is "no exploration", however that's not quite the case. You have to actually look around to find Cactuar and Gigantuar, a few areas are huge and it would take you roughly a couple hours (taking into account all the fighting that you sometimes can't escape) to explore the entire map, not all items are acquired through story progession or playing in a very linear way, and some areas are even confusing as to which direction you need to go, causing you to switch it around and actually explore to find the correct way. XIII in no way fully "eliminates" exploration, but rather it's not as important as it could be. But XIII-2 came in with an overworld not too distant from how VII's was, and there are sidequests (other than XIII's l'Cie stone quests) with bonuses, and much more to explore. But it came at a price. The maps aren't as vast and impressive, and as such, enemy spawns are also random and can appear at pretty much any time and there's nothing you can do about it.

[Hong Kong Phooey]

Guess a few folks don't agree OP [www.siliconera.com]

[GravityLoL]

Originally posted by Hong Kong Phooey:

Guess a few folks don't agree OP [www.siliconera.com]

you're too sloooooooooooooow

[Vlad]

Originally posted by Hong Kong Phooey:

Guess a few folks don't agree OP [www.siliconera.com]

The topic at hand is XIII, not Lightning Returns. That link is pretty much irrelevent and proves OP's point more than disproves, actually, since it has over five times as many sales as LR on opening sales. In addition to that, XIII's ending didn't fully require XIII-2 or LR at all, so some probably don't even know of the existence of XIII-2 or were satisfied enough with the ending to not play more. That being said, raw numbers also don't account for much. What matters most is that the majority of reviews for XIII overall are positive.

[Hong Kong Phooey]

Well it shows that FFXIII didn't create that many fans to keep them that interested in part 2 and Lightning Returns even less so.

[Vlad]

Originally posted by Hong Kong Phooey:

Well it shows that FFXIII didn't create that many fans to keep them that interested in part 2 and Lightning Returns even less so.

Again, there's no telling how many people played XIII that may not know XIII-2 even exists, or that they were satisfied enough with XIII's ending. It may not be a lack of interest, but just misinformation or ignorance.

[Mochasky]

Originally posted by Hong Kong Phooey:

Well it shows that FFXIII didn't create that many fans to keep them that interested in part 2 and Lightning Returns even less so.

Your point is moot. By the same logic, every single FF game with sequels/prequels are crap because they can't retain even half of their original's sales. It's common sense that sequels/prequels will always sell less than the original game in 99% of cases. So yeah, by your logic, X is crap; VII is also crap because the sales of Crisis Core and Dirge of Cerberus are pitiful compared to the original game.

If you're going to try to make a point, at least put some effort into it.