Is delusion worth it?

[Mat7itan]

I know it opens up different dialouge options, but for three points (and a skill spot) I feel like they would be better spent going into quen or aard (assuming you are going with a sign build). You don't need the dialogue options in order to get the same result, and all you really miss out on is 25 xp which is pretty easy to get by killing higher level monsters further into the game.

[Mehfisto]

It's nice to have for the lore and to make conversations/quests more interesting, but I found it isn't really needed and there's not actually that many dialogues that make it available, and no important ones anyway.
Dunno what it does besides that, i don't use axii much but sure doesn't look like something i'd waste a slot for

[Мойдодыр]

If you have this skill maxed each time you use it, it gives you 40 xp and it will be VERY helpful in some branches of TW3's dialoges. Some people will try to cheat you when you come to them after finishing a contrat-quest, some people will change their minds if they want Geralt's blood, some will try to hide important information from Geralt. All of that can be solved with an appearance of the hand if you have the delusion skill.
Besides it's great in combat - you can stun an enemy (of course if an enemy is vulnerable to delusion) for 4-5 secons, move towards your enemy's back and hit the most easiest crittical of your life. Some enemys that charge Geralt can be also stoped by this sign. It's very effective against annoying ghosts and wolves.
You will have 50-65 skill points by the end of the game (if you play properly) and having only THREE points invested into delusion is a such small price for a this useful sign.

[Zlazorant]

Hate that I only have 16 Skill slots maxed and I can't find a justifiaction for Delusion aside from quests for an entire skillpoint, Im tempted.

[grazr]

I like that it rewards extra XP in missions. Probably doesn't exactly pay for itself with just that, but then it's extremely useful in combat too. Seems to be pretty effective on all enemies except Spectres which you're forced to spam Yrden on. Despite most creatures not specifically being weak to it. Feels like a get out of jail free card really. If i'm having a problem with any enemy, Just Axii them and smash out a couple free crits off their butt cheeks, rinse and repeat.

Not too bad for a hybrid build. I've gone for 2x red, 1x green and 1x blue setup. Seemed the most natural to me despite going into it with the intention of going full red. You'll need to put some of those points in *something* else on the blue tree just to open up higher tiers if you want some powerful signs. Might as well have some of that in Axii.

If anything, you can always try a run through both with and without using it. Sandbox games like this seem to have pretty good replay value.

[Zlazorant]

Originally posted by grazr:

Sandbox games like this seem to have pretty good replay value.

#ROASTED

[Red Star, Blood Moon]

Originally posted by Мойдодыр:

If you have this skill maxed each time you use it, it gives you 40 xp and it will be VERY helpful in some branches of TW3's dialoges. Some people will try to cheat you when you come to them after finishing a contrat-quest, some people will change their minds if they want Geralt's blood, some will try to hide important information from Geralt. All of that can be solved with an appearance of the hand if you have the delusion skill.
Besides it's great in combat - you can stun an enemy (of course if an enemy is vulnerable to delusion) for 4-5 secons, move towards your enemy's back and hit the most easiest crittical of your life. Some enemys that charge Geralt can be also stoped by this sign. It's very effective against annoying ghosts and wolves.
You will have 50-65 skill points by the end of the game (if you play properly) and having only THREE points invested into delusion is a such small price for a this useful sign.

Sadly it requires so many damn points for a skill that I've canonically always ignored in the first two games so it doesn't make sense for me to be taking it now, but puppeteering seems pretty great, especially if it takes one off your back and then gets them fighting each other which effectively reduces the number of enemies you're righting by two. It's the similar logic as punji traps.

Originally posted by Zir Pyrocumulus:

Hate that I only have 16 Skill slots maxed and I can't find a justifiaction for Delusion aside from quests for an entire skillpoint, Im tempted.

I normally play a high speechcraft in a lot of games so it feels weird to be passing this up. Plus it's already proven itself useful twice and I've only just turned in the drunk who set a dwarf's forge on fireI came to regret doing that though, the little ♥♥♥♥♥♥

So mainly, it's not even all that useful throughout the game?? Or is it? Because I'd rather buff up igni and a lot of other skills but man it was already useful at low level

[EolSunder]

ive never used it. there aren't that many dialogue choices in the game for that purpose, and in combat just having the basic ability is good enough to temp stun stuff like shield users etc to let you get a break in their defense. Much more important signs to me, like most of them more important and useful.

[Babbles]

You ultimatly go green - blue is early game. Death March.

[Red Star, Blood Moon]

Originally posted by Babbles:

You ultimatly go green - blue is early game. Death March.

Yeah but I'm not bothering with wasting my time on DM considering how long the game is already as I'm exploring it not just trying to finish it, plus have the two DLCs on top of base so that alone is like what, 40-60 hours on just story main quest?

Besides, I discovered completely by accident that apparently if you switch out a skill in character screen for Axii and have a mutagen parallel to it that it doubles that mutagen's effect, going from a "meh" to an "ayyy this is useful" which would be nice to see things clarified in a real hundred page manual iirc the manual is pretty short and only covers the basics. I'd wager a lot of people don't realize you have to have these things equipped, either.

Originally posted by EolSunder:

ive never used it. there aren't that many dialogue choices in the game for that purpose, and in combat just having the basic ability is good enough to temp stun stuff like shield users etc to let you get a break in their defense. Much more important signs to me, like most of them more important and useful.

I dunno man with a full 7% sign intensity mutagen being doubled in my first mutagen slot to +14% sign intensity and not even having enough gear yet to make use of my extra 60lb of inventory (I've got like 39/60 right now) makes it worthwhile. I've already used this once and while I maybe wouldn't have wasted a rare skill point on it in Witcher 2, I did end up using Axii a whole bunch of times in that game too.

The main thing I don't see being discussed though on the "is it worth it" discussions from years ago about completing quests and gaining XP is how much XP do you lose really? For example by not having that fight or doing those extra things aren't you just losing out on gaining more XP by having it equipped?

I still think I'm going to end up leaving it in though. Even though I not once upgraded Axii in either of the other games iirc I guess I can still roleplay it as the gentler, older, more sardonic and wizened by his years Geralt who says "there's nothing behind me I'd of heard it. Your heart's beating fast too, like a liar's." So while I'd normally rather upgrade into Ignii firstand will eventually since I was always group/fast attack and Ignii based with lots of alchemy skills I'd just rather have the ability to dodge a tedious fight, gain XP, and roleplay the Witcher gaining a mellower, less shooty attitude toward people and discerning between the lines using force persuasion, than to just straight up burn everything.

I'm still unclear on if it's worth it to upgrade beyond that though, although puppet seems like it's the one thing that's really great in the Axii tree that sadly takes too many points to bother with. I also think it's a shame as much as "nice" that it plays so differently across games because it really makes different Signs more useful than others in certain games, like Ignii was hands down the best one in TW1 but really nothing much in TW2 where I found Yrden pretty effective or Quen, and here it seems to me like high Axii and Quen are the most useful; am I reading that right?

Originally posted by Mehfisto:

It's nice to have for the lore and to make conversations/quests more interesting, but I found it isn't really needed and there's not actually that many dialogues that make it available, and no important ones anyway.
Dunno what it does besides that, i don't use axii much but sure doesn't look like something i'd waste a slot for

So which ones really are the most useful in this game? Did Ignii just continue getting nerfed in TW3? Does Aard become super effective again? Because Axii did literally nothing for dialogue in TW2far as I can tell it just worked like a passive thing based on upgrading by using it to level 3 and worked irrespective of having any skillpoint in it or not and was borderline useless anyway, is it good here now? Is Yrden that good for anything but ghosts? Or is it just Quen that's really useful here?

[tigerpoetry]

Axii in general is one skill I haven't utilised as much as I should.

I like Delusion, not to gain XP or any advantage, but just to skip more quickly to the bits I like... lame, yes. I'm wracking my brain trying to think where it's key, but no. It's not, in my opinion.

For myself, I still like it, but I think it depends more on your chosen style. I like peaceful solutions, so I like axii delusion.

As a step to getting more useful sign skills, it's not a bad one to pick, though.

[Red Star, Blood Moon]

Originally posted by tigerpoetry:

Axii in general is one skill I haven't utilised as much as I should.

I like Delusion, not to gain XP or any advantage, but just to skip more quickly to the bits I like... lame, yes. I'm wracking my brain trying to think where it's key, but no. It's not, in my opinion.

For myself, I still like it, but I think it depends more on your chosen style. I like peaceful solutions, so I like axii delusion.

As a step to getting more useful sign skills, it's not a bad one to pick, though.

Oh yeah that's right, also does the skill point transfer across the entire field? Like if I choose 3 Axii, that puts me 3/8 towards getting a good second tier Ignii skill? Also I agree with you, I play games like these mainly for the story and atmospheric experience not grinding on trashmobs and bosses, so if it ends up just being a shortcut through some scripted battle is a perk.

[Dethlane]

Hella worth it. It's nice addition to dialogues and you don't need those extra 3 skill points to easily kill enemies, even on death march.

[tigerpoetry]

Dethlane raises a good point about high tier enemies. Especially if you are playing a sign build, axii duration keeps piling up the more you invest in signs. In my current game I'm only level 13 but already i can 'freeze' an enemy for 12 seconds. With 'Griffin technique' skill and all medium armour my stamina regenerates in 6 seconds. That means against 3 enemies I can quickly have 2 of them immobile whilst I whack the third. Once he's down I stick axii on one of the others and work on the next target. three dead Dodos in seconds.

Yes, every point you invest in the first tier of spells goes towards unlocking the next tier of spells.

To be honest, I find the second tier of spells underwhelming, in general. CDPR nerfed firestream and Yrden. I do find uses still for alternative Yrden, especially against gangs of humans where you can cast it and stand in line with your trap and an archer so his bolts/arrows don't touch you... very useful at higher levels.

Yrden in general is much more useful than you may think, especially for the 'Hearts Of Stone' expansion and 'Blood And Wine'

What I'm referring to here are the 'Arachnomorphs'. It doesn't tell you this in your Bestiary, but Yrden freezes all lesser arachnomorphs (the big ones seem immune). They don't just slow down, they freeze for the duration of your Yrden trap, letting you wallop them without risk. Cast yrden, lure them into it and it's all hack and slash/igni from there on.

[Red Star, Blood Moon]

Originally posted by tigerpoetry:

Dethlane raises a good point about high tier enemies. Especially if you are playing a sign build, axii duration keeps piling up the more you invest in signs. In my current game I'm only level 13 but already i can 'freeze' an enemy for 12 seconds. With 'Griffin technique' skill and all medium armour my stamina regenerates in 6 seconds. That means against 3 enemies I can quickly have 2 of them immobile whilst I whack the third. Once he's down I stick axii on one of the others and work on the next target. three dead Dodos in seconds.

Yes, every point you invest in the first tier of spells goes towards unlocking the next tier of spells.

To be honest, I find the second tier of spells underwhelming, in general. CDPR nerfed firestream and Yrden. I do find uses still for alternative Yrden, especially against gangs of humans where you can cast it and stand in line with your trap and an archer so his bolts/arrows don't touch you... very useful at higher levels.

Yrden in general is much more useful than you may think, especially for the 'Hearts Of Stone' expansion and 'Blood And Wine'

What I'm referring to here are the 'Arachnomorphs'. It doesn't tell you this in your Bestiary, but Yrden freezes all lesser arachnomorphs (the big ones seem immune). They don't just slow down, they freeze for the duration of your Yrden trap, letting you wallop them without risk. Cast yrden, lure them into it and it's all hack and slash/igni from there on.

Ah see this is the kind of thing I was looking for answers, because CDPR tended to treat things like signs very differently across the three titles. Thanks.

Also how much min/maxing and strategic builds am I even supposed to use? Do I get to eventually re-build my character like TW2 did with that Vran guardian? And how much skillpoints do I actually get? Do all those sources of power give a skillpoint the first time you use one? Because if so, neat.

I basically just don't want to end up losing tons of points on stupid ♥♥♥♥ in a bad build for a 100+ hour game and be stuck with it, plus all the skills are seemingly treated vaguely more like TW1 did with a real character building rpg, but it seems like it's still been nerfed a bit. Like Ignii was very OP in TW1, not as much so in TW2, and skills and signs are treated very differently in each game. I can't tell yet if all those skills across 4 branches+brown single slots are going to quickly soak up all my XP or not, because each one is like 3 or 5 skillpoints just to unlock and max out fully.

I also do not understand if archery matters at all here, because the trailer made it seem like it did, as do skills, but was literally irrelevant to TW2 where there's no point to investing skills in deflect arrows etc. So it seems there is possibility to do crossbow build, but idk how powerful it is, on you or the enemies. Yrden in this post seems to indicate that it is an actual problem now though, which it wasn't in the former two games.

[Propellar5225]

I would say that the game isn't hard enough to warrant slots only being used for combat abilities. Delusion provides a lot of flavor in conversations. You also save gold.