Detlaff - Why you should be on his side. Blood N Wine SPOILERS

[Yakuza enjoyer]

What makes a human life more valuable than a sentient monster?

Detlaff has good intentions, he believes a loved one is in mortal danger and so is prepared to do anything the blackmailer wants.

Upon discovering this Geralt rationally suggests to the Duchess that they should find the blackmailer ,thus ending the whole horrid affair.

Everyone seems to agree it is a good idea up until the point that we discover Syanna is the blackmailer.

That changes everything. Syanna receives preferential treatment from her sister, who demands Detlaff's head. After all the peasants need a scapegoat she has to punish someone.

The fact he was used as a tool to murder her own noblemen by said sister doesn't seem to shake her convictions at all.

So he gives an ultimatum, in three days he wants to talk to Syanna or he will destroy Beauclair.

This warning isn't heeded and he keeps to his word. Makes you wonder, if they delivered Syanna on time before the blood letting began..would it have ended so violently for her?

He withdraws afterwards as he promised, afterall the culprit was punished.

So it leaves me a little confused why the vast majority of gamers have a problem with this and refer to it as the "bad ending".

Probably will add more later but KIng of the Clink is the best ending( 1% of players have this achievement).

[Shalashaska]

I agree that this is the best ending, Syanna deserves death.

[Living Broscillograph]

The roots of the problem are in the current economic formation of Beauclair.
The most rich homes socially seclude themselves from "outer" people and think of themselves as elites who may do anything (this is why the queen is so easily convinced by Geralt to forgive her sister). Detlaff is not a part of their club and is considered a lowborn who shall obey the will of the higher ranks. He was used as a tool in high-ranks' business after all and didn't object, so that makes him even more lowborn and puny in their eyes. They won't even discuss an option to give one of theirs to a poor like him, they'd prefer a more habitual way: capture a poor (Detlaff), sentence him and forget about him as they live their twisted amoral lives with loud words about virtues.

On the other hand, Detlaff starts a massacre, the conflict of a lover and a blackmailer turns into humans vs deadly dangerous superior beings. Love and betrayal drive him mad towards humans. At the moment he is no longer a person that will meet a human peacefully.

This is a situation that went so far so it can't have a good solution. Most of the characters became monsters and it's up to Player to decide which of them he sympathizes more.

[Yakuza enjoyer]

Originally posted by Living Broscillograph:

The roots of the problem are in the current economic formation of Beauclair.
The most rich homes socially seclude themselves from "outer" people and think of themselves as elites who may do anything (this is why the queen is so easily convinced by Geralt to forgive her sister). Detlaff is not a part of their club and is considered a lowborn who shall obey the will of the higher ranks. He was used as a tool in high-ranks' business after all and didn't object, so that makes him even more lowborn and puny in their eyes. They won't even discuss an option to give one of theirs to a poor like him, they'd prefer a more habitual way: capture a poor (Detlaff), sentence him and forget about him as they live their twisted amoral lives with loud words about virtues.

On the other hand, Detlaff starts a massacre, the conflict of a lover and a blackmailer turns into humans vs deadly dangerous superior beings. Love and betrayal drive him mad towards humans. At the moment he is no longer a person that will meet a human peacefully.

This is a situation that went so far so it can't have a good solution. Most of the characters became monsters and it's up to Player to decide which of them he sympathizes more.

An interesting point. Yes just like in the contract with the shaelmaar under the vineyard. The owner was a pompous idiot full of his own self importance. Took great glee in withholding my knowledge of his wife's infidelity. After all the farmhand wasn't really a man in his eyes anyway.

About the massacre, Detlaff gave his terms. As you rightly pointed out, their elitism lead to that slaughter. Believing themselves untouchable, Detlaff in their eyes was just another beast to be put down.

I don't agree with Detlaff being mad against all humans. Once Syanna dies he reverts back to a very calm and rational state of mind.

The slaughter in Beauclair was him merely keeping his word. What else could he have done? He waited three days and they did nothing.

That was merely to force their hand, for him all those lifes lost were the means to an end. Ofc thats not defendable but then on the other hand his opponent wasn't gving any concessions either.

A show of might was warranted, to the misery of the small folk in Beauclair unfortunately. This also mirrors real world events.

[Living Broscillograph]

Originally posted by Mumm-Ra:

I don't agree with Detlaff being mad against all humans. Once Syanna dies he reverts back to a very calm and rational state of mind.

The slaughter in Beauclair was him merely keeping his word. What else could he have done? He waited three days and they did nothing.

That was merely to force their hand, for him all those lifes lost were the means to an end. Ofc thats not defendable but then on the other hand his opponent wasn't gving any concessions either.

A show of might was warranted, to the misery of the small folk in Beauclair unfortunately. This also mirrors real world events.

Probably "mad" is not the right word to describe the way Detlaff thought, though i don't see a more proper one. Thing is that vampires look at humans as at fodder (well, sort of wine actually) and consider them as animals to be cared and cooked at best. Detlaff doesn't see the wrongness of his actions because of that: this natural humans' nest dies, many grow anew. He is calm and rational for a vampire, completely mad for a human which he is surely not.

From the moment the slaughter starts the only human that can safely approach Detlaff is Syanna (and he will kill her if possible, so it's a very relative safeness). I doubt he would fall in love with a human ever after that or be at least as open to humans as before (if he could even be called "open").
We can only see this cultural difference between humans and vampires and its influence on their behaviour because Geralt is not considered a human by civil society and by vampires too (this allows either of them accept him as a sort-of-equal if they like him for some reason).

[Yakuza enjoyer]

Originally posted by BuzzardBee:

I always opt to see all possible endings for myself but I agree with the OP. The one that felt "right" to me was sparing Detlaff. He was used and tricked and I do not condone that. It's why I feel so strongly against Yen and Triss as Geralt. I fully sympathized with Detlaff.

Yes, he began an uprising and a massacre but he was furious, just as I would have been. Syanna was a spoiled brat and yes she was bad treated because of it and because of her state but it didn't give her the right to do the things she had done. She deserved to die. Detlaff did not.

I also played through all three endings and was actually revolted by the " good ending".

Syanna is forgiven with a very light punishment, everyone is happy about the result and Geralt is hailed as a hero.

Only problem being, Regis his true friend and comrade goes into exile after killing his kin who resurrected him. He betrayed his race for Geralt who puts all his trust in one selfish human being.

Not forgetting the dupe of the whole affair Detlaff, who's biggest mistake we are told by Syanna, was loving her too much.

[Hatchback]

Dettlaff was a sick dog that butchered a lot of people, he had to be put down. I actually felt bad for him until he went crazy.

[Yakuza enjoyer]

Originally posted by Living Broscillograph:

Originally posted by Mumm-Ra:

I don't agree with Detlaff being mad against all humans. Once Syanna dies he reverts back to a very calm and rational state of mind.

The slaughter in Beauclair was him merely keeping his word. What else could he have done? He waited three days and they did nothing.

That was merely to force their hand, for him all those lifes lost were the means to an end. Ofc thats not defendable but then on the other hand his opponent wasn't gving any concessions either.

A show of might was warranted, to the misery of the small folk in Beauclair unfortunately. This also mirrors real world events.

Probably "mad" is not the right word to describe the way Detlaff thought, though i don't see a more proper one. Thing is that vampires look at humans as at fodder (well, sort of wine actually) and consider them as animals to be cared and cooked at best. Detlaff doesn't see the wrongness of his actions because of that: this natural humans' nest dies, many grow anew. He is calm and rational for a vampire, completely mad for a human which he is surely not.

From the moment the slaughter starts the only human that can safely approach Detlaff is Syanna (and he will kill her if possible, so it's a very relative safeness). I doubt he would fall in love with a human ever after that or be at least as open to humans as before (if he could even be called "open").
We can only see this cultural difference between humans and vampires and its influence on their behaviour because Geralt is not considered a human by civil society and by vampires too (this allows either of them accept him as a sort-of-equal if they like him for some reason).

Aggrieved? Distraught? Heartbroken?. We learn during the story that higher vampires feel emotions akin to humans but on a hundredfold scale.

I agree that some of the higher vamps seems to think that way. However Regis does not and Detlaff shows no signs of this either. He shreds and rips his enemies, not once does he drink from them.

He also shows surprising compassion for the Bootblack, who actually feels some kind of loyalty to him.

The you have his remorse after killing De la Croix, cutting his own hand off. Not exactly what you would expect if he viewed humans merely as fodder.

Its just rage, uncontrollable rage directed at Syanna. Betrayal is truly one of the worst things you can do to a loved one.

[ThreeGunz]

because he got betrayed he tear down a whole city and killed maybe hundreds of innocent civilians? nope, the "girls" where wrong but detlaf had to die, and the fight was a great one.

[Ozone]

I see where he's coming from, but he steps way over the line in the end
Still, I think that letting him kill Syanna is better. Maybe we shouldn't judge a different being by human standards, his emotions are way too strong and instable to think rationally in certain situations. And Syanna knew this all along, so I do believe she is responsible for all the horrors people of Beauclair suffered. She does not deserve to be "forgiven" by that clueless, pompous sister of hers.

[Abdelhazred]

Originally posted by Ozone:

I see where he's coming from, but he steps way over the line in the end
Still, I think that letting him kill Syanna is better. Maybe we shouldn't judge a different being by human standards, his emotions are way too strong and instable to think rationally in certain situations. And Syanna knew this all along, so I do believe she is responsible for all the horrors people of Beauclair suffered. She does not deserve to be "forgiven" by that clueless, pompous sister of hers.

Both those girls are unbelievable. I think blondie tried to be a fair ruler; but some of the ♥♥♥♥ she said made me shudder.

I also think it's funny as hell that she'd dare threaten me WHILE citizens occasionally call me kingslayer and there's wanted posters up for me committing regicide. I can kill you just as quick as your emotionally damaged sister, get away too.

[Yakuza enjoyer]

Originally posted by Herr Rossi:

because he got betrayed he tear down a whole city and killed maybe hundreds of innocent civilians? nope, the "girls" where wrong but detlaf had to die, and the fight was a great one.

Syanna is to blame for that. Detlaff wouldn't even be in Beuaclair if she hadn't lured him there.
All of the misery and death that follows is her fault.

Her sister, Ana is blind to her evil. Even when she is presented with proof of Syanna's intention to kill her she still makes excuses.

[swiftdeath60]

Originally posted by Herr Rossi:

because he got betrayed he tear down a whole city and killed maybe hundreds of innocent civilians? nope, the "girls" where wrong but detlaf had to die, and the fight was a great one.

Sounds like a repeat of the "Great Crusades". One betryal leads to thousands of lives lost.
Again showing how game mirrors humans in real life.

[Yakuza enjoyer]

Originally posted by Ozone:

I see where he's coming from, but he steps way over the line in the end
Still, I think that letting him kill Syanna is better. Maybe we shouldn't judge a different being by human standards, his emotions are way too strong and instable to think rationally in certain situations. And Syanna knew this all along, so I do believe she is responsible for all the horrors people of Beauclair suffered. She does not deserve to be "forgiven" by that clueless, pompous sister of hers.

Yes that about sums it up nicely. He did go too far but he was pushed to those extremes by circumstance.

The ending where Syanna is forgiven by her sister and its hugs all around sickens me.

[Abdelhazred]

Originally posted by Mumm-Ra:

Originally posted by Ozone:

I see where he's coming from, but he steps way over the line in the end
Still, I think that letting him kill Syanna is better. Maybe we shouldn't judge a different being by human standards, his emotions are way too strong and instable to think rationally in certain situations. And Syanna knew this all along, so I do believe she is responsible for all the horrors people of Beauclair suffered. She does not deserve to be "forgiven" by that clueless, pompous sister of hers.

Yes that about sums it up nicely. He did go too far but he was pushed to those extremes by circumstance.

The ending where Syanna is forgiven by her sister and its hugs all around sickens me.

Wait. There's an ending where Bitchrietta doesn't get prison-shanked? Because I don't count that as a hug.

[Wilglide]

Originally posted by Abdelhazred:

Wait. There's an ending where Bitchrietta doesn't get prison-shanked? Because I don't count that as a hug.

Yes there is :) , at least I don't remember her getting prison-shanked after the forgiving part.

My opinion is that the higher vampires are intellectually many fold superior to humans, even though some of them like Detlaff have very strong tribal instincts too. Surely they are morally superior too.

And Regis is a true friend to Geralt.
Killing Detlaff implicitly betrays Regis..
And if Detlaff wasn't tricked / betrayed into his actions by Syanna, Syanna would still be alive.

I agree with what Ozone said.