Rebel Galaxy

Rebel Galaxy

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Tongues Jul 5, 2021 @ 10:22pm
Scaling is the number one thing that makes this game from great to awful.
It starts out simple enough in the first system - get upgrades, beat the heck out of things, move on. Once I felt solid enough in the first system I did the story, with more or less all the best upgrades there. As soon as I hit the second system the scaling becomes hilariously bad. Enemies you used to outpace without even blinking are now traveling alongside you in ships twice your size, their damage is heavily upscaled, enemy spawns go from corvettes to destroyers, even trade ships have more health than most other 1st system vessels.

Everything about the game was done right - up until the point they decided they were going to make everything arbitrarily scale every system necessitating a pointless grind that negates skill, actual "roleplaying", immersion and promotes metagaming instead of variability.

There's no change in gameplay past this. It's just scaling. Who the hell thought this was a great idea, making ♥♥♥♥ scale is the number one way to destroy an interesting game. I'm actively looking into modding out the scaling and setting up a more static setting myself as it seems like no one's actually done it yet. Seriously, all the beautiful work and assets and gamefeel and they decide to ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ throw in scaling where enemies are 30-50% stronger per system? ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ incredible game design. If anyone has any idea how scaling works in the .lua files, post it so it can get fixed.
Last edited by Tongues; Jul 5, 2021 @ 11:07pm
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Showing 1-15 of 42 comments
It's not that challenging. Don't hate on the devs because you get frustrated easily.
Cookie Jul 7, 2021 @ 1:59am 
So you wanted there to be no challenge anymore after the first hour or two?
Kamiyama Jul 7, 2021 @ 3:13pm 
I love games that use level scaling. Every single game I''ve played that uses level scaling has a way to exploit it. FF8. Elder Scrolls Oblivion. This. You just have to figure out how to approach it.

Don't bother leveling up 1 mark at a time. Ignore the main questline.

Start the game and grind missions until you can afford the jump drive. Then jump to the highest level system you can. It's probably the one closest to Charon, the inaccessible system.

Using the superior agility of your noobship, warp around and look for minefields. Stop in each minefield and press F to scan. Look for the purple diamonds with exclamation points ! in them. These will either be cargo containers or ordinance containers. Loot all the cargo you can find.

When you find Mark 6 gear you can use, equip it. Then keep warping around the system and trawling minefields. This is boring, but lets you advance faster than missions. If you get jumped by bad guys, just boost away and escape into warp. They will probably all be in big slow ships and won't be able to catch you.

After you get enough loot and credits to upgrade your shields, engines, and booster you're ready for the next step.

Go to the Merchant's Guild and look for the absolute worst level 6 dead drop missions you can find. Accept those. You don't have to fight anything. You just have to boost to the cargo, pick it up, and boost away. You can farm these to make good credits.

Use the dead drop missions to fund your gear advancement to all level 6.

Now you're ready to tackle level 6 combat missions at the Mercenaries Guild.

I like the Sturville. IMO best ship in the game.

Now you can go back to the noob system and waltz through the story line if you want.
Tongues Jul 8, 2021 @ 12:39am 
Clearly everyone one here knows ♥♥♥♥ all game design.

Abusing metagaming for scaling is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ piss easy, anyone can ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ do it. That doesn't make a for a good game. There is no challenge in sitting 8 miles away or cramming your ship's face into the ass end of a dreadnought with the ram deflector because it evades their withering number creep.

The move to push scaling so intensely was purely a metric to arbitrarily increase playtime. It's not good design to ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ number meta, because it defeats the point of crafting a world or a sensible one. Scaling is supposed to be a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ abstraction in video games, not a mechanic in of itself. That's why there are hundreds of modders and other games that do such design better. This ♥♥♥♥ isn't a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ MMO.

I love the game, I hate the scaling. Don't justify bad mechanics just beacuse you like something. Scaling is bad and the game could significantly better if progression were more sensibly done. End of story.
Last edited by Tongues; Jul 8, 2021 @ 12:40am
Cookie Jul 9, 2021 @ 8:49am 
There are so many ♥ in your message that it's almost unreadable. Calm down. Go drink some tea. Enjoy the sunshine. Then come back.
Tongues Jul 11, 2021 @ 9:04pm 
Nah, it's because there are two kinds of people. One: those who trash games without giving them the chance. Two: the people who would defend a game's bad design because they can work around it and therefore do not consider it a problem. Any idiot can do the above, and it results in ♥♥♥♥♥♥ game design I've spent years arguing against only to see many games go to ♥♥♥♥ because of idiots. This game has plenty of merit, but the scaling is literally the worst ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ thing. I can max out a frigate in the second system and get instantly wiped in a trade mission because they spawn a dozen enemies around you - you can neither do the DPS nor have the survivability to bust through it, nor the speed.

So when you swap to a smaller ship the scaling suddenly draws back to MK3 territory instead of MK4, and now you're able to survive without so much as a fart in the wind.

Game design would then suggest: alright, why not buff that frigate's armor multiplier in the .lua? Well as soon as you do that, and you're suddenly invincible for all the other content, removing the challenge until you get the sudden jumps in enemy scaling that literally plow through all your shields and armor and deflectors instantly - or in this case, are now "balanced" for what the game would consider underleveled armor.

Alright, how about balancing the maximum difficulty level in each system?

Unfortunately, each purchasable item is tied to the max difficulty of the system which means that you literally cannot buy those items without being put in danger of spiking the scaling up to unreasonable levels.

This is an example of scaling in the game that is extremely poorly thought out, damages the enjoyment of the game and leaves it to number ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ than actual game design. The scaling of equipment doubling every MK increase destroys any semblance of actual fairness in favor of just braindead slapping easier missions for money, which means that any and all challenge becomes arbitrary and a waste of time.

Lastly, metagaming scaling is not gameplay. It's at best an abstraction of difficulty and challenge, at worst it's literally a waste of your ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ time. An RPG is not about making the correct decisions, but rather making the decisions have consequences as opposed to being flat out wins or losses.

But I take it very few people actually ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ understand that, or know anything about game design, or are even capable of trying to wrap their heads around how it works to make a decent game. I've spent the past few days in my spare time working through nearly every major .lua file trying to figure out how to make it tick. There is no simple fix however, as I am almost 100% certain the scaling in the game is merely because building the core game was challenging enough for a small developer and that creating a simple scaling system was necessitated to shove the game out the door faster, rather than creating a nuanced and refined system. As such the problems are so inherently baked into the system that it would take an entire rework of the entire game's itemization numbers and internal scaling mechanics to balance it out.

The frustration and obvious anger is because 1: there's potential here. 2: people don't realize it. 3: people are willing to defend bad game design just because they like it. 4: I like this game enough to give a ♥♥♥♥ about making it better and it's a damn atrocity how bad the scaling is for how rock solid the actual gameplay is otherwise.

You know the worst part? They did the exact type of scaling BS with Rebel Galaxy Outlaw. I guarantee that will be what kills its long term success, especially if there are no mods to fix that. Defending this ♥♥♥♥ is what causes the game to fail to innovate and hurts long term success, doesn't ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ matter if you don't like that someone actually gives enough of a ♥♥♥♥ to say it as it is: scaling is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ BS, and literally the one thing keeping this game from being one of the best arcadey style action space RPG.
Cookie Jul 11, 2021 @ 11:08pm 
I see you didn't calm down in the slightest.
Guess what? I don't like the scaling either but I'm not going to rant about it. Why? Because it's just a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ video game. It's not worth the stress.
WillieSea Jul 12, 2021 @ 11:37am 
The game has so FEW story missions, that star system difficulty scaling is the only thing that makes the game get drawn out. Because you have to GRIND in each system for a long time in order to afford better equipment before you go to the next star system. Then GRIND more. And those side missions get very repetitive.
Bolt-action Jack Jul 15, 2021 @ 12:19am 
Scaling killed it for me as well. When I found out that advancing forward in equipment just meant that I would meet enemies that would counter that equipment, it meant that the game became a massive grind that would be the same the entire way through. Once I realized that, the game went from one of my favorites to something I just can not play anymore.
Keith Jul 26, 2021 @ 4:18pm 
While i dont agree with the Op entirely, The game is RIDDLED with issues that make it annoying.
Plüschtiger Jul 31, 2021 @ 1:06pm 
The way I see it, the level of difficulty in the game is fixed. Each system has its own level of difficulty. What we do is to get closer to the level of the next system with upgrades. For the above reason, the stated difficulty will probably also decrease with improving equipment and a better ship. And now? The design difficulty level is not as different as in many other games, see Freelancer.

If you accept an order in one system that is in another, the degree of difficulty should be based on the client's system.

Of course you have to take a lot of jobs to buy equipment, but you can't expect to be given a Blackgate for 0 either. The prices are not much different from X3. (translated)
Originally posted by Keith:
While i dont agree with the Op entirely, The game is RIDDLED with issues that make it annoying.
The game was made by a two person team. I think given it was such a small dev team they did a pretty good job. Rebel Galaxy: Outlaw is better but then they had more people & money.
Plüschtiger Aug 3, 2021 @ 2:05pm 
Originally posted by Zidders 'Rockin' Bard' Roofurry:
Originally posted by Keith:
While i dont agree with the Op entirely, The game is RIDDLED with issues that make it annoying.
The game was made by a two person team. I think given it was such a small dev team they did a pretty good job. Rebel Galaxy: Outlaw is better but then they had more people & money.
Star Valor is made from 1 and every bug is corrected, so not a weighty argument. Even if there are only 2 people, if nothing new comes up, at least the existing bugs can be fixed and there are probably a few. (translated)
Keith Aug 3, 2021 @ 3:00pm 
Originally posted by Zidders 'Rockin' Bard' Roofurry:
Originally posted by Keith:
While i dont agree with the Op entirely, The game is RIDDLED with issues that make it annoying.
The game was made by a two person team. I think given it was such a small dev team they did a pretty good job. Rebel Galaxy: Outlaw is better but then they had more people & money.

No idea, I've never played Outlaw and nor do I ever intend to honestly.
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