Why I can't be an outlaw fan

[Ankido]

The day I played Rebel Galaxy I fell in love with the game. No matter how hard Star Citizen and Elite Dangerous and even No Man Sky for that matter try to give realistic graphics for space simulation; nothing will compare to Rebel Galaxy. I fell in love with that game and how the naval combat system was. I get it, Outlaw is cockpit fighter. If you're not going in the direction of Elite Dangerous or SC then what is the point of cockpit fighting? The naval base gave more in depth feeling of combat. Just being able to see your ship and the colorful graphics you offer made the game enjoyable to play.

What direction are you headed with this? I saw the video of the one hour play. You were afraid to compete with ED, SC and NMS. Then after the release you realized you can compete with them. I still think you can't. Because SC and ED are space simulation. RG:O is not space simulation. It's more like space adventure RPG. I'm confused here. I was hoping that your next installment would be in the line of SC and ED but not going all out like they did. Kinda stick to the adventure RPG style but giving the elements of a open universe space simulation.

IDK, I'm kinda bummed out with this new announcement of Outlaw. I was expecting better than Rebel Galaxy.

[Zidders 'Rockin' Bard' Roofurry]

The only reason they went with the broadside combat is because at the time they thought the cockpit-view genre was about to be flooded. They had no idea that a few years later it wasn't. This time around they decided there was plenty of space for that style of game. Plus they wanted to do something new and have a bit more fun with it. Turn what they and most others had enjoyed about their game-the less serious/more fun atmosphere-and turn it up to 11. You can still do cockpit fighting without it being a hard core space sim style game. This is more like Wing Commander: Privateer meets Heavy MEtal with a touch of Cowboy Bebop than any of those games you mentioned.

I mean I understand where you're coming from but even in the first game there were not so subtle hints of this games not so serious sense of humor. I guess I'm just having trouble why you would expect them to go in the direction of those kind of games when clearly they've always leaned more towards Borderlands than Half-Life in regard to tone.

[ReaperLord]

Originally posted by Zidders:

The only reason they went with the broadside combat is because at the time they thought the cockpit-view genre was about to be flooded. They had no idea that a few years later it wasn't.

It's gonna get flooded next year with new games, though. Rebel Galaxy Outlaw, Redout:Space Assault, Arc Savior, Solar Warden, and possibly more. On the other hand, capital ship action space games will be rather light. Solar Warden might have capital ships and there's also Between the Stars.

[Irot Noot]

I cant be an Outlaw fan because DD sold out to Epic. I bought and enjoyed their other game, I will not be buying this one on principle even after its exclusivity period. There are enough other games to choose from to not have to support one that chooses to diss its long time existing Steam fan base for a few more pennies...

[Irot Noot]

Originally posted by Eisberg:

Originally posted by Irot Noot:

I cant be an Outlaw fan because DD sold out to Epic. I bought and enjoyed their other game, I will not be buying this one on principle even after its exclusivity period. There are enough other games to choose from to not have to support one that chooses to diss its long time existing Steam fan base for a few more pennies...

man you people are sure making it I big deal that you need to press a button on different place than Steam. Like you guys feel it is this huge burden to press a button on a different place than Steam. You guys are crying over nothing, literally crying over where you press your mouse button. Can't you see how silly that is?

Hey, you can spread your gaming portfolio over half a dozen platforms all you want. I have no desire to bend to yet another launcher from yet another company.

[Irot Noot]

Originally posted by Eisberg:

Originally posted by Irot Noot:

Hey, you can spread your gaming portfolio over half a dozen platforms all you want. I have no desire to bend to yet another launcher from yet another company.

So it is all about being incapable of pressing a button on something else, and then pretending that this is some kind of huge deal, when in reality it isn't at all. Seriously, you people need to get a better grasp on what actually matters and not have this outrage over an empty glass of milk spilling.

What actually matters is I dont trust Epic and have no reason to. Steam has earned my trust over many years and holds nearly every other game I own. I dont want to trust yet another company with my credit card info. Its not just one button, its entering all of the billing info again, for another company that wants to do the same thing as Steam, but magically thinks they can charge game devs less and offer the customers more. Not likely.

[Irot Noot]

Originally posted by Eisberg:

Originally posted by Irot Noot:

What actually matters is I dont trust Epic and have no reason to. Steam has earned my trust over many years and holds nearly every other game I own. I dont want to trust yet another company with my credit card info. Its not just one button, its entering all of the billing info again, for another company that wants to do the same thing as Steam, but magically thinks they can charge game devs less and offer the customers more. Not likely.

So now you change from "feeling dissed so will never buy out of principle" to " I don't trust Epic"? Did you realize how silly you were being and that is why you changed to "I don't trust Epic". Cause your first reasoning was horrible and not respectable at all since all It is just the difference of where you click a button. But not having trust is different and can be a respectable reason.

Hey white knight, you do you, Ill do me. They know what we are talking about and frankly I dont care one inch what you think.

[Ankido]

I'm not going to be a fan but I can assure you it will be a good game. I like Rebel Galaxy Naval Combat. Epic, Steam I don't care. As long as they produce good games like Rebel Galaxy I'm all in. I trust this company and I trust what they are doing. Rebel Galaxy should tell you what type of games they produce.

In the end, I'm in just not gonna be too hyped for the cockpit stuff. I'm a see your ship type of guy. (3rd person)

[ReaperLord]

Originally posted by Ankido:

I'm not going to be a fan but I can assure you it will be a good game. I like Rebel Galaxy Naval Combat. Epic, Steam I don't care. As long as they produce good games like Rebel Galaxy I'm all in. I trust this company and I trust what they are doing. Rebel Galaxy should tell you what type of games they produce.

In the end, I'm in just not gonna be too hyped for the cockpit stuff. I'm a see your ship type of guy. (3rd person)

They do have an option for a third person camera in-game for Outlaw. I think it can even be enabled with just a keystroke.

[Valerius]

First of all:
I loved Rebel Galaxy for the exceptional game it has been then and really hoped that it would stay true to itself in future sequels.

Apparently it doesn't. The argument, brought forth about 'being afraid because of the big companie's competition in dog fight sims' is nonsens. We've actively got a lot more FPS dogfight sims right now active and its sequels about to come than during the space sims global dry-time period.

I'm aware that for any type of game genre there are types of humans that are instantly transformed into fanboys or haters. And while this game did transform from one edge to another you might find former fans as haters and vice versa. So this is a review of someone keeping these factions in mind while trying to express my first-impression thing unblinded by the ads or the shiny-charisma-presentation of the 1h-gameplay vid. Because nowadays you have to strip the sugarcoat off the titles as they are since years definitely not What-you-see-is-what-you-get for 98% of releases. As trailered above, I was a fan of the - in my opinion undeserved - underdog, called Rebel Galaxy and its broadside combat style while having bigger and bigger space gigants to upgrade to.

My personal ups and downs about the first impression and apparently sattled things...

Ups:

• Radio stations and their broad variety (Didn't like later GTA series that much, but I liked some of their own radio mashups. So... a positive one)
  
• Side activities (How good their controls might be, like with 8-Ball needs to be proven, yet a good idea since The Witcher's dice poker.)
  
• Expectedly fluent performance. (In exchange for better graphics)
  
• Mining (aka at least one different thing to do out there except obsolete Crazy Chicken's shooting sim that most space sims also suffer from)
  
• Guilds to join (Sounds interesting at least...)
  
• Camera angles remind of Wing Commander series cutscenes (well done, responsible guy/gal)
  
• Well.. it's an indie dev.. so.. sigh... well... support-point here I guess? For big companies' descent at least.. in this case @vote-the-lesser-evil

Downs:

• X3-"Grand Theft Spaceship" atmosphere with mobster Claude(a) as protagonist
  
• Hanna Solo Gender/Char lock (why again the forced opposite stereotypes? Obsolete concept since the new Disney Spoof Wars movies) (Despite the fact I don't like females with male-like short hairstyle, feels simply odd. Which is difficult then to like the protagonist... Customisation options required!)
  
• No larger space ships to fly which would've been one of the unique things that made Rebel Galaxy special.
  
• Another dogfight sim, not that different from comparable games.
  
• Comic-like graphics (Too close to cell shading for my taste; Overall looking like Borderlands' post apocalyptic graphics-child... in space. Rly expected obsolet damage numbers to pop up any second in gameplay..)
  
• Yet another useless DRM plattform, next to steam, uplay, origin, Bethesda launcher, twitch launcher... Oh, please don't get me wrong: I don't like steam or any other forced DRM and I don't support centralisation in life critical sections, (not gaming) honestly. But this is just becoming rediculous. (Knowing DDG isn't the only dev team using non-popular launchers, it still doesn't turn this into a good idea). Having all of the mentioned above installed I'm declining any further ones.
  
• Again no co-op option for the sequel, which was highly asked for in Rebel Galaxy.
  
• Non-procedural generated maps/galaxies always mean that the replay value tends to hit zero.

Neutrals:

• There are dozends of ways to do this wrong with 3rd person and only one to do it right. Wouldn't place a bet here, but as RG did it right, you never know... thus neutral.
  
• Modding compatibility. Presumably not given, but unless proven it's not one of the "downs".

Remaining quesiton: Why would bother buying it, when there are others in exacly the same genre with more experience than DDG - no offence, but it's simply fact.

And a thing about the whitewashing ads: A simple look-alike-wing-commander-privateer isn't necesarily enough on second look, as long as it's not convincing the same way story wise. Btw Privateer wasn't as convincing as its prequels like WC3/4 in my opinion, but gosh not worth a taste war ~ nevermind.

In minor conclusion - never had a high expectation for the sequel in general, as long as they stood true to their former market gap. Which suprisingly they did not. As quite often, companies appear to fail self-reflect their success, as i.e. Bethesda still fail-thinks that it's their vanilla game experience that makes their franchises a success, while it's only the mods that drives their halfway-success into a big, long lasting green number. With DDG and Rebel Galaxy it's familiar. Dear devs, as only a few things kept to be the same in the sequel you might have apparently concluded, that your game's main success would've been:

- the music, (I for my part found that the option to implement your own music was awsomely, nearly unique to be honest)
- the species, (which were not outstanding better than in other space sims, but apparently obsolete to replace)
- Millennials' Han Solo's grandmother ex machina (Starting with, it's a strange choice to generally play a character in the past while knowing he/she's never going to die within the story... takes away some tension here. And non-general, yet seriously: She may've been a good character in RG, but a complete game about look-alike Luke's aunt Beru's lost sister in the past? Just.. huh? Was the character dev staff on holyday during this decision? What's happening?)
- Mining (Gladly at least that made it into a sequel to give it some more to do outside than Space-hack'n'slash...)

As you figure out quite fast RG didn't had its success because of the minor feature components above. RG felt more majestic, less dirty/worn out than the RGOutlaw clip did show. RG was about collectively bulked firepower to devestate your enemies, instead of piu-stream-bubble them to death. RG was about real tactics in combat, not just 'actio et reactio'. I kinda can't imagine that all of this was "by accident" part of RG, while being responsible for a major success in the indie corner the same time.

Total Conclusion:

1. A [grand radio station space sim], pretending to be a sequel, but just riding on the RG-airwaves story background/galaxy.
   
2. The real unique thing is to play a female protagonist in their fourties. Ratings pending.
   
3. Perhaps there's a way to get the radio station transmissions to listen to elswhere, if they're really that good...
   
4. Looks like a game I'd have loved to play back when I was 12 years old... or when hitting the midlife crisis, looking at some retro computer terminals...

Constructive critics:

• The biggest thing to consider: As it's too late for an (original) Rebel Galaxy-overhaul, the least thing you might wanna do is release a [Capital Ship update/DLC] with a boradside control system you had in RG.
  
• Cooperative MP (I know, most likely never happening to DDG game franchises, yet) would've been a novum on the market, as there are barely games in this franchise that would let you play a campaign with a friend. And hey - no excuses about "story doesn't work for two". In fact for co-op player it often doesn't matter if they play a sidekick wingman or a sidekick copilot, as long as the story and gameplay is entertaining with their companion.
  
• You claimed not to do in RG, so stop trying to get into a race now with experienced/well financed and equipped games like X-series, Star Citizen or (the more questionable) No Man's Sky. RG reflected its glory within its rare-to-be-found combat style in space games and the fact, that you can control a capital ship beyond arena-faced gameplay like Fractured Space is limited to. The circumstance that you tried to create a villain-like atmosphere in RGO doesn't replace the lost features half-way.

Left to say:
Well, it's still just a game, so especially no reason to become personal; take it with humor, no matter if you enjoy the game or prefer to enjoy another one: you all hopefully have a real and happy Christmas time and an enjoyable new year!

[Valerius]

Originally posted by Eisberg:

Originally posted by ƔALERIUS:

First of all...

you are looking at how things are right now and calling their reasoning for not making a dog fighting game with the first game is as being nonsense, and not looking at how things were in 2012 when they started to develop the game. You got hindsight advantage right now, these guys had to think about an unknow future. Their reasoning wasn't nonsense at all at the time they made that decision.

I was talking about they did not wanna get into conflict with those upcoming games then. How did they know in the far past, as they apparently didn't took this for argument with the sequel being in much higher competition about this genre than the last game. The wave for Space Sims did have a plus in numbers to be openly observed. I'm not specifically looking for this games in general and even I recognized an increase over time during that time since 2012.

Edit#2

Originally posted by Eisberg:

Originally posted by ƔALERIUS:

First of all...

They used Juno, which by the way was a character created even before the new Sta Wars films even started, because it made the most sense to them, to bring the game in line with the story as a series, and needing to be a prequel since they decided to do dog fighting this time.

Nevertheless a female Han Solo, didn't mention that she had a character similarity to sb from the new Disney Wars films. Aunt Beru as well is a classical SW character. I mentioned, that this general desperate attempts to force female characters into male concepts isn't necessary. Taking a Han Solo character and turning it into a woman doesn't make it something different or new. It's like a blonde, male Han Solo. Thus "obsolete". Doesn't matter if it's male or female, just I'd love to choose myself or at least able to customize the appearance myself. Hopefully you're able to release yourself from known archetypes throughout dialogue options. At least for the freedom of choice's sake. ;)

[Valerius]

Originally posted by Eisberg:

Originally posted by ƔALERIUS:

First of all...

Epic Games launcher isn't DRM. In fact Epic games launcher isn't going to be required to run the game at all. You'll just need the epic game launcher to download the game and to get updates and that is it, you can play the game without the launcher even running. This is true for all the games on Epic store that are not using Epic for MP servers.

As I uninstalled Epic Games Launcher some years ago, same as Glyph, I don't know how they're dealing with each game meanwhile, but in fact you have to stay connected with the launcher and it works like a DRM if it's got a MP mode... but allright, I got your point: It's somewhere between Steam and (non-DRM) GoG.

Originally posted by Eisberg:

Originally posted by ƔALERIUS:

First of all...

Travis Baldtree stated he never wants to do MP ever again. So yeah, he doesn't like making MP at all. So it didn't matter if it was a popular request, he simply doesn't like doing it so he wont.

From a Game Designer's POV I can understand this, as a small indie dev team might crack under that pressure, as it's a costly section. Don't know which personal reasons Baldtree had for it, but it doesn't matter at all as the result's the same. Of course from a Co-op loving POV this simply sounds infamous. No offence at all, just calm intel!


@Star Citizen
Don't know when you lastly played it, but (despite the fact that the trend atm is moving towards [games in endless delelopment]) I've had a pretty solid impression in Star Citizen early 2018. Of course it's still lacking quests/story ect, but the gameplay (Joystick&Throttle control) is the most promising ever since Wing Commander's success at its time. Star Citizen drives a concept of perfectionalism, which I can stick to, as I live for this myself at work. This is where quality is forged.
As much as I believe in Indie devs (with CIG being one of them) I'm not convinced that DDG could exceed former frontrunners. From an (mostly) objective POV I wished they did, because every serious indie dev success is a progress in game making politics against the publisher's tyranny. From a honest, personal POV I don't like RGO enough (yet?) to really care, sry. ;)

@Elite Dangerous
Well, I couldn't get warm with that title(s) to be honest, but yet it has a larger playerbase than RG ever had, while still being an indie dev as well. So apparently they have done something right in a space sim oriented playerbase's point of view. At least to my knowledge. In the end it personally doesn't matter to me, because while Elite Dangerous never was a thing for me, RG indeed was, which was the reason I formed a review in this topics boundaries about why RGO may not carry RG's "soul" to me anymore. The arguments may not suit everyone, but I think to have stated them reasonable enough to comprehend. Of course there may be missunderstandings, that has to be clarified in case. If so, just tell me!

{
Edit:
@X-saga
Same thing, short: Cross stepped into X3, (DVD collection back then) didn't feel that its concept is working out for me and discarded it. Since Wing Commander and some SW titles like X-Wing Alliance in the (80's -)90's I only played Freelancer for a longer time in this genre, which leads me to the conclusion, that Chris Roberts and I do have a familiar taste for space sims.

Explaining, why I was convinced about SC since I got in touch with the (later) gameplay with flying a Constellation. The physics, the tricky way to use gravity for a artistical slingshot-break menuver to land on the planet's other side were a great experience and investation.
}

What makes you think they are trying to force anything, let alone a desperate attempt at it?

Because character design in first place is a matter of archetype. You have the classical rogue-villain archetype that's clearly being filled out by diverse villains/semi-villains in movies or books. If we'd go into detail description, let's call it that i.e. "she's aligned to the same archetype Han Solo is created on". Which basically is a different way to nearly state the same point. Only difference is that it takes away the indicator that they copy-pasted Solo's character, which to me doesn't make a difference in general, because in the end she's not the taste of character I wanna play. Neither I love to watch my male figure behaving like macho-Solo. As said, it's a personal listing with arguments I wouldn't have used if I aimed for a mostly objective review. (Side info: I like Solo as a character in the original movies, don't get me wrong! I just don't wanna 'be' this guy)

From the general direction I now know you are pretty much a fan of RGO, which tells me you love the origin franchise to be changed into the well-known and populated space dog-fight genre. Which is totally allright, but same as you I cannot agree on some points, which is in both POV's undoubtly a matter of taste. ;) So I can live with the fact that you do have another impression.

You know I - for sure not the only person - had just so much games(in many other genres as well) on the screen, promising one hell of features and in the last 10-15 years 99% failed more than half of that promises. So one might excuse if I have to question some points and expose advertising smoothings/illusions. Means: Stop mightbe-hollow hyping ads and get us to the materia. I'll look at RGO from a distance, as the fact that I don't like it, doesn't mean I hate it. I don't hope for but as well don't generally exclude positive suprises.

So wishing you fun with it in advance, which you undoubtly will have as sure as you are about the game's promises. I for my part, if I understood all the features correctly, (please correct missunderstandings) found this isn't the Rebel Galaxy successor I hoped for.

[Inn0cent Bystander]

Apparently they went so "all-in" with the epic store, they're not even going to comment here...

[Valerius]

Mh, well think there's no need to intervene here, because they might pass this as "players with different opinion" that are aware of the facts, but won't adapt. As well they do have players defending the idea for them instead which is much more comfortable than to get a team member involved in a discussion. They mentioned repeadedly in their video about "how they wanted the game to be" related to both, RG and RGO, so with it they gave a hint, that they may not be interested in the community's opinion.

This can as well be confirmed looking again at the declined coop section or the ignored wish for a modding compatibility. There may be some technical backgrounds on both things, but at least for the first one the chairman simply said: "No, not gonna happen", apparently because it's not his taste of game feature. So he very likely isn't interested in additional suggestions, let alone discussing the new games course and features.

I don't know about any specific details that were changed/implemented in total because of the game's fan base's wished it to be, but there might have been some I'm just not aware of... ~ That's because I really liked RG, but never have been an omnipresent fanboy.

[Valerius]

Interesting indeed, but quite the same way it is a pity they did not for the prequel, which - we know - is a totally different game type.

You'd simply have to like the combat system it turned into, which I cannot, because story here and there, but I'm bored by typical dogfight sims. I maxed that experience out one gone time with the BSG Online mod in Freelancer. Nothing ever got nearly that good before and since. Awsome experience!

We've to experience still, what RGO is delivering in the end

[Ralli]

Looking forward for RGO.
Could be the game I am waiting for since years.
ED is great but not "only just for an hour or two", SC is a great Demo.....RGO might be a true successor of Privateer or Freelancer.

There´s only one Problem for me :
I love it looking 24/7 at girls tailends........in RL, not in Computergames