Domination would be more fun with Vassals

[Nexian]

Domination seems really snowball. Once you begin winning you just get there faster and faster.

On top of that it makes games between friends less likely to include war, as taking out their civ means they can no longer win (or even play if you completely wipe them).

Vassalage similar to civ 4 could let it be more dynamic and keep everyone involved.

1. Vassalage can be decided during surrender or forced by capturing someone's capital.
2. Vassals regain control of any cities you captured, but are unable to build new cities.
3. A Vassal cannot build or purchase military units if their military power is more than 50% of their controlling civ.
4. The controlling civ has full access to the vassal's terrirtory and ally status with a defensive pact.
5. The Vassal can still win, but their victory would also be awarded to the controlling civ.
6. If the controlling civ wins (not the vassal) the victory is only awarded to the controlling civ.
7. Other civs can offer a War of Liberation to a Vassal Civ. During this war the vassal loses ally and defensive pact status with the controlling civ. This war ends with a surrender and ceding of vassalage to either party, at which point the victor decides if the vassal is freed or becomes their vassal. Again, any captured Vassal cities are returned.
8. Capturing a civ's capital when they have a Vassal allows them to transfer an existing vassalage rather than vassal themselves.
9. A portion of a Vassal's Science, Culture and GPT is shared with the controlling civ.

The Domination victory could be changed to controlling 50% of civs as vassals for a certain number of turns.

Not a perfect idea, but it would let a lot more war happen and keep multiple civs involved.

[Slimane]

I only have bad memories of Vassalage in civ4. Like civilizations capitulating when they clearly have a chance and still have a massive economy/several cities. So all it did was made the game snowball even more.

Oh yeah, I forgot my favorite part. When you warred a civ, then the AI takes advantage of that to attack as well. You do almost everything but the AI refuses to capitulate to you. The turn after the Ai capitulates to the other AI that warred him but barely did anything just because he "Liked him" more.

Yeah, vassalage was complete crap in civ4.

[Nexian]

That's more of a balance concern though, the idea itself was pretty fun. The AI would definitely need to be more rational about it. But the AI right now isn't rational at all anyway :P

The main idea is just allowing civs to stay present and have a better chance of fighting a domination victory by teaming up with the vassals. I imagine the vassals would need to meet some criteria to be able to rebel against you too.

[ForgetNothing]

Creating a 'puppet state' out of the cities you conquer on another continent was really fun.

[paugus]

Originally posted by RonynCato (ಠ_ಠ):

Creating a 'puppet state' out of the cities you conquer on another continent was really fun.

Imo, not quite as fun as getting a city that you yourself get to control, considering how much better the typical human is at decision-making than the current AI. Most irritating part of puppeted cities was their derpy build queue they'd assign themselves.

[Yorkgrass]

Originally posted by paugus:

Originally posted by RonynCato (ಠ_ಠ):

Creating a 'puppet state' out of the cities you conquer on another continent was really fun.

Imo, not quite as fun as getting a city that you yourself get to control, considering how much better the typical human is at decision-making than the current AI. Most irritating part of puppeted cities was their derpy build queue they'd assign themselves.

It's always better to have more than one kinds of city status, if you like full controlable cities, you can always build as many as you like, but vassal states are different stories, they belong to you, and you don't give a crap about their problems, you can bully them to hell and they still have to obey you like you are the god. but if they join you, then you need to feed them, take care of their happiness.

[Despiser]

I liked the vassal system of Civ 4. Less micromanagement. I would often use them as buffer states against powerful Civs

[paugus]

Originally posted by Yorkgrass:

It's always better to have more than one kinds of city status

Not necessarily. First, quantity does not equate to quality. Having a bunch of different "city statuses" is not inherently desirable unless it adds something besides micromanaging tedium to the gameplay. Second, I'm fully aware of what a vassal state is, as my complaint about having an AI vassal was that their decision making ability is bad, so I'd rather destroy them entirely or take their city for myself. Finally, this is a super old post.

Originally posted by Despiser:

I liked the vassal system of Civ 4. Less micromanagement

Less micromanagement, more mismanagement. Not sure that's better.

[Yorkgrass]

Originally posted by paugus:

Originally posted by Yorkgrass:

It's always better to have more than one kinds of city status

Not necessarily. First, quantity does not equate to quality. Having a bunch of different "city statuses" is not inherently desirable unless it adds something besides micromanaging tedium to the gameplay. Second, I'm fully aware of what a vassal state is, as my complaint about having an AI vassal was that their decision making ability is bad, so I'd rather destroy them entirely or take their city for myself. Finally, this is a super old post.

Originally posted by Despiser:

I liked the vassal system of Civ 4. Less micromanagement

Less micromanagement, more mismanagement. Not sure that's better.

If you don't like vassal states, then destroy them by all means, it's not like they are non destroyable as your own cities? and civ is a game, there are a lot of people, if not majority, play it just for fun not to win, so seeing a vassal state suviving or suffering is one kind of fun. Me for example, I never want to destroy my home country, but sometimes they can be annoying, so vassel state is the only option, and there is another civilization which is my country's historical enemy, destroying them is very unsatisfying, so I want to caputilate them, and see them suffer. You see how people play games differently? one more extra option is always better than no options. If you don't like it then don't use it or even better turn it off like you can turn off R&F?