Sid Meier's Civilization VI

Sid Meier's Civilization VI

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The AI in this game is really stupid...
Yeah. Not exaggerating. For some reason I had some DLC disabled and I enabled them right? Well I decided to play as Indonesia. I put some new civs and vanilla ones in.

So all is going well until I meet Poland. And after ONE TURN this is what happens.
http://oi64.tinypic.com/25tco6s.jpg

This SHOULD not be a reason for a denouncement. Maybe a simple -2 or something in the relationship bar? Sure. But this is dumb.

Oh, and it seems that the AI never declare war on you solely unless it's a joint war via a trade between 2 civs. :/ Please fix this.
Last edited by KansasJayhawk98; Dec 10, 2017 @ 8:56pm
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Showing 1-15 of 17 comments
fakemon64 Dec 10, 2017 @ 9:11pm 
I disagree. Thats actually very 'human' of them. The ai civs all have agendas of their own and victories that they are seeking. If they werent so 'proactive' the game would be boring because they would all sit around waiting to react to what you(or other human players) do.

Things like that add drama and flavor to the game to make each playthrough a little different.
Last edited by fakemon64; Dec 10, 2017 @ 9:15pm
JEELEN Dec 11, 2017 @ 12:53am 
It mostly adds a lot of frustration as half the time you are clueless why anybody is being denounced. Denouncing a civ you've just met is pretty ridiculous, hidden agendas or no.

It seeems this has even dawned upon the designers, so they added the 'They just plain don't like you' expanation to the usual suspects.
Azrael Dec 11, 2017 @ 1:08am 
It's more that they dislike you because of their prime agenda, the one you'll always see. With Poland it's Faith Production.
If you produce way less Faith than Jadwiga, she'll denounce you.
JEELEN Dec 11, 2017 @ 1:27am 
Good for her. I haven't bought any DLC, so I don't have that problem. At any rate, you can always not select a civ. I never add Kongo in any game, as they're hopelessly OP.
leandrombraz Dec 11, 2017 @ 3:32am 
Did you send a delegation and opened your borders? How much first impression you got from her?

Originally posted by Azrael:
It's more that they dislike you because of their prime agenda, the one you'll always see. With Poland it's Faith Production.
If you produce way less Faith than Jadwiga, she'll denounce you.

The agenda usually don't trigger this soon after meeting a leader and the message would be about the agenda instead of this leader don't like you, since it would be the biggest penalty. OP probably got a bad first impression and did nothing to counter it.
DVLOS Dec 11, 2017 @ 6:29am 
My bigger issue is with "Warmongering" accumulation. You can mind your business and two or three AIs will decide they need to attack you now. YOu hold your ground and decide "ok now that you have attacked ME I'm going on the revenge path and wiping out the neighboring civ". Guess what. You are the warmonger .. not the AIs for attacking. So when you want to make nice (like say for culture vic) they won't do it.
leandrombraz Dec 11, 2017 @ 6:38am 
Originally posted by GWTW-DVLOS:
My bigger issue is with "Warmongering" accumulation. You can mind your business and two or three AIs will decide they need to attack you now. YOu hold your ground and decide "ok now that you have attacked ME I'm going on the revenge path and wiping out the neighboring civ". Guess what. You are the warmonger .. not the AIs for attacking. So when you want to make nice (like say for culture vic) they won't do it.

Don't go on the revenge path or do it minding warmongering, there's ways to control the penalty or even completely negate it.
fakemon64 Dec 11, 2017 @ 7:41am 
Dont forget the AI is trying to win this game too. Think about it like this, if you know you are going for a science victory, your biggest threat will be other civs going for science victories. So naturally you would see those civs as your rivals right? Not doing everything in your power to stop or slow them would only be detrimental to your cause.
Last edited by fakemon64; Dec 11, 2017 @ 7:42am
fakemon64 Dec 11, 2017 @ 7:45am 
Originally posted by JEELEN:
It mostly adds a lot of frustration as half the time you are clueless why anybody is being denounced. Denouncing a civ you've just met is pretty ridiculous, hidden agendas or no.

It seeems this has even dawned upon the designers, so they added the 'They just plain don't like you' expanation to the usual suspects.

"people just not liking people" sounds like a pretty realistic mechanic does it not? I dont like spiders. A spider has never given me a reason not to like them. But regardless, I just dont.
fakemon64 Dec 11, 2017 @ 7:48am 
Originally posted by GWTW-DVLOS:
My bigger issue is with "Warmongering" accumulation. You can mind your business and two or three AIs will decide they need to attack you now. YOu hold your ground and decide "ok now that you have attacked ME I'm going on the revenge path and wiping out the neighboring civ". Guess what. You are the warmonger .. not the AIs for attacking. So when you want to make nice (like say for culture vic) they won't do it.

Also, dont forget, events that took place "centuries" ago actually only happend like 30 turns ago. The ai doesnt forget thing in years but in turns. Just like you do. Those civs arent going to forget your 'revenge path' that involved you wiping out your neighbors' just because a few dozen turns have passed.

This isnt a simulation. it's a board game
Last edited by fakemon64; Dec 11, 2017 @ 7:50am
JEELEN Dec 11, 2017 @ 9:19am 
Originally posted by leandrombraz:
Don't go on the revenge path or do it minding warmongering, there's ways to control the penalty or even completely negate it.

Yes. Or I have a vassal which I wish to keep, but my neighbour Sparta decides it wants to conquer it. does this give me a 'casus belli'> No, it does not. Can I send units to my vassal? No, I cannot.
So, if I decide I want to keep my vassal my only choice is to DOW Sparta.

Guess what. Not only makes this ME the warmonger, I can't even declare a Formal War, and more than half the AI denounces me for wanting to protect my vassal. As I'm supposed to, being their suzerain.

Calling this 'a slight oversight on the part of the designers' is being kind.


Originally posted by fakemon64:
Originally posted by JEELEN:
It mostly adds a lot of frustration as half the time you are clueless why anybody is being denounced. Denouncing a civ you've just met is pretty ridiculous, hidden agendas or no.

It seeems this has even dawned upon the designers, so they added the 'They just plain don't like you' expanation to the usual suspects.

"people just not liking people" sounds like a pretty realistic mechanic does it not? I dont like spiders. A spider has never given me a reason not to like them. But regardless, I just dont.

You should start a debating club.
Last edited by JEELEN; Dec 11, 2017 @ 9:20am
leandrombraz Dec 11, 2017 @ 11:27am 
Originally posted by JEELEN:
Originally posted by leandrombraz:
Don't go on the revenge path or do it minding warmongering, there's ways to control the penalty or even completely negate it.

Yes. Or I have a vassal which I wish to keep, but my neighbour Sparta decides it wants to conquer it. does this give me a 'casus belli'> No, it does not. Can I send units to my vassal? No, I cannot.
So, if I decide I want to keep my vassal my only choice is to DOW Sparta.

Guess what. Not only makes this ME the warmonger, I can't even declare a Formal War, and more than half the AI denounces me for wanting to protect my vassal. As I'm supposed to, being their suzerain.

Calling this 'a slight oversight on the part of the designers' is being kind.

You get the Casus Belli if you denounce Sparta before or while they are attacking. The only issue is that you need to DoW before they conquer the CS, once they do it you lose the Casus Belli.

Formal wars are available 5 turns after you denounce a Civ. Even if somehow you manage to miss the Casus Belli, formal war is always an option. You can wait into they conquer the CS then go liberate it to reduce the DoW penalty. If there's any other city that Civ conquered, liberate those too. You can invite a Civ you care about for a joint war, which means zero warmongering with that Civ. You can make alliances to counter the penalty and prevent denunciations among other measures. It gets harder to pull off in later eras because the penalty increase considerably but that's by design, you should be more mindful of your actions in late game.

There's a lot that Firaxis need to improve in the system and a complete overall would be more than welcome, mostly on how unintuitive it's but there's a lot of options on how to approach this situations without getting completely destroyed by warmongering. My last game I declared 2 wars, conquered two cities, liberated 2 CSs, I had no meaningful warmongering, the little I had faded fast and I didn't get denounced even by the Civs I attacked.

Being able to gift units to CS and other Civs would be a nice addition, I definitely miss that mechanic.
Last edited by leandrombraz; Dec 11, 2017 @ 11:29am
DVLOS Dec 11, 2017 @ 12:00pm 
Originally posted by leandrombraz:
Originally posted by GWTW-DVLOS:
My bigger issue is with "Warmongering" accumulation. You can mind your business and two or three AIs will decide they need to attack you now. YOu hold your ground and decide "ok now that you have attacked ME I'm going on the revenge path and wiping out the neighboring civ". Guess what. You are the warmonger .. not the AIs for attacking. So when you want to make nice (like say for culture vic) they won't do it.

Don't go on the revenge path or do it minding warmongering, there's ways to control the penalty or even completely negate it.


I understand there are circumstances to negate/control it with the appropriate casus belli requirements -- however that's not what I mean. X Civ attacks me -- They should be subjected to warmonger penalties not I should I decide not to make peace with that Civ AFTER they declared war.

I sit back and am non hostile, making trade agreements until I'm backstabbed. Thus if X Civ loses 3 cities and half his nation for warring me, it's HIS penalties not mine. Civ 6 assigns me warmongering penalties for doing that. To keep those off my back, I should agree to peace whenever the AI tosses it out which is dumb.
XhenD Dec 11, 2017 @ 12:12pm 
Originally posted by GWTW-DVLOS:
Originally posted by leandrombraz:

Don't go on the revenge path or do it minding warmongering, there's ways to control the penalty or even completely negate it.


I understand there are circumstances to negate/control it with the appropriate casus belli requirements -- however that's not what I mean. X Civ attacks me -- They should be subjected to warmonger penalties not I should I decide not to make peace with that Civ AFTER they declared war.

I sit back and am non hostile, making trade agreements until I'm backstabbed. Thus if X Civ loses 3 cities and half his nation for warring me, it's HIS penalties not mine. Civ 6 assigns me warmongering penalties for doing that. To keep those off my back, I should agree to peace whenever the AI tosses it out which is dumb.

There are ways to avoid warmongering penalties while still taking their cities. You can just ask for their cities in a peace treaty.
leandrombraz Dec 11, 2017 @ 1:00pm 
Originally posted by GWTW-DVLOS:
Originally posted by leandrombraz:

Don't go on the revenge path or do it minding warmongering, there's ways to control the penalty or even completely negate it.


I understand there are circumstances to negate/control it with the appropriate casus belli requirements -- however that's not what I mean. X Civ attacks me -- They should be subjected to warmonger penalties not I should I decide not to make peace with that Civ AFTER they declared war.

I sit back and am non hostile, making trade agreements until I'm backstabbed. Thus if X Civ loses 3 cities and half his nation for warring me, it's HIS penalties not mine. Civ 6 assigns me warmongering penalties for doing that. To keep those off my back, I should agree to peace whenever the AI tosses it out which is dumb.


The problem with that from a mechanic perspective is that players would cheesy this kind of situation if there was no penalty. Provoke a Civ to attack you, conquer all their cities with zero repercussion. All Casus Belli that completely negate the penalty establish a limit to what you can conquer, to avoid this kind of exploit. Liberation, Reconquest and Protectorate, all limit you to the cities that you're going to liberate. I'm in favor of a reduced penalty if the other Civ attacked you, that increase as you conquer more cities (first city you get 50% reduction on the penalty, second city 25%, third city full penalty), that would be fair and harder to exploit.

The warmonger penalty is meant to be a consequence to expansion through war. Who declared war on who doesn't matter, other leaders don't want you to think it's okay to conquer other people territory, they don't want to be the next on your list.

If you want to punish the AI, you can kill their units, pillage tiles and districts, conquer a city, steal some territory (if you have a city that overlap with to the city you conquered, just swap the tiles to your city) then give it back in the peace deal , which will refund the penalty you got and leave them with a worse city (less population and tiles). If you want to take the city, pay attention on how much penalty it will give you, make sure you're friend/ally of the Civs you care about, see if you can balance the penalty with some positive modifirers, don't eat more than you can chew.
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Date Posted: Dec 10, 2017 @ 8:55pm
Posts: 17