Stupid Central Asian Comment

[Akboris]

"RUSSIANS, HUH! THERES BEEN MORE AND MORE LATELY, SIMPLE REALLY - EASIER TO PULL THE TRIGGER IF YOUR NOT FIGHTING THE SAME RACE" ??!!!!!!

What the ♥♥♥♥?

1) Central Asians arent the same 'race' lmao
2) More of a religious unity than racial
3) Is that really neccessary as dialogue?
4) Why is the writing in this game kinda poop like 'Let the legend come back to life'
5) There are more insightful things you could say about russians in Afghanistan

[[ACPL] Jon]

... what?

[Stellar Fox]

Originally posted by ACPL Jon:

... what?

[Stellar Fox]

are you just a mad ♥♥♥♥♥ whining about ingame dialog? just turn sound off if you are this sensitive

[Holografix]

Ocelot's comment was very insightful. It showed the Russian army using racism as a tactical tool to control their soliders. The Phantom Pain is about language, nationality, race and identity after all.

[Holografix]

Originally posted by Andrey Bandrey:

Originally posted by Holografix:

It showed the Russian army using racism as a tactical tool to control their soliders.

"Easier to pull the trigger if you're not fighting people who are ethnically related and share the same faith" does not mean "♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ hate those guys".

Also, not Russian. Soviet.

Originally posted by Mighty:

1) Central Asians arent the same 'race' lmao
2) More of a religious unity than racial
3) Is that really neccessary as dialogue?
5) There are more insightful things you could say about russians in Afghanistan

Kojima didn't do his research. The Afghanistan portion shows.

Originally posted by Mighty:

4) Why is the writing in this game kinda poop like 'Let the legend come back to life'

That's how it always was in MGS games.

The actual quote from Ocelot (from the english subtitles):

"A Soviet solider...A lot of them came from Central Asia before, but lately they've been using more and more Russians. Simple really - there's less hesitation to pull the trigger if they're not fighting their own race. Morbid cynicism, but it gets results. That's humanity for you."

Soviet army started using more and more Russians in Afghanistan because the Soviets figured their Central Asian soldiers would hesitate in the battlefield against the afghans. The Soviets used racism as a tool to organize and control soldiers because they figured the Russian soldiers wouldn't hesitiate when fighting against another race (afghans) and kill them easier.

[Akboris]

Originally posted by Holografix:

Originally posted by Andrey Bandrey:

"Easier to pull the trigger if you're not fighting people who are ethnically related and share the same faith" does not mean "♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ hate those guys".

Also, not Russian. Soviet.


Kojima didn't do his research. The Afghanistan portion shows.


That's how it always was in MGS games.

The actual quote from Ocelot (from the english subtitles):

"A Soviet solider...A lot of them came from Central Asia before, but lately they've been using more and more Russians. Simple really - there's less hesitation to pull the trigger if they're not fighting their own race. Morbid cynicism, but it gets results. That's humanity for you."

Soviet army started using more and more Russians in Afghanistan because the Soviets figured their Central Asian soldiers would hesitate in the battlefield against the afghans. The Soviets used racism as a tool to organize and control soldiers because they figured the Russian soldiers wouldn't hesitiate when fighting against another race (afghans) and kill them easier.

Or perhaps it was religious?

And is that really the reason why? How do you know it isnt because the soviets couldnt rely on outer noobies and thus began to bring in seasoned mainland troops instead?

Some dialogue in the game from Russians suggests that many soviet soldiers deserted.
Not sure on the historical accuracy of it though.

[abcd]

Originally posted by Andrey Bandrey:

Being able to tell apart races is not racism.

Race is a construct. It isn't a definable attribute, it's just an excuse to divide people. Put all the Slavs in one box, put the Belarus in another. Throw one of these boxes in the sea, put the other one on the throne. What it says on the box is completely irrelevant, the only important thing is that people are put in boxes.

So when you create a story about who's in what box and why, that's racism. Understanding the racial heirarchy to a degree necessary to live in a racist society is also mildly racist, and that's a big part of why racism is so sinister: you need to accept it as real, as based on some implicit universal order, in order to survive within it.

Originally posted by Andrey Bandrey:

If a soldier doesn't hesitate, it's often because he is either a psycopath, or because he has no real choice.

Or they're properly trained. Y'know, maybe an experienced professional, somebody who has internalized their justification for killing? They weren't all poorly-trained conscripts freshly peeled off of the Soviet bootheel, too broken to remember right and wrong. They were just taught it was right to kill certain people, and like any reasonable person they listened. Because that's what survival was made to look like.

The actual amount of racism towards the Afghans in the 80s RSFSR was less than the level of racism towards Middle Easterners in the USA right now.

Techniques have advanced in the last 40 years, it is true. Soviet cultural output was always a little bit complicated, so they never developed technology like Hollywood.

But it'd be a stretch to say that the USA is using racism in its war effort, either.

But...today, right now, Russia spreads virulent racist propaganda ahead of their military incursions. Usually on the internet. Look at Ukraine.

USA might not be using racism in its war effort it is and has done so for hundreds of years, in literally every conflict it's ever engaged in, but Israel certainly is. So is Hamas. Libya. Darfur. Everyone on both sides of every conflict uses racism as a justification for their actions, and having a justification is all a soldier really needs to pull the trigger. The more ingrained that justification is, the easier it is to do.

anyway I tried to look up information or examples of anti-arabic soviet propaganda but it's all conveniently missing from the internet and I don't feel like searching the library over this. so I wonder if you've done your research yourself.

[abcd]

???? the onlything I find confusing here is your quotation structure.

you're denying that race had a part in soviet propaganda in the era, and I'm saying that racism is an integral part of any and every propaganda effort streching back for at least the last two hundred years arond the globe. whether you're pro-<race> or anti-<race> it's still a divisionary tactic meant to spread or take advantage of enmity between 'racial' identities.

It's a completely fictional interpretaion of the world, one steeped in a history of long-dead empires who created these ancient fictions for the same reasons that we repeat them today.

I'm not going to get into a detailed argument about the ethnic composition of the mujahadeen, but suffice to say: Afghanistan is a complicated place.

the situation in afghanistan (a planned coup leading to direct USSR involvement "in support" of the new regime, often preceded by propaganda blitz for a few years beforehand,) was identical to the current one in Ukraine. This is similar to how Gulf War I and II were identical, and occurred for the same basic reasons. This is similar to every military conflict where propaganda is used (all of them, as you imply): if it wasn't already about race, it will quickly become about race.

I don't care what the propaganda focused on or how it accomplished its goals, it's as you say "having a way with words." Often of a non-consensual variety. In the Soviet sense, it usually means creating an enormously large, obvious, clumsy blind spot where information has been censored. One that literally anyone with a book can point out, if they want to be executed.

Also, thank you for complimenting my eloquence I am very proud of it and work hard to maintain it. You are putting the cart before the horse with the rest of the discussion though, and being rather snakey about it, so I hope your backhanded compliment wasn't an attempt to cover my mouth?

[abcd]

Originally posted by Andrey Bandrey:

No, I'm not denying it. You can see in my poster that the USSR used appeals to race to build the idea of Comintern. But race in the Soviet-Afghan war was only as relevant as it was in the Vietnam war, or the war in Afghanistan right now. So, mostly irrelevant and inconsequential.

Except it helps those GIs pull the trigger, doesn't it? That's the least inconsequential part of the whole engagement. It's literally the most important thing. That's what propaganda is all about: helping you pull the trigger. Getting Your Mind Right. The all-knowing ever-present hand of Big Boss enclosing your hand and pulling the trigger for you: "It's ok; there was no other way." Cold comfort is still comfortable, especially in a hot zone.

Originally posted by Themself:

It's a completely fictional interpretaion of the world, one steeped in a history of long-dead empires who created these ancient fictions for the same reasons that we repeat them today.

Originally posted by Andrey Bandrey:

Not quite.

Do tell.

Originally posted by Andrey Bandrey:

I don't claim to fully understand it, either. It doesn't help that propaganda on both sides tries to make their narrative as simple as possible to understand, while making the truth as hard as possible to follow.

Agreed. But Russian Internet Brigades entered the public sphere specifically because of Ukraine. Their hand in what occurred is undeniable. If this were the cold war, I wonder what the US would have done in response?

Originally posted by Andrey Bandrey:

Originally posted by Themself:

I don't care what the propaganda focused on or how it accomplished its goals, it's as you say "having a way with words." Often of a non-consensual variety. In the Soviet sense, it usually means creating an enormously large, obvious, clumsy blind spot where information has been censored. One that literally anyone with a book can point out, if they want to be executed.

Also, thank you for complimenting my eloquence I am very proud of it and work hard to maintain it. You are putting the cart before the horse with the rest of the discussion though, and being rather snakey about it, so I hope your backhanded compliment wasn't an attempt to cover my mouth?

What are you even talking about?

Which part was confusing? 'All of it' is a very, very lazy answer.

[abcd]

Originally posted by Andrey Bandrey:

Originally posted by Themself:

Except it helps those GIs pull the trigger, doesn't it? That's the least inconsequential part of the whole engagement. It's literally the most important thing. That's what propaganda is all about: helping you pull the trigger. Getting Your Mind Right. The all-knowing ever-present hand of Big Boss enclosing your hand and pulling the trigger for you: "It's ok; there was no other way." Cold comfort is still comfortable, especially in a hot zone.

Has nothing to do with anything.

So, in a military conflict: soldiers actually pulling the triggers, specifically when their barrel is pointed at an enemy combatant and not above their head, has nothing to do with anything?

I think it has everything to do with everything.

Originally posted by Andrey Bandrey:

Originally posted by Themself:

Agreed. But Russian Internet Brigades entered the public sphere specifically because of Ukraine. Their hand in what occurred is undeniable. If this were the cold war, I wonder what the US would have done in response?

Again, nothing to do with anything.

Oh, now I wonder!

[Baylock]

Originally posted by Andrey Bandrey:

Originally posted by Themself:

Except it helps those GIs pull the trigger, doesn't it? That's the least inconsequential part of the whole engagement. It's literally the most important thing. That's what propaganda is all about: helping you pull the trigger. Getting Your Mind Right. The all-knowing ever-present hand of Big Boss enclosing your hand and pulling the trigger for you: "It's ok; there was no other way." Cold comfort is still comfortable, especially in a hot zone.

Has nothing to do with anything.

Originally posted by Themself:

Agreed. But Russian Internet Brigades entered the public sphere specifically because of Ukraine. Their hand in what occurred is undeniable. If this were the cold war, I wonder what the US would have done in response?

Again, nothing to do with anything.

"I dont understand where you're coming from so I'm just going to dismiss it all on the basis that if I don't understand it it must be irrelevant"

[Stellar Fox]

OP you are just too ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ stupid to comprehend even a line of what everyone is saying, accept your brain is not big enough for this kind of stuff and unsubscribe from the thread.

[Holografix]

Originally posted by Andrey Bandrey:

Not at all what's going on in Ukraine. It is an incredibly complex issue. If you've never been to Russia and Ukraine...

One thing is certain @Andrey Bandrey

You've Never Been To Konotop because you are boring at parties.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohqQJU3PSdM

[abcd]

Originally posted by Andrey Bandrey:

It has nothing to do with this discussion or Soviet propaganda. I was talking, mind you, about actual propaganda, not the supposed effects of supposed propaganda that you can't find because it's "conveniently missing" because it never actually existed.

Are the supposed effects of this supposed propaganda supposed, or is the propanganda itself supposed? You're denying too many things at once, it's highly suspicious.

Originally posted by Andrey Bandrey:

The fact that it's easier to (hypothetically) kill someone of a different race, in the specific context of the Soviet-Afghan war, has very little to do with racism, and nothing to do with propaganda. "That's humanity for you."

(hypothetically)? What are you taking, and where do I get it? "That's humanity for you,"


новичок. Or would you prefer an english insult, mr. mofo...?

[Holografix]

Originally posted by Themself:

новичок. Or would you prefer an english insult, mr. mofo...?

Another thing is certain @Andrey Bandrey

You should Return to Kamchatka.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ts4RrzLbvYs