Why do people pick draw cards?

[CrazyIvan]

Every so often when I'm playing online I'll end up drawing a card and Nice Present, Princess's Privelege or Passionate Research will end up in my hand. This always confuses me as it just seems that logically speaking you'd never want to pick these cards. They honestly seem a bit like newbie traps in my eyes and the concept of draw cards in 100% OJ in general seems a bit flawed.

Before I go on, being able to draw more cards in 100% OJ is obviously far more often than not a good thing, but you have to remember that it's a good thing for everyone else as well. Because of the way deck building works in 100% OJ it seems to me that some people are overlooking the huge downside of picking a draw card.

When you pick your 10 cards at the start of the game these are added to the 10 cards that the other 3 players have chosen with 8 Hyper cards being added for a total of 48 cards. EVERY player then draws from this deck. At almost all points in the game you are more likely to draw a card that you didn't pick and the cards you did pick more likely to be drawn by an opponent. So if you pick a draw card it's about 3 times more likely that someone else is going to draw it giving them a large advantage. Meanwhile I haven't picked any draw cards and have picked 10 cards that are more useful to myself than others, with someone elses draw card in my hand feeling slightly confused as to why they've given me such a huge advantage.

I've seen people talk about 'card reliance' and how some characters are more 'card reliant' so they need draw cards to work. In my opinion this is false. To a certain degree all characters are 'card reliant'. If you battle me and I have a card to play and you don't, it doesn't really matter which characters we're playing, in most cases I have an advantage - so by picking draw cards you are likely giving an advantage to one of your opponents around 75% of the time.

Along with 'card reliance' I see people talk about 'Hyper reliance' which is when people start picking Passionate Research to make up for their 'Hyper reliant' character. Though some Hypers are definitely better than others, almost every character will happily take the chance of being able to draw their Hyper card and even if their Hyper isn't that good they'll have taken a number of Hyper cards out of the deck, which then makes it even less likely for you to draw your own Hyper so again, around 75% of the time you're giving one of your opponents an advantage by picking this card.

So as the title says, why do people pick draw cards? It just seems silly to pick one and hope you draw it and no one else does when the odds are hugely stacked against you. It is my honest opinion that you should NEVER pick them. I feel that any draw card in 100% OJ needs some sort of downside other than just level requirement and cost to make them more situationally useful. Straight draw cards don't work in this game.

Edit: I'll just add another quick question to add to my argument. If you pick a draw card and I don't what advantage does that give you over me?

[mimizukari]

two for one... concept of any draw card in any game, you thin the deck because you want to get to your key cards or hypers

[Rio]

Playing peat, one away from a person, a hyper in hand, one other card, and a draw two. Play draw two and hyper person.

Draw cards are good if you want the deck to go through a lot faster too so limit 1 cards or hypers renew faster.

[CrazyIvan]

Originally posted by Plutia:

two for one... concept of any draw card in any game, you thin the deck because you want to get to your key cards or hypers

And that's worth the disadvantage of 3/4 times giving one of you opponents draw advantage? I really don't think so. Thinning the deck is not specifically an advantage to yourself either since everyone is drawing from the same deck.

Originally posted by Promise:

Playing peat, one away from a person, a hyper in hand, one other card, and a draw two. Play draw two and hyper person.

While it is hypothetically nice to have that situation if you are the only person picking draw cards the odds are stacked against you.

[mimizukari]

it doesn't matter who gets the card, the point is you build the deck for cards beneficial to your character so you know what's in the deck and attempt to draw into them.

[darko]

The alternative is the "burn it all down" approach where you pick crap cards so that both you and your opponents cry when you draw them instead of something good.

It is good to think about the consequences of what you pick, like how Dash has the potential to hurt offensive characters more than it helps as a result of giving your opponents an escape. However many times the benefits of you drawing into such cards outweighs the potential consequences, and that's what makes them wind up picked in the first place.

[Monsieur Crow]

Originally posted by Rook:

Every so often when I'm playing online I'll end up drawing a card and Princess's Privelege will end up in my hand.

Joke post.

[Iridium]

Well, even from a purely defensive perspective, Nice Present can be used to flush out cards under the effect of Melting Memories (and Princess' Privilege can be used to keep cards in player's inventories under the same effect.) Likewise, both cards synergize very well with Peat as stated earlier.

Nice Present, generally speaking, is not strictly a tool for card reliant characters. Rather, it is a tool for characters who have a large number of common cards that benefit them disproportionately. Sherry and Fernet are completely okay with Nice Present, because not only can they both make decks that benefit them extremely efficiently, they both benefit fairly well from virtually all common cards. Hime, on the other hand, doesn't really get maximum benefit from any card in the deck due to her average stat spread, so it's hard to get a deck to benefit her more than other players -- so she doesn't really want Nice Present all that much.

It seems like these two elements kind of go hand-in-hand, but Fernet isn't really a character I'd call "card reliant" since she has a very good stat spread even in a game where no cards are drawn. However, this spread also means that she benefits a lot from most of the game's cards and makes her even better when they're involved.

[Knto]

I never pick any draw-card cards, but passionate research can be useful if you really need an hyper and are a character that heavily depends on the hyper (or can pull off an awesome thing out of it)

As someone who plays a lot with QPD I can tell you that Nice Present can be useful, but I never put it on my deck (it's full of pudding anyway)

[UnLuckyCat]

A more heavily card reliant character would be opting to land on draw panels more often, so if there are also extra draw cards then they especially cycle through more of the deck themselves. Those who do just fine without as many cards will more readily avoid draw panels for an encounter or bonus instead.

There are also characters that simply do not function whatsoever without their hyper card, like Krila, so even if it means other players also get more cards and hypers as well, it's better than neither getting any. If you'd rather nobody get hypers, then you would simply not play Krila in the first place.

Of course even characters with terrible or mediocre hypers can deny others their own through Passionate Research, either plain discarding them or converting them with Mimic. But they wouldn't bring those themselves because it's more likely to help someone else. The logic goes both ways.

Draw effects are not so neutral as you might think. Certain characters need to fish for very specific combinations of cards to be effective, others need to get momentum rolling with a constant flow of cards, while some can be perfectly content to sit on one card the whole game and can't throw away the rest fast enough.

And as mentioned earlier, if your core cards are 1 per deck, then the best use for your remaining slots would be anything that can cycle through the deck to flush out all the trash rather than wondering what else could be of mild benefit (or detriment to your opponent) instead.

[winter wave]

people bring draw cards because they want to have more cards in their hand
it also helps if you don't have any cards and want to have cards in your hand right now because your luck with draw panels is bad

passionate research is cool because it gives you hypers sometimes and even if you don't want hypers seeing the next three cards is something you might want to know unless you're manager and don't care and can't use cards anyway

i've seen someone say before that they like using princess's privilege as a dummy card for peat and that's okay because they get a full hand from no hand and they have a chance of pulling their hyper and it's also hard to use so it'll stick around and your hyper gets powered up if you let cards stick around

[UnLuckyCat]

Well yes, drawing more cards is obviously a good thing, but that's exactly the issue. Anyone who draws cards has that advantage, and those who personally bring draw cards have less space to influence the central deck with other cards.

My argument is that draw cards themselves influence the deck in favor of certain characters. One obvious distinction is that only you can draw your own hyper. Therefore, anyone with a good hyper gets more value out of the average card draw.

[winter wave]

wait am i supposed to be arguing something
i just posted my thoughts on draw cards

[UnLuckyCat]

nah, no arguing, just pointing out this part of the OP in particular:

Originally posted by Rook:

Before I go on, being able to draw more cards in 100% OJ is obviously far more often than not a good thing, but you have to remember that it's a good thing for everyone else as well. Because of the way deck building works in 100% OJ it seems to me that some people are overlooking the huge downside of picking a draw card.

[Ren]

POT OF GREED?!

[CrazyIvan]

Originally posted by UnLuckyCat:

nah, no arguing, just pointing out this part of the OP in particular:

Originally posted by Rook:

Before I go on, being able to draw more cards in 100% OJ is obviously far more often than not a good thing, but you have to remember that it's a good thing for everyone else as well. Because of the way deck building works in 100% OJ it seems to me that some people are overlooking the huge downside of picking a draw card.

Yeah, a lot of you seem to be missing this point. I fully understand that some characters definitely benefit from draw cards, but a lot of you are assuming that by picking a draw card that you will automtically end up drawing into it at some point and ignoring the downside of when someone else draws it.

I'll ask the question that I added to the edit again. If you pick a draw card and I don't what advantage does that give you over me? If I have tailored my 10 cards to suit me more (or be bad for everyone else as someone pointed out) how do you have an advantage over me by only picking 9 cards and a draw card that someone else is likely to draw. Draw benefits ALL characters it doesn't matter if it benefits some more than others.

Originally posted by Monsieur Crow:

Originally posted by Rook:

Every so often when I'm playing online I'll end up drawing a card and Princess's Privelege will end up in my hand.

Joke post.

To be fair I don't actually see this one much, I was just trying to make a point.

Anyway thanks for the replies and discussion, keep it coming.